Ye Billiard Den

1 Pocket Ghost

1 Pocket Ghost

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This pic that I took and posted is for Yobagua, Gulfport Doc, Jay, Keith, John Henderson, and anybody else who ever hung at Ye Billiard Den back in the day - thought you guys would enjoy seeing this old piece of nostalgia.....

.....I bought this t-shirt there in 1968 when I was hanging there, and I still have it ! ( although I sure as hell can't fit into it anymore ) - I'll bet none of you guys have seen one for 40 years........I've got a coupla more special old pool shirts/t's that I'll post in another thread.
 

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1 Pocket Ghost said:
This pic that I took and posted is for Yobagua, Gulfport Doc, Jay, Keith, John Henderson, and anybody else who ever hung at Ye Billiard Den back in the day - thought you guys would enjoy seeing this old piece of nostalgia.....

.....I bought this t-shirt there in 1968 when I was hanging there, and I still have it ! ( although I sure as hell can't fit into it anymore ) - I'll bet none of you guys have seen one for 40 years........I've got a coupla more special old pool shirts/t's that I'll post in another thread.
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My all time favorite poolroom. Celebrities, players, ACTION!, rich suckers, etc. etc. It seemed like everyone came through there at one time or another. I remember Phil Spector's appearances there. Pancho corraled him quick.

I met and played with James Caan, Don Johnson and Telly Savalas in there. Don Adams wouldn't play and neither would Jim Morrison. Omar Sharif made one appearance with John "The Dancer" Brescia. Jack Ackerman was the composer for Judy Garland. He came in her car one day, and she waited outside. She wouldn't come in. He told me she was too shy, and thought it was a place for guys only. I looked in the parking lot and there was a car with darkened windows. Never saw her.

She died a year or two later. Jack wrote a great screenplay about her and showed it to me one night. It was a fabulous story. I don't know if it ever got made. He died about five years later himself. He loved to play pool with me. He would come into the "Den" and ask for me. I would give him the eight and the break for $50 or a $100 (a set).

All just ancient memories now. It seems like another lifetime ago.
 
jay helfert said:
My all time favorite poolroom. Celebrities, players, ACTION!, rich suckers, etc. etc. It seemed like everyone came through there at one time or another. I remember Phil Spector's appearances there. Pancho corraled him quick.

I met and played with James Caan, Don Johnson and Telly Savalas in there. Don Adams wouldn't play and neither would Jim Morrison. Omar Sharif made one appearance with John "The Dancer" Brescia. Jack Ackerman was the composer for Judy Garland. He came in her car one day, and she waited outside. She wouldn't come in. He told me she was too shy, and thought it was a place for guys only. I looked in the parking lot and there was a car with darkened windows. Never saw her.

She died a year or two later. Jack wrote a great screenplay about her and showed it to me one night. It was a fabulous story. I don't know if it ever got made. He died about five years later himself. He loved to play pool with me. He would come into the "Den" and ask for me. I would give him the eight and the break for $50 or a $100 (a set).

All just ancient memories now. It seems like another lifetime ago.
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FWIW I like hearing your memories. They are always interesting.

BVal
 
That was on Sunset Blvd, right? I used to play there once in a while around 1974. I remember Crazy Bruce, Brookly Butch, and Cuban Joe. There was always something going on there. I got my first decent cue there, pawning a guy's Gina - his name was Cherokee and he needed the cash to rent a recording studio to try to make a record.

Chris
 
1 Pocket Ghost said:
This pic that I took and posted is for Yobagua, Gulfport Doc, Jay, Keith, John Henderson, and anybody else who ever hung at Ye Billiard Den back in the day - thought you guys would enjoy seeing this old piece of nostalgia.....

.....I bought this t-shirt there in 1968 when I was hanging there, and I still have it ! ( although I sure as hell can't fit into it anymore ) - I'll bet none of you guys have seen one for 40 years........I've got a coupla more special old pool shirts/t's that I'll post in another thread.
Click to expand...

