Your True Potential

[AuntyDan]

There are an awful lot of people who play pool these days who don't really know much about pool. They enjoy the hell out the games they play but have no real clue about how many levels there are to the game overall.

I'd have to agree with this. Everytime I learn something new about Pool it makes me realize how little I understood before and how much more there must be to learn.

Personally like to see a Pro tournament format using some kind of "Equal Offense" setup like Golf or Bowling - Each player takes turns breaking and running and the scores are totalled up over 10 racks or so, depending on the game. Even this way though it would still come down to top players shooting 98% beating players shooting 97%. Then again Olympic medals are handed out on the basis of 10,000ths of seconds difference and no-one complains that isn't fair.

 

[Andrew Manning]

Indeed, it seemed obvious to me.

Andrew, when a player gets to a certain level they get the ability to absolutely control a match such that their opponent never really gets an open shot in the entire set. They may not run every single rack, but those that they dont they are giving their opponent a single shot at a 3 rail kick just to hit the ball and sell out another 3 or 4 pack. They basically never give up true control of the table and as such their opponent never gets a viable shot to gain control in the entire match, they are always either sitting and watching their opponent run out or they are getting up to kick at some brutal hook that has no real return safety chances. You can see this happen all the time at the pro level. On a bar box it happens alot more, two players match up and one simply runs right over the other without the other getting to play. This came up on the "bst bar box player" thread, there is no "best" bar box player, any one of the top 10 guys have the ability to break and run the set and totally control the match on any of the others.

Oh, I'm well aware that there are players who when they are in stroke are a threat to run out a set, and will absolutely bury the cueball when they don't run out, giving the opponent no realistic chance. What I think is incorrect is the implication I read into your earlier post that such a player will always win regardless of the other player.

When the other player is also at such a level, you're still only going to win half the time (assuming a coin flip for break, or equal lagging ability). Maybe you meant that such a player can win regardless of how the other player shoots provided he wins the toss/lag, and I admit I was probably just being dense when I interpreted your meaning otherwise. But "the outcome of the match is arbitrary" sounds very different from "always win regardless of how the other player shoots" to me.

-Andrew

 

[Cornerman]

If you could play how you play when you are in deadstroke on a daily basis, how good would you be? Would you be a worldbeater, a shortstop, or what? How good do you think you are capable of playing at this moment in time. In your top gear, do you think you have a chance to beat Efren? Be honest. Me, I think I would be a shortstop.

Are you asking what is the high end of our level of play? I think that's what you're asking.

I'm very fortunate. I hit my best game almost every time I'm still in the end of a tournament and I haven't been drinking too much. That is, it's not one magical time I can remember years ago, but rather a handful of times every year that I feel I'm playing as good as I can play.

What level is that? About a low A player. Not an A, not a shortstop, not a professional, not a world beater. The rest of the time, I'm a B/B+ who starts off tournament as a C player. When I hit my stride, I should be break and running about 1/3 of my racks, depending on how tight the pockets are.

Fred

 

[frankncali]

Potential is what I think he was looking for.

A few people are posting their top games now. I think
many players would be able to better there game with time, effort and
desire. Most of us dont have all of those things available.

I agree with Johns assessment. Most pool players do not know what
good pool is.

In Andrews post I see what he is eluding towards. When hanging out with
a buddy that plays very very well I learned what to look for to see who
would likely come out ahead even if two top players collide.

The biggest difference IMO a you get better is that mistakes prove more costly. At the B level you can get away with a few mistakes but
on the Pro level a mistake can cost you the set.

I have watched a ton of pool and one thing I always note is that theres
more GREAT pool being talked about than there is being played.
Most people think there are people that just run out everytime or never make a mistake. I think we have all seen the best miss and make errors regularly.
Its what they do in between those that seperate them from the rest.

Everyone likes to think that with enough time to practice we could turn into
Pros. I think I play at a B+ level now with ups and downs due to lack of playing time and desire. I dont know what my potential would top out at but
I think theres a lot of room above my own rating.

Using a league type rating I see it that the lower ranks are closer together and easier rungs to climb. As you get higher the rungs become farther apart and its harder to get to the next one. Experience and timing by me what throws guys above the rest. Any Pro in any sport that can stay on top for a long time should be greatly respected. It is not easy

 

[Celtic]

What I think is incorrect is the implication I read into your earlier post that such a player will always win regardless of the other player.

