Your Ultimate Gold Crown

[The Turk]

What would your ultimate Gold Crown be? How would you rebuild it form the floor/up? Would you add races? What cushions or pocket angles would you prefer? I am curious to see what different mechanics would do with the opportunity to rebuild a crown. Lets say the customer had a budget of 12-1500.00 dollars, and gave you artistic license to rebuild the GC. Not concerned with appearance, finish, nicks and dings, only a technical,playable approach. Make it both a 9 ball/ One Pocket table.

 

[Donny Wessels]

I do about one job like this a month. I use artemis K55, simonis 860, Diamond pocket angles with a 14 deg down angle, switch slate screws to bolts.

 

[realkingcobra]

What would your ultimate Gold Crown be? How would you rebuild it form the floor/up? Would you add races? What cushions or pocket angles would you prefer? I am curious to see what different mechanics would do with the opportunity to rebuild a crown. Lets say the customer had a budget of 12-1500.00 dollars, and gave you artistic license to rebuild the GC. Not concerned with appearance, finish, nicks and dings, only a technical,playable approach. Make it both a 9 ball/ One Pocket table.

I think what you've asked for is way beyond most mechanic's abilities to perform, as if I had to guess, I'd have to say that 999 out of 1000 mechanics have never even done sub-rail extentions, let alone pocket angle corrections it has been my experience how ever, traveling all over the country seeing work done by mechanics in almost every state....there are only about less than 10 mechanics in the country that are actually extending the sub-rails....and less than that doing it right

 

[The Turk]

I do about one job like this a month. I use artemis K55, simonis 860, Diamond pocket angles with a 14 deg down angle, switch slate screws to bolts.

Are you changing the subrail angle on the artemis cushions. One of the action tables where I play is fitted with artemis 55's and it plays very short. I could not venture a guess to what the angle was when the mechanic installed them.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I think what you've asked for is way beyond most mechanic's abilities to perform, as if I had to guess, I'd have to say that 999 out of 1000 mechanics have never even done sub-rail extentions, let alone pocket angle corrections it has been my experience how ever, traveling all over the country seeing work done by mechanics in almost every state....there are only about less than 10 mechanics in the country that are actually extending the sub-rails....and less than that doing it right

2 of them have already posted to this thread.

Donny did a really good job on mine. What impressed me most is that I went around and measured every pocket, and they are all exactly the same.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Are you changing the subrail angle on the artemis cushions. One of the action tables where I play is fitted with artemis 55's and it plays very short. I could not venture a guess to what the angle was when the mechanic installed them.

Ouch!
Same problem here.

 

[TableTek]

Only 10 mechanics able to do quality subrail extensions? BS

So you are saying that less than 10 guys out there are capable and qualifiied to do subrails? The work is not that tough. This board is so polarized by your ego, I am surprised you don't have to log in twice. Maybe when people call me and ask "Whats up with that guy who acts like God" I should just have them call you direct to ask you. My work is quality, and yes I am very public about my mistakes. I often have referenced my problems in the Simonis stretch. I work on 3-4 tables a week and rarely do any new installs or simple recovers. If I were making $300 a day and doing 2 new table installs a day, I am certain my cloth ability would soon match that of my subrails. This "bad publicity" you two have been hitting me with is not a bad thing Glen, customers are turned off by people that take no fault. I admit my faults, publicly and to my direct competition. You know of a couple problem jobs I had in the past few months, because we spoke about it. When Ryan calls you, do you tell him what you told me on why you didn't want it? Probably not. Your work is great, can't lie, but the ego is in the long run going to greatly limit you. With your going rates and contacts, I find it hard to believe you aren't clearing 250k. If I am in the business after 20 years and am still humping slate and living in a box truck, I will go work at Burger King.
Rob

I think what you've asked for is way beyond most mechanic's abilities to perform, as if I had to guess, I'd have to say that 999 out of 1000 mechanics have never even done sub-rail extentions, let alone pocket angle corrections it has been my experience how ever, traveling all over the country seeing work done by mechanics in almost every state....there are only about less than 10 mechanics in the country that are actually extending the sub-rails....and less than that doing it right

 

[realkingcobra]