Ghost, while I stopped in there from time to time over the years, I never played much in the Den. One of the guys I did play was Brooklyn Butch. I was playing him some $5 a game & was $15 up. A friend came in and asked me what I was doing and I told him I was stalling and up three games. He said if I won another game or two Butch was liable to knock me out and turn the table over on me. Butch got in stroke and won the next three games and we were friends ever since. They had another Billiard Den in El Monte, not far from Five Points Bowl. That is where I first met & played Gabe "The Mailman" Girardi, a long time one pocket player. John Henderson
 
jay helfert said:
Jack Ackerman was the composer for Judy Garland. He came in her car one day, and she waited outside. She wouldn't come in. He told me she was too shy, and thought it was a place for guys only. I looked in the parking lot and there was a car with darkened windows. Never saw her.

She died a year or two later. Jack wrote a great screenplay about her and showed it to me one night. It was a fabulous story. I don't know if it ever got made. He died about five years later himself. He loved to play pool with me. He would come into the "Den" and ask for me.
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I thought the Den was a great room, and there were a lot of stars, and action; however the prices were a little to rich for a struggling musician in those days, so I mostly hung around the lesser rooms, like Celebrity Billiards, Mr. Pockets, and Chopsticks out in the Valley.

It's interesting that you mentioned Judy Garland. I'd played a show with her at the Cincinnati Gardens in 1965. She was one of the truly great performers. That night though she couldn't make the second act due to "sickness". She'd caught a sudden case of bottle flu...

Doc
 
TATE said:
That was on Sunset Blvd, right? I used to play there once in a while around 1974. I remember Crazy Bruce, Brookly Butch, and Cuban Joe. There was always something going on there. I got my first decent cue there, pawning a guy's Gina - his name was Cherokee and he needed the cash to rent a recording studio to try to make a record.

Chris
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It was on Santa Monica at Sweetzer. Cherokee also went by Joshua Stone and other names. Kind of an interesting character who resurfaces every few years. Use caution is all I have to say.
 
jrhendy said:
Ghost, while I stopped in there from time to time over the years, I never played much in the Den. One of the guys I did play was Brooklyn Butch. I was playing him some $5 a game & was $15 up. A friend came in and asked me what I was doing and I told him I was stalling and up three games. He said if I won another game or two Butch was liable to knock me out and turn the table over on me. Butch got in stroke and won the next three games and we were friends ever since. They had another Billiard Den in El Monte, not far from Five Points Bowl. That is where I first met & played Gabe "The Mailman" Girardi, a long time one pocket player. John Henderson
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Believe it or not, I ran into Butch last year. He was doing well, looked exactly the same, stays fit, and still is a railbird and quite a character. Butch's bark was a lot worse than his bite. I guess growing up in Brooklyn makes someone a tough guy.

Chris
 
gulfportdoc said:
I thought the Den was a great room, and there were a lot of stars, and action; however the prices were a little to rich for a struggling musician in those days, so I mostly hung around the lesser rooms, like Celebrity Billiards, Mr. Pockets, and Chopsticks out in the Valley.

It's interesting that you mentioned Judy Garland. I'd played a show with her at the Cincinnati Gardens in 1965. She was one of the truly great performers. That night though she couldn't make the second act due to "sickness". She'd caught a sudden case of bottle flu...

Doc
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I played in all those places too. I never worried too much about the "time", because I always made sure that paying the time was part of the bet. You know "loser pays the time". Celebrity Billiards was upstairs at Santa Monica and Vine. I made my first "big" score there playing Rudy, a high line pimp and a gentleman pool player. I gave him 8-6 for $50 a game, a big bet for me in the 60's. I won $600 the first night and $400 the second. I thought I was rich. I was living nearby in a $25 a week apartment, a very nice efficiency unit.

Mr. Pockets was at Sixth and Manhattan. It later became a Billiard Den. The gypsies played there for big money, but you couldn't get into the game. Even Cooney couldn't find a way in. I played Brian in there and he gave me 9-7 and I couldn't get there. I used to play old man Harry $5 One Pocket. I couldn't win and neither could anyone else. But I learned a million good moves from him.

Chopstix was on Victory Blvd. in the Valley. I beat Paul Hartley in there and then let him stay at my apartment. He returned the favor by ripping me off and running back to Ohio. I saw him many years later and he was VERY apologetic and contrite. I no longer wanted to murder him. I also played Popcorn for the first time and beat him and then he sic'ed Ray Booth on me. I lost to him. I played Bill Cress in there and a few others. It was a tough spot with many good players. All trying to trap the owner who had big bucks.