-Andrew

Hey brainiac, why dont you read closer next time then.

Bar Box 8-ball when I am in dead stroke I can beat anyone regardless of how they shoot but that is such a game that there are thousands of players that the same is true for.

You quoted the bloody thing yourself, why not take the time to actually READ it. I said I CAN beat anyone regardless of how they shoot. I did not say I will win every damn match, it simply means that I shoot good enough in that state that I can beat anyone at any time even if they shoot their best. WHICH is exactly what I said.

I never implied I win every match, and if you read that then you need to read closer and stop reaching for things to argue about.

 

[Cane]

I'm simply terrible! Everyone here should give me the break and last two! If you'll do that, I'll just cowboy up and play a little.

Later,
Bob

 

[alstl]

I'd have to agree with this. Everytime I learn something new about Pool it makes me realize how little I understood before and how much more there must be to learn.

Personally like to see a Pro tournament format using some kind of "Equal Offense" setup like Golf or Bowling - Each player takes turns breaking and running and the scores are totalled up over 10 racks or so, depending on the game. Even this way though it would still come down to top players shooting 98% beating players shooting 97%. Then again Olympic medals are handed out on the basis of 10,000ths of seconds difference and no-one complains that isn't fair.

That would be interesting to watch. Today in equal offense I managed a 7.4 for 10 racks, which means I would most likely have zero chance of beating Efren unless he got extremely unlucky. Speaking of Efren I wonder how he is doing after his eye surgery.

 

[mnorwood]

This is a hard but tuff question...

As my signiture says I have run 43 ball in straight pool. However, I have only played straight pool for about 6 months. Lately when I play 8 ball I either run out or my opponent only shoots once. Last month I ran a 3 pack in nine ball, but that is not consistent at all.

What would my potential be. I don't honestly know. I have a 40+ hour a week job, I am in graduate school and I have a wife and kid who I spend alot of time with. I will never know how good I am at pool because it is way down on my list of priorities. But if I had to guess I could at least get to the point where I could finish in the money at a regional event.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

I just made this thread because I think it's funny how almost every pool player exaggerates how good they play when they are in stroke. I see so many players that suck, and every day it's the same thing- "I'm playing bad today".....well YOU PLAY BAD EVERY DAY.

By the way, pros break and run out less than 20% of the time, so stop with the "3's and 4 packs" bullshit. You do that once and you think you can do it everytime.

 

[StormHotRod300]

If i had to be honest, and have the rating scale go like this

World Beater
PRO
SS/AA
A
B
C
D

Right now when i hit high gear, i probably play like an A player, being able to run out from everywhere when having a decent shot, and when hooked, doing kick safes, and jump safes. But this is a rare occasion, and only seems to happen when i need it to happen lol, like if i need a break n run, or need to make that impossible kick n stuff, to get out. So its kinda something that comes n goes.

Now in APA i would say if i top out, i play like a Solid SL8, and in 8ball i would be a killer SL 7, which right now i am a Decent SL6 in both.

dave
dave

 

[Gerry]

I played my best when I worked in the pool rooms and was in action daily. I also jumped in speed when I stopped playing so much 9-ball, and started playing 14.1 every day. I had a pretty good gear in 9-ball, not gonna say I string 3/4 every set, but I had the confidence to step up with anyone, and got beat alot, but I learned to beat better players than myself by not booking alot of stupid games.

My high run then was 106 (7/8 years ago ), but I would put a 40/60 on the board just about every game to 150. The only thing I regret is not learning 1-pocket sooner, but thats what I'm doing now.

Come to think of it, my learning progression from 8-ball to 9-ball to 14.1 to 1-pocket was probably in the perfect order to round out my game in the end. I feel when I hit deadpop in 1-pocket, my strongest game now, I'm a strong shortstop, and just hand Efren my ATM card! with 12/4

 

[Cornerman]

I just made this thread because I think it's funny how almost every pool player exaggerates how good they play when they are in stroke. I see so many players that suck, and every day it's the same thing- "I'm playing bad today".....well YOU PLAY BAD EVERY DAY.