So you are saying that less than 10 guys out there are capable and qualifiied to do subrails? The work is not that tough. This board is so polarized by your ego, I am surprised you don't have to log in twice. Maybe when people call me and ask "Whats up with that guy who acts like God" I should just have them call you direct to ask you. My work is quality, and yes I am very public about my mistakes. I often have referenced my problems in the Simonis stretch. I work on 3-4 tables a week and rarely do any new installs or simple recovers. If I were making $300 a day and doing 2 new table installs a day, I am certain my cloth ability would soon match that of my subrails. This "bad publicity" you two have been hitting me with is not a bad thing Glen, customers are turned off by people that take no fault. I admit my faults, publicly and to my direct competition. You know of a couple problem jobs I had in the past few months, because we spoke about it. When Ryan calls you, do you tell him what you told me on why you didn't want it? Probably not. Your work is great, can't lie, but the ego is in the long run going to greatly limit you. With your going rates and contacts, I find it hard to believe you aren't clearing 250k. If I am in the business after 20 years and am still humping slate and living in a box truck, I will go work at Burger King.
Rob

Be carefull Rob

 

[realkingcobra]

So you are saying that less than 10 guys out there are capable and qualifiied to do subrails? The work is not that tough. This board is so polarized by your ego, I am surprised you don't have to log in twice. Maybe when people call me and ask "Whats up with that guy who acts like God" I should just have them call you direct to ask you. My work is quality, and yes I am very public about my mistakes. I often have referenced my problems in the Simonis stretch. I work on 3-4 tables a week and rarely do any new installs or simple recovers. If I were making $300 a day and doing 2 new table installs a day, I am certain my cloth ability would soon match that of my subrails. This "bad publicity" you two have been hitting me with is not a bad thing Glen, customers are turned off by people that take no fault. I admit my faults, publicly and to my direct competition. You know of a couple problem jobs I had in the past few months, because we spoke about it. When Ryan calls you, do you tell him what you told me on why you didn't want it? Probably not. Your work is great, can't lie, but the ego is in the long run going to greatly limit you. With your going rates and contacts, I find it hard to believe you aren't clearing 250k. If I am in the business after 20 years and am still humping slate and living in a box truck, I will go work at Burger King.
Rob

You might want to get that Burger King application at least on file

 

[TableTek]

I have it glued to the inside roof of my truck, if I see it long enough I might just turn it in! You are a riot Glen. We only butt heads because of similarity. If we were that different, there would be no comments needed.

You might want to get that Burger King application at least on file

 

[rjtcobra]

So you are saying that less than 10 guys out there are capable and qualifiied to do subrails? The work is not that tough. This board is so polarized by your ego, I am surprised you don't have to log in twice. Maybe when people call me and ask "Whats up with that guy who acts like God" I should just have them call you direct to ask you. My work is quality, and yes I am very public about my mistakes. I often have referenced my problems in the Simonis stretch. I work on 3-4 tables a week and rarely do any new installs or simple recovers. If I were making $300 a day and doing 2 new table installs a day, I am certain my cloth ability would soon match that of my subrails. This "bad publicity" you two have been hitting me with is not a bad thing Glen, customers are turned off by people that take no fault. I admit my faults, publicly and to my direct competition. You know of a couple problem jobs I had in the past few months, because we spoke about it. When Ryan calls you, do you tell him what you told me on why you didn't want it? Probably not. Your work is great, can't lie, but the ego is in the long run going to greatly limit you. With your going rates and contacts, I find it hard to believe you aren't clearing 250k. If I am in the business after 20 years and am still humping slate and living in a box truck, I will go work at Burger King.
Rob

Wow, how did I get mentioned in the "the ultimate Gold Crown" thread?

Rob, for the record, Glen asked me to call him. Furthermore, at the end of the day, I am simply not happy with your work. However, I think I was a good customer as I did pay you in full. I am simply going to hire someone else to do a better job. Perhaps I am a perfectionist, perhaps I ask too much. Could be one of the reasons I am so successful at what I do for a living.

And by the way, if you think I am just a paper pusher, know that I have a mechanical background as well, Being that as a hobby in my younger days, I built a home, doing all of the framing, electrical, trim, etc. completely by myself. I also completely hand-built a small block Chevy engine (save for machine work) myself, at age 17. What I do now just pays a hell of a lot better.