The guy who owned the place was the best in the world at using two cues and cradling the cue ball and letting it run up and down the cue to make balls. Hence the name Chopstix. Jimmy Caras was great at this too. Nicky Varner can also do it.
 
The Climax

Did anybody ever go into The Climax, the all-night members only club in Hollywood? The joint had an all night movie theater, disco, two
4 and 1/2 x 9's, a giant game room, and about 100 gorgeous women, all free except for admission which was $7. They had foam rubber floors in the theater where you could lay down, watch the movie and make out. The disco had a balcony with foam floors also, no chairs. Just lay on the floor and do your thing. It was pitch black up there, but the lights would come back on about every two minutes to stifle any real serious action.

the Beard
 
TATE said:
Believe it or not, I ran into Butch last year. He was doing well, looked exactly the same, stays fit, and still is a railbird and quite a character. Butch's bark was a lot worse than his bite. I guess growing up in Brooklyn makes someone a tough guy.

Chris
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I think you may be wrong on this one Chris. Butch's bite may have been worse than his bark from all of the stories I have heard. He is one guy no one wants to cross. I know him and Cecil had a long running feud and Cecil opened fire on him on at least one occasion and the bullets didn't deter Butch from chasing Cecil out of the pool hall with the bullets flying. (They are friendly with each other now after many years of wild pursuit.)

I ran into him also last year and he is very mild mannered if he likes you but I have also seen him running a pool hall and cleaning the place out because of his attempts to get into fights.

Wayne
 
Man you brought back a lot of memories Ghost. Thank you. I seen some of the greatest play there. I was in there every night. I worked down the street in a all nite bookstore. The first in LA selling Porno. I worked the graveyard and hung out in the Den before work. My good friend Freddy from Hawaii bought it and it went downhill. The whole block was an action block. All kinds of scams up and down the street. You could buy anything on order and get anything you wanted. Lot of the deals were made in the Raincheck room across the street. And lots of Gangsters hung out at the night club on the corner of Santa Monica and Crescent Heights. I got into town and my intro was a guy putting a gun into a mouth of another guy who owed him some money. This was in a public joint.
Saw Danny Diliberto in action as well as Ronnie Allen, Marvin Henderson, Jimmy Moore, Bernie Schwartz, Gene Nagy, Philly Joe Veasey, Lenny Moore,Ed Kelly, Jerry the Greek and his dog King, Hawaiian Brian, Kim Davenport, Cecil, Jimmy Rempe, as well as all kinds of hustlers. It was 24 hour action.
Brooklyn Butch was a real nice guy if he liked you but was a terror if you got on his nerves. Lucky he and I got along and we went out to eat a couple of late nite breakfasts. All these guys had a lot of stories and it was a part of my education.
Funny I passed by not to long ago and it was a gay joint called Hamburger Mary's. Kind of ironic since it was such a place of macho sparing every nite.
 
yobagua said:
Man you brought back a lot of memories Ghost. Thank you. I seen some of the greatest play there. I was in there every night. I worked down the street in a all nite bookstore. The first in LA selling Porno. I worked the graveyard and hung out in the Den before work. My good friend Freddy from Hawaii bought it and it went downhill. The whole block was an action block. All kinds of scams up and down the street. You could buy anything on order and get anything you wanted. Lot of the deals were made in the Raincheck room across the street. And lots of Gangsters hung out at the night club on the corner of Santa Monica and Crescent Heights. I got into town and my intro was a guy putting a gun into a mouth of another guy who owed him some money. This was in a public joint.
Saw Danny Diliberto in action as well as Ronnie Allen, Marvin Henderson, Jimmy Moore, Bernie Schwartz, Gene Nagy, Philly Joe Veasey, Lenny Moore,Ed Kelly, Jerry the Greek and his dog King, Hawaiian Brian, Kim Davenport, Cecil, Jimmy Rempe, as well as all kinds of hustlers. It was 24 hour action.
Brooklyn Butch was a real nice guy if he liked you but was a terror if you got on his nerves. Lucky he and I got along and we went out to eat a couple of late nite breakfasts. All these guys had a lot of stories and it was a part of my education.
Funny I passed by not to long ago and it was a gay joint called Hamburger Mary's. Kind of ironic since it was such a place of macho sparing every nite.
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I'm starting to remember you now. The guy who worked in the bookstore. I may have even gone in there once and saw you there, right? I wasn't too much into porno or anything else in those days. Even girls didn't have a big allure for me. All I wanted to do was play pool day and night. I was one sick dude.

