Your Spot Shot Record?

I happened to have a lesson Sunday with a former top pro. When I asked about what a good percentage would be for making a spot shot and getting the cue ball back to the head spot, he asked, "which way?" He then proceeded to make the spot shot (with the cue ball starting in the kitchen near the right side rail) using heavy low right English, and drew the cueball directly to the side rail, across the table to the other side rail ABOVE the side pocket (on the head spot side of the side pocket) and from there to the head spot. Un-f$%^ing-believeable -I didn't even know such a thing was possible. He thinks he could do it 1 or 2 out of 10 tries. I think I could do it 0 out of a thousand tries.

P.S. - on a 9 foot table.
 
Williebetmore said:
I happened to have a lesson Sunday with a former top pro. When I asked about what a good percentage would be for making a spot shot and getting the cue ball back to the head spot, he asked, "which way?" He then proceeded to make the spot shot (with the cue ball starting in the kitchen near the right side rail) using heavy low right English, and drew the cueball directly to the side rail, across the table to the other side rail ABOVE the side pocket (on the head spot side of the side pocket) and from there to the head spot. Un-f$%^ing-believeable -I didn't even know such a thing was possible. He thinks he could do it 1 or 2 out of 10 tries. I think I could do it 0 out of a thousand tries.

P.S. - on a 9 foot table.

Willie, there may be players skillful enough to pull off the draw shot you describe in any conditions, but I'm sure there aren't many. On the other hand, if the cloth put on the table is pulled very tight before being stapled, it's not that tough. Pull it tight enough and you can draw one rail to the foot rail off a spot shot. I know, because I've done it.
 
70's

At the Classic Club in Las Vegas, 1975, Earl Schriver bet me 10 to 1 that he could make 100 spot shots in a row...my $50 to his $5...He makes 100!
...then he bets me that he could bank 100 spot shots in a row, now "HIS" $50 to my $500....I am sweating at number 50...he misses number 88!!!

Not bad for an old man...
 
sjm said:
Willie, there may be players skillful enough to pull off the draw shot you describe in any conditions, but I'm sure there aren't many. On the other hand, if the cloth put on the table is pulled very tight before being stapled, it's not that tough. Pull it tight enough and you can draw one rail to the foot rail off a spot shot. I know, because I've done it.

SJM,
Remind me not to ever play you for money (I don't care how tight the cloth is, I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it). Of course, you know who the pro is, if you haven't seen all of his Accu-Stats video's, he has some real eye-opening shots that you may not have seen very often (almost no one has this kind of power).
 
ajrack said:
At the Classic Club in Las Vegas, 1975, Earl Schriver bet me 10 to 1 that he could make 100 spot shots in a row...my $50 to his $5...He makes 100!
...then he bets me that he could bank 100 spot shots in a row, now "HIS" $50 to my $500....I am sweating at number 50...he misses number 88!!!

Not bad for an old man...

Ajrack,
On what size table was this bet contested?? If that was a 9 ft. table with small pockets, that guy is incredible. I've not heard his name before, is he a pro?
 
Williebetmore said:
SJM,
Remind me not to ever play you for money (I don't care how tight the cloth is, I'm pretty sure I couldn't do it). Of course, you know who the pro is, if you haven't seen all of his Accu-Stats video's, he has some real eye-opening shots that you may not have seen very often (almost no one has this kind of power).

You wanna talk about eye-openers, how about this- I've seen Efren shoot a spot shot, with the CB and OB in the same position as SJM described, make the OB in the corner pocket, and STOP THE CUEBALL DEAD ON THE SPOT. He literally STOPPED the cueball dead in it's tracks, he didn't go around the table and have it stop, he stopped it like he was shooting a straight in shot!! Now THAT was an eye-opener. He did it 3 times in a row.
 
ajrack said:
At the Classic Club in Las Vegas, 1975, Earl Schriver bet me 10 to 1 that he could make 100 spot shots in a row...my $50 to his $5...He makes 100!
...then he bets me that he could bank 100 spot shots in a row, now "HIS" $50 to my $500....I am sweating at number 50...he misses number 88!!!