The reason I wlked out with my rails, and am now looking for someone else to recloth is that you simply cannot do the job to my satisfaction. It would be like asking a car mechanic to build a Saturn V rocket, they can promise that will fix it a houndred times, but if they can't do it, they can't do it. The first set was too loose (by your own admission), and after installing your recloth, there are dimples throughout the rails now. I called others to fix because, again, by your own admission, you don't do a lot of Simonis. Had I known that prior, I would have only had you do the railwork, and hired Pat or someone else to do the recloth. I originally wanted Glen in the first place, but did not want to wait until he came out here as it appeared to me that it would be a while.

Btw, in your little chats about me with Glen, Pat or whoever, be sure to mention how I originally asked for 1/8 facings, but stripped your "european" side pocket wrap and found 3/16ths without you ever tellling me so. And this was after you commented on the fact that you were happy I was so specific with my specifications.

I am now willing to live with the zebra stripes along the side pockets on the table cloth until Glen comes aound again.

Good luck, and leave me out of your posts by name, and I will do the same for you (as I have NEVER posted about you). It's what I call professional curtesy.

Ryan

 

[TableTek]

Good, I am glad you are posting about this. Just so you know, you have no choice but waiting on Glen. Even then God Bless him. I was very specific with all aspects of the work. I did tell you that I don't do as much Simonis work as most mechanics. I even showed those mechanics who came by at the expo (that is why I didn't finish them before the expo for you) most of whom probably won't openly back me up on here. I don't think there is anyone on the planet that can make you happy. You went over those rails at my shop with me, we covered everything before you shook my hand and thanked me for the good job. I didn't find out you weren't happy for almost a week when another mechanic called me after he refused to work for you. I don't care why you are slandering me, I saw this coming ever since Glen told me he passed on the job for a reason. I was just trying to get it done and get you happy and be done with it. I do have most of your 40+ emails and 56 texts, 14 emails of which were before I even picked up the rails. Never, and I mean never will I ignore my gut when a potential customer sends me 14 emails before I even get there. You want a home style table to play like exactly like a Gold Crown, and it isn't possible (Glen's words too). In an effort to stay reasonably professional I can't say much more on the subject, what I have said is in defense of a personal attack on my character. Good luck with everything Ryan.

Now for those pulling the strings..

There are two more jobs you two knuckleheads know of that I had issues with this past year, feel free to start a thread on each of those as well. I don't have large accounts to lose, and I don't do pool hall work. Yet I still do enough work to actually invest in my business and education.... That being said you only have this forum to attack me on. There are very specific laws on defamation of character, libel and slander, and I know much of them. I was self sufficient before coming on here and total I have done only 25 jobs from here this past year. This is a wasted pursuit to continue, once again I propose you to stop beating the ground.
Rob

Wow, how did I get mentioned in the "the ultimate Gold Crown" thread?

Rob, for the record, Glen asked me to call him. Furthermore, at the end of the day, I am simply not happy with your work. However, I think I was a good customer as I did pay you in full. I am simply going to hire someone else to do a better job. Perhaps I am a perfectionist, perhaps I ask too much. Could be one of the reasons I am so successful at what I do for a living.

And by the way, if you think I am just a paper pusher, know that I have a mechanical background as well, Being that as a hobby in my younger days, I built a home, doing all of the framing, electrical, trim, etc. completely by myself. I also completely hand-built a small block Chevy engine (save for machine work) myself, at age 17. What I do now just pays a hell of a lot better.

The reason I wlked out with my rails, and am now looking for someone else to recloth is that you simply cannot do the job to my satisfaction. It would be like asking a car mechanic to build a Saturn V rocket, they can promise that will fix it a houndred times, but if they can't do it, they can't do it. The first set was too loose (by your own admission), and after installing your recloth, there are dimples throughout the rails now. I called others to fix because, again, by your own admission, you don't do a lot of Simonis. Had I known that prior, I would have only had you do the railwork, and hired Pat or someone else to do the recloth. I originally wanted Glen in the first place, but did not want to wait until he came out here as it appeared to me that it would be a while.