The all night club on the corner was Theodores. It had signed photos of all the stars on the walls. We would sometimes go there after the Den closed at 2AM. Most of the time, I went right on down to Tournament Billiards on Washington at La Cienega. It was an all night joint with mostly black hustlers. They had a private room in back with two tables and the big action went on in there. I rarely played there, just watched. Cecil, Billy Kenyon, Rags, Marvin, The Iceman, Black Nate, Rush Out Red. All strong players.

Either that or I was getting high with old man Bugsy and Sean. We used to cruise Hollywood late at night in Bugsy's Caddy, looking for dames or any kind of fun. Sean and I always had our cues with us, in case a game came up anywhere along the way. Bugsy had a nose for action and steered us pretty good a few times. He was supposed to be mob connected, but I never asked him about it. I knew to keep my mouth shut.

He liked me and that was good enough. He even had me up to his penthouse apartment in the Hills a few times. A beautiful place and there was always a gorgeous girl or two sharing it with him. And he must have been in his 60's then. He loved to get high and he loved to play pool. If he ran into a tough game at the Den, he would get me to play the guy and give me a hundred bucks and say go play him. I always won for him, and believe it or not, he never took ANY of the winnings. He would just say, "Gimme my hundred". He just wanted to see the guy get beat.

I think he had real deep pockets. I was very sad when Bugsy died. He was a blast to be around. He'd say to me, cmon kid let's go for a ride. I'd jump into his Eldorado and off we would go. Next thing he's lighting up some primo weed and he passes it over to me. We'd cruise and gab and he would ask me how I feel. I'd say great! Then we'd go back to the poolroom and hit balls around and laugh and giggle. I loved my buddy Bugsy. He was good to me, like a second father. I know he was a gangster but so what.
 
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Yeah Bugsy was a great guy. Only I made a rookie mistake and asked a young girl he was with if he was her father. He didnt speak to me after that. Funny people are starting to ask the girls Im now with the same question? Is it because they keep calling me "daddy"? LOL!

I stopped playing pool seriously though when I ran into Black Rudy. Once a debonair good looking money man was down on his luck and looked all broken down. I didnt want to end up on that road. It was sad. I knew it was time to look for something serious.
 
yobagua said:
Yeah Bugsy was a great guy. Only I made a rookie mistake and asked a young girl he was with if he was her father. He didnt speak to me after that. Funny people are starting to ask the girls Im now with the same question? Is it because they keep calling me "daddy"? LOL!

I stopped playing pool seriously though when I ran into Black Rudy. Once a debonair good looking money man was down on his luck and looked all broken down. I didnt want to end up on that road. It was sad. I knew it was time to look for something serious.
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I only know Rudy got very sick at the end. With cancer I believe. Maybe that is when you saw him.
 
jay helfert said:
I played in all those places too. I never worried too much about the "time", because I always made sure that paying the time was part of the bet. You know "loser pays the time". Celebrity Billiards was upstairs at Santa Monica and Vine. I made my first "big" score there playing Rudy, a high line pimp and a gentleman pool player. I gave him 8-6 for $50 a game, a big bet for me in the 60's. I won $600 the first night and $400 the second. I thought I was rich. I was living nearby in a $25 a week apartment, a very nice efficiency unit.
Click to expand...
I played less at Celebrity than at the other two. I remember Cecil, and also a one-armed black guy who used a little block of wood with a "V" cut in it, and covered with felt for a bridge. Played pretty strong too. I watched Richie Florence match up with some high roller and take the cheese one time.