Not bad for an old man...
Of course there is a trick to this that allows even a beginner with a reasonably straight stroke to make many in a row. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. If you repeatedly shoot a shot -- same cue ball position, same object ball position -- a track gets worn in the cloth. If you start the cue ball out just a little wrong, it will get pulled into the "gutter." It's not much of an effect, but it can be important if the shot is already fairly close. I'm convinced that it is how the spot shot record was set. I would not be surprised if Earl was actually even money on 100 in a row -- after all, he made 187 out of 188.

Here is the counter trick: spot the object a quarter-inch to the left or right. Even if the shooter's aim is correct for the new position, the gutter will pull the ball off and he'll miss.
 
LastTwo said:
You wanna talk about eye-openers, how about this- I've seen Efren shoot a spot shot, with the CB and OB in the same position as SJM described, make the OB in the corner pocket, and STOP THE CUEBALL DEAD ON THE SPOT. He literally STOPPED the cueball dead in it's tracks, he didn't go around the table and have it stop, he stopped it like he was shooting a straight in shot!! Now THAT was an eye-opener. He did it 3 times in a row.

Can you draw what you saw on the Wei Table

Also, how did he cue the shot? Swerve?
 
LastTwo said:
You wanna talk about eye-openers, how about this- I've seen Efren shoot a spot shot, with the CB and OB in the same position as SJM described, make the OB in the corner pocket, and STOP THE CUEBALL DEAD ON THE SPOT. He literally STOPPED the cueball dead in it's tracks, he didn't go around the table and have it stop, he stopped it like he was shooting a straight in shot!! Now THAT was an eye-opener. He did it 3 times in a row.

Are you talking about SJM's spot shot that the cue starts on the head spot. Spot to spot to coner pocket? What your saying can't be done shooting straight at the ball. Maybe off the side rail or something like that, but as far as shooting it like a draw shot, shooting straight at it, as you indicated. Nope, can't happen. Would bet me life on it. No tricks now. No missleading statments like hitting the cue running down the table using the cue to pocket the ball and stop the cue all in one second stroke. NO TRICKS! Can't be done. Who's law is that, 'somehing in motion will tend to say in motion.l....

Cant' be done.
 
CaptainJR said:
Are you talking about SJM's spot shot that the cue starts on the head spot. Spot to spot to coner pocket? What your saying can't be done shooting straight at the ball. Maybe off the side rail or something like that, but as far as shooting it like a draw shot, shooting straight at it, as you indicated. Nope, can't happen. Would bet me life on it. No tricks now. No missleading statments like hitting the cue running down the table using the cue to pocket the ball and stop the cue all in one second stroke. NO TRICKS! Can't be done. Who's law is that, 'somehing in motion will tend to say in motion.l....

Cant' be done.

Captain, I haven't seen it, but I'll bet that Efren uses a masse to turn it into a straight shot.

Besides, Efren frequently does the impossible.
 
CaptainJR said:
Are you talking about SJM's spot shot that the cue starts on the head spot. Spot to spot to coner pocket? What your saying can't be done shooting straight at the ball. Maybe off the side rail or something like that, but as far as shooting it like a draw shot, shooting straight at it, as you indicated. Nope, can't happen. Would bet me life on it. No tricks now. No missleading statments like hitting the cue running down the table using the cue to pocket the ball and stop the cue all in one second stroke. NO TRICKS! Can't be done. Who's law is that, 'somehing in motion will tend to say in motion.l....

Cant' be done.