By the way, pros break and run out less than 20% of the time, so stop with the "3's and 4 packs" bullshit. You do that once and you think you can do it everytime.

I hope I answered your question as you asked.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

Now in APA i would say if i top out, i play like a Solid SL8, and in 8ball i would be a killer SL 7, which right now i am a Decent SL6 in both.

I guess this speaks to the question. If when you top out, you play like an SL8, what do you think an SL8 plays like when he tops out? When he bottoms out? Do you mean your best game is an SL8's average game? His best gam (which would be SL9)?

Fred

 

[Egg McDogit]

next time you're in dead stroke, let me know! Give me the 8 and you got action!!

Heck, if I'm totally in deadstroke and potting the suckers, getting shape, kicking like a mule and so on, I'd be unbeatable, at 9 ball that is. How often has that happened? Extremely rarely, but when it does it sure is pretty...

Flex

 

[Colin Colenso]

I believe for the top players, their level is not determined by finding the zone (though that helps their game), it is more to do with a broad knowledge of what to do and how to do it. They read the game a lot smarter that the average good players.

The more I learn about the game, the more weaknesses I realize I have. Still, it gets easier and easier to beat the average local bar champ.

I believe, the average good player, even in the zone will be quickly sized down by the pros who leave little to chance. The mere pressure of playing someone who only gives you a half decent chance once in every few games is enough to turn your zone into a nightmare.

Though some good A players seem to convert to the higher levels more easily that others. They are more fearless, more tenacious, more capable of lifting their games.

For every 10 great players that kill the locals but crumble against the pros, there seems to be one that makes the transition, even though he doesn't seem to be of higher quality than the locals. He can just match the minds of the best competitors.

Anyway...I'm drifting off topic

 

[Celtic]

By the way, pros break and run out less than 20% of the time

That is a pretty bold statement to make when you dont even mention on what equippment they do such on.

If you think they run out under 20% why dont you go bet a pro he cannot beat the ghost.

 

[Colin Colenso]

That is a pretty bold statement to make when you dont even mention on what equippment they do such on.

If you think they run out under 20% why dont you go bet a pro he cannot beat the ghost.

The ghost gives Ball In Hand to the player after the break. A huge difference.

Still, I think 20% for an in form pro on a table they are familiar with is WAY too low. Closer to 40% I think.

 

[Cane]

Beating the ghost isn't even a challenge for the pros.

WW, I agree. I will beat the ghost more times than not in 9-Ball, BUT with Ball in hand after the break you have a HUGE advantage. (not claiming that beating the ghost isn't a challenge for me, I just use it as a training tool) If you get a good spread, you're gonna run out, if you don't, the ghost is gonna win... just that simple. When I play the ghost, I use a COMPLETELY different break than I do when I'm playing another player. I don't care if I make a ball playing the ghost, as long as I spread the balls well and don't have any clusters or trouble balls. Playing another player is a whole different ball game.

I just made this thread because I think it's funny how almost every pool player exaggerates how good they play when they are in stroke. I see so many players that suck, and every day it's the same thing- "I'm playing bad today".....well YOU PLAY BAD EVERY DAY.

What I hate are players who will say "Yeah, I used to play 10 speed, but now I only play 6 speed". Of course, they always lived or played somewhere else when they played 10 speed and nobody local every seems to have seen them play that good. My personal opinion, if you ever played 10 speed, you don't EVER drop down to a 5 or 6 unless you cut off your hands or something. Just normal poolroom BS that you learn to live with and listen to from players trying to make an excuse as to why they just lost a set.

Once played a guy in a small room here in Oklahoma that warned me he was a good player before we started. Beat his brains out and it didn't take much effort. After it was over, he told me he was "in a slump". After he left, one of his friends came over and says "Yeah, he's in a slump, alright. He's been in a slump for 25 years! Sum***** never could play pool!" I dunno... guess people like that just hate their money, or maybe they really believe they could play better at one time...

Later,
Bob

 

[FOXYCOXY]

Normal speed is a-. On those rare occasions "shortstop" that can string 3 or 4 racks. Damn don`t it feel good on those nights.

 

[Crispy Fish]

I would be world champion if I didn't miss so many shots.