Mr. Pockets was at Sixth and Manhattan. It later became a Billiard Den. The gypsies played there for big money, but you couldn't get into the game. Even Cooney couldn't find a way in. I played Brian in there and he gave me 9-7 and I couldn't get there. I used to play old man Harry $5 One Pocket. I couldn't win and neither could anyone else. But I learned a million good moves from him.
Click to expand...
I spent a lot of that time in that joint during '68 and '69. Too bad I can't remember most of the player's names. One of the local shortstops gave my wife 50-3 in straight pool for $20-- and won! Italian guy. Looked a little like Eddie Robin. Was Harry the old guy, gray hair, something wrong with his chin, bent shoulders, played good one-hole? That's the room where George --Phil Specter's chauffer and bodyguard-- played with his 36 ounce cue!

Chopstix was on Victory Blvd. in the Valley. I beat Paul Hartley in there and then let him stay at my apartment. He returned the favor by ripping me off and running back to Ohio. I saw him many years later and he was VERY apologetic and contrite. I no longer wanted to murder him. I also played Popcorn for the first time and beat him and then he sic'ed Ray Booth on me. I lost to him. I played Bill Cress in there and a few others. It was a tough spot with many good players. All trying to trap the owner who had big bucks.

The guy who owned the place was the best in the world at using two cues and cradling the cue ball and letting it run up and down the cue to make balls. Hence the name Chopstix. Jimmy Caras was great at this too. Nicky Varner can also do it.
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I was in that joint every day for two years. I never wanted to leave! The legendary Hollywood Jack was a part time counter man, and he hustled pool and cards. Louie St. Pierre (The Magic Man), Harry "the Hook" Cohen, Fitz, Tonyola, Coke, etc., etc. That was also the first time I ever saw the great Allen Gold (Gilbert) play 3-cushion.

The owner's name was Howard. He wasn't much to look at, but he had a dynamite looking wife (Ruth, I think) who was real chi-chi, but a little over the hill. Everyone believed she and Jack were fraternizing a little. When Howard died they didn't hide it much any longer. She then owned the joint, but Jack ran it. I moved to Santa Cruz late in '69, so I never heard what happened to the place.

Doc
 
That was one armed Joe. I played him some one hole. He made his living as a sign painter. A great guy and loved onehole.Saw him in Hollywood about 2 years ago.
 
gulfportdoc said:
I played less at Celebrity than at the other two. I remember Cecil, and also a one-armed black guy who used a little block of wood with a "V" cut in it, and covered with felt for a bridge. Played pretty strong too. I watched Richie Florence match up with some high roller and take the cheese one time.


I spent a lot of that time in that joint during '68 and '69. Too bad I can't remember most of the player's names. One of the local shortstops gave my wife 50-3 in straight pool for $20-- and won! Italian guy. Looked a little like Eddie Robin. Was Harry the old guy, gray hair, something wrong with his chin, bent shoulders, played good one-hole? That's the room where George --Phil Specter's chauffer and bodyguard-- played with his 36 ounce cue!


I was in that joint every day for two years. I never wanted to leave! The legendary Hollywood Jack was a part time counter man, and he hustled pool and cards. Louie St. Pierre (The Magic Man), Harry "the Hook" Cohen, Fitz, Tonyola, Coke, etc., etc. That was also the first time I ever saw the great Allen Gold (Gilbert) play 3-cushion.

The owner's name was Howard. He wasn't much to look at, but he had a dynamite looking wife (Ruth, I think) who was real chi-chi, but a little over the hill. Everyone believed she and Jack were fraternizing a little. When Howard died they didn't hide it much any longer. She then owned the joint, but Jack ran it. I moved to Santa Cruz late in '69, so I never heard what happened to the place.

Doc
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One armed Joe used to come into my joint at Hollywood Park. So, he's still around, and loves to gamble at One Pocket.

The Italian looking guy sounds a lot like Pancho and that's the kind of game he would make, and win! Harry was short and stocky. Played real good One Pocket for 5 a game. Even Brian had trouble beating him.

George Travell played at the Den and Celebrity. Loved to play 14.1 and could run a rack or two is all. I went to Spectors trial, and was dying to ask him about George. Didn't get a chance, as he was surrounded by huge bodygurads.
 
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