________________________________________________________________

This is a beautiful example of the fish grows every time the story is told. One person embelishes it and the perch becomes a bass then a tuna and finally a whale. It gets told from one to the other and soon you don't know what went down. Even if the teller was there and saw it, let him tell it long enough and it will grow in size and soon become impossible. People see things, then report a different thing. 10 people can stand on a corner and see a car accident and report 10 different accidents, ask any lawyer about this and he will say it is so. If you do not have a video tape of the shot, then you have nothing and no proof. It's just another pool hall tall tale.

Pool halls are full of them. Some are true and some are not. Because the vast majority of them are not true, people just can't handle the true impossible one when it does come along. I once shot a ball table length, jumped it to a 2nd table which jumped it to a 3rd table and made the 8 ball in the side pocket. No video of it, never had told it before now because I learned nobody could believe that one, but I swear on a stack of bibles it went down. How do you sort these out and the answer is without video proof you can't. The other one I never released because it cannot be believed is I spit a cue ball out of my mouth and it hit 10 rails. I'll take a lie detector test on both and bet you a zillion bucks. I have the 10 rail spit ball on tape.

I went up to a bar in a pool hall to have a beer, just walked in the door and a guy there begain a conversation which got into great shots on a table. He began to tell me about this guy who came in a year ago and did this and that and I am sitting there knowing the guy he is telling me about is me. I said did you actually see this, he goes yes, I was there. He was not and the things he was telling me I did were impossible. I never wised him up.

Another guy in my room kept telling the same damn story every day about how his dad made this impossible shot nobody else could do. I went out, figured the damn thing out and went, come over here, watch this, bang zap down it went with his jaw.
A week later I am eating lunch and I hear him in the booth behind me, we are back to back so he does not know I am behind him and he is telling that same damn story again, but this time he has changed and embellished the story so now the shot is impossible and I nor any one can make it. The guy just loves telling that story to impress people, it makes him I guess special in some way or gives him something to talk about. Making a spot shot and stopping the cb on that spot with out the cb hitting a rail cannot be done. A masse shot has follow on the ball, it will not stop either. I am actually from Missouri, when I see that one, I'll believe that one. Put up a video.

The moral is, some just like telling tall stories to impress people to see their reactions, no harm in that. If you hang out in bars, you hear one every day of your life.

Moral two, the fish grows.

Rama...
;)
 
ramdadingdong said:
________________________________________________________________


A masse shot has follow on the ball, it will not stop either. I am actually from Missouri, when I see that one, I'll believe that one. Put up a video.
Rama...
;)

When a cue ball is hit with follow, the overspin dissipates gradually on the way to the object ball, and the result is that the cue ball only follows a hair after hitting the object ball. A slow roll shot is an example of this. A masse on which the overspin of the cue ball has largely dissipated by the time it gets to the object ball is much harder to produce, but it is possible. Still, my slant on it is that even if the masse were struck perfectly, at a speed where the spot shot would be made strainght and the object ball would slow roll into the corner pocket, the cue ball would still follow a few inches. Still, I'm not sure.
 
ajrack said:
At the Classic Club in Las Vegas, 1975, Earl Schriver bet me 10 to 1 that he could make 100 spot shots in a row...my $50 to his $5...He makes 100!
...then he bets me that he could bank 100 spot shots in a row, now "HIS" $50 to my $500....I am sweating at number 50...he misses number 88!!!

Not bad for an old man...

I might would give 10-1 to make 100 in a row on a Diamond Pro 9'. But the shooter is going to have to put up a lot more than 5 bucks. No pressure there.

Later, Pel
 
Last edited:
Colin Colenso said:
Also, how did he cue the shot? Swerve?
I saw what I assume was a similar shot by Chris MacDonald, a semi-pro player from this area.

The setup was a standard spot shot, with the cue ball behind the head string and an object ball on the foot spot. Chris played the shot with what would be inside draw if the stick were level, but he elevated to about 70 degrees. The cue ball curved some before it struck the object ball, and hit the object ball more or less full, and the object ball went straight into the normal pocket. The cue ball, after it hit the object ball, drew straight up the centerline of the table about one foot and stopped.

I have tried Chris's shot in Virtual Pool, and it is not that hard to duplicate there. (Virtual Pool has a very good model of the physics of pool.) I have not tried to stop the cue ball nearly dead on impact, but it looks to me like the theory says the cue ball must have some follow or draw at all times on a masse shot that has sidespin. Of course, if you do a masse without side spin, the cue ball doesn't curve, and will come straight back to you if there is enough spin, or will stop or roll on if there is not enough.
 
EArl Schriver

Williebetmore said:
Ajrack,
On what size table was this bet contested?? If that was a 9 ft. table with small pockets, that guy is incredible. I've not heard his name before, is he a pro?
On a 9' Gandy Big "G"...pockets were fairly easy but it was still 100 straight in and 87 banks..
He used to run with Titanic Thompson/ Luther Lassiter/ Squirrel / Eddie Taylor etc.
 
Invite

Bob Jewett said:
I saw what I assume was a similar shot by Chris MacDonald, a semi-pro player from this area.

The setup was a standard spot shot, with the cue ball behind the head string and an object ball on the foot spot. Chris played the shot with what would be inside draw if the stick were level, but he elevated to about 70 degrees. The cue ball curved some before it struck the object ball, and hit the object ball more or less full, and the object ball went straight into the normal pocket. The cue ball, after it hit the object ball, drew straight up the centerline of the table about one foot and stopped.

I have tried Chris's shot in Virtual Pool, and it is not that hard to duplicate there. (Virtual Pool has a very good model of the physics of pool.) I have not tried to stop the cue ball nearly dead on impact, but it looks to me like the theory says the cue ball must have some follow or draw at all times on a masse shot that has sidespin. Of course, if you do a masse without side spin, the cue ball doesn't curve, and will come straight back to you if there is enough spin, or will stop or roll on if there is not enough.
I think you should come to Fast Eddys this weekend for the Pechauer tour and we can all practice this shot. Chris will be there. I know I would like to see this and how it is done.lol
Thanks
 
Dr. Tom is from Long Beach, Calif. about 30 miles from Staples Center in L.A. Do you think that the Lakers asked him to tutor Shaq in free throwing--hell no. No matter that it is probably harder during the course of a game but the NBA record is a minor fraction of Dr. Amberry's total!
 
Who has the spot to spot record?

So...

Who exactly has the spot to spot shot record and what is it?

thanks in advance.
 
So...

Who exactly has the spot to spot shot record and what is it?

thanks in advance.

Well I would have to assume "Spot shot Ken" the guy referred to in this thread from Florida. He was amazing I saw him make hundreds in a row lots of times. He would practice and never miss and just quit. You have no problem finding witnesses everybody knew him and had seen him make hundreds. When he made like over 1200 that nigh there was a room full of people and taking turns spotting the balls for him.

The first time I met him I got hustled. He wanted to bet on 30 out of 50 for $50.00. I didn't know who he was and talked him into 40 out of 50. Of course he was stealing. In a random bet 98 out of a 100 would have been about even money and once he got going he would probably win every time. The thing is, when you see him do it you can see in no time why he almost never misses. He would just slow roll in the shots from the head spot like it was easy with just enough speed to bring the ball back to him.
 
I would say spot shot can be compared to a free throw in basketball. For a novice they aren't very consistent, but for a pro they should be. Does anyone know how many free throws have been made in a row ? I found out that someone has made 58 consecutive free throws in basketball matches, but couldn't find out how many can be made in practice. Seems that the spot shot is even easier than free throw in basketball...

I know that Larry Bird in the late 80's/early 90's made something like 70 (or around there) consecutive free throws in games (as a result of being fouled, etc) and was close to the record (I remember the announcers talking about it, but I can't recall the exactly numbers), but didn't break it. I haven't heard of anyone getting that close since.
 
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