Btw, in your little chats about me with Glen, Pat or whoever, be sure to mention how I originally asked for 1/8 facings, but stripped your "european" side pocket wrap and found 3/16ths without you ever tellling me so. And this was after you commented on the fact that you were happy I was so specific with my specifications.

I am now willing to live with the zebra stripes along the side pockets on the table cloth until Glen comes aound again.

Good luck, and leave me out of your posts by name, and I will do the same for you (as I have NEVER posted about you). It's what I call professional curtesy.

Ryan

 

[rjtcobra]

I don't think Glen turned down my job in the past, just never made it to the east coast yet? Either way, doesn't matter, and i don't want to continue this. If he doesn't want to do it, he can tell me and that would be fine. That's for him to decide, and we're all big boys here.


Good luck Rob.

 

[Donny Wessels]

no, I'm not changing the subrail angles. Whenever I do a job like this I play on the table usually for about 1/2 hour to make sure everything plays how I like it and to see if there's some areas I can improve in. I like how the artemis cushions play in regards to speed and banking. I have notice some inconsistency in brunswick rails. At this point I don't have the know how or tools to correct them. But I check them anyways, I hope for a 1 11/16" subrail hieght and 23 deg bevel.

perhaps Mitchell can answer your question if they bank short, he's a competent player and would know the difference.

 

[realkingcobra]

I don't think Glen turned down my job in the past, just never made it to the east coast yet? Either way, doesn't matter, and i don't want to continue this. If he doesn't want to do it, he can tell me and that would be fine. That's for him to decide, and we're all big boys here.


Good luck Rob.

Rob, as far as Brian goes, turning down the job because I can't get there is far different than turning down the job and because so, YOU take it upon your self to jump at the chance to do the work. No, I can only make a GC play like a GC...well, better than a GC....but, never-the-less....never once did I ever say that I "couldn't" make Brian's table play much better than factory. The difference between you and I, is that I KNOW what I'm doing...while you're using customers tables to experiment with your mill, and I guarantee you've found out your system is screwed up....and if you want to argue that point Rob....you're going to have a lot more mechanics having something to say about it.....if you don't stop crying and shut the hell up. In your kind of words........shall we go into the conversation about some one piece side rails off an Olhausen table you f*%ed up?


Shut up Rob, I'm tired of reading about your BS, and your attacking others, myself included

 

[TableTek]

Please bring up the Olhausen rail ya frikken genius. Lets see who was present during that entire process....

Josh & Donny
Pat Odonnell
Bob Deturk & Robin
Jay Spielburg

That was Pat's Olhausen and we basically experimented it since it was a one piece side rail and the first to go on the mill. Go ahead...grab at air.

You constantly attack others on here, don't like it when it turns on you? It is funny what pisses people off most is generally truth vs fiction. If my method was that lame, you wouldn't waste your time to argue against it. Why would I want a portable subrail tool? As of tonight I don't do any pool halls where it would be helpful... Did you think I was going to make tooling that made my shop replaceable?

You know what this reminds me of? College, Intro to Philosophy in my 2nd year. I would go to the professor's office and just make a random comment to hear where he went with it. His intelligence was so far over anything I have ever run into up to that point. We spoke often, he must have likened it to speaking to a child. In this point I am reaching to, I liken you to the child. No matter what I say, you are not versed enough to comprehend. If you stick to your strong points as a mechanic I have no way to combat you, but talk accuracy or repeatability or maybe flossing it is a different story (actually my teeth are pretty scary). My respect for you as a mechanic is great, but you have some serious short comings as well. For heavens sake Glen, you showed up 2 days late to your own seminar!
Rob

 

[realkingcobra]

Please bring up the Olhausen rail ya frikken genius. Lets see who was present during that entire process....

Josh & Donny
Pat Odonnell
Bob Deturk & Robin
Jay Spielburg

That was Pat's Olhausen and we basically experimented it since it was a one piece side rail and the first to go on the mill. Go ahead...grab at air.

You constantly attack others on here, don't like it when it turns on you? It is funny what pisses people off most is generally truth vs fiction. If my method was that lame, you wouldn't waste your time to argue against it. Why would I want a portable subrail tool? As of tonight I don't do any pool halls where it would be helpful... Did you think I was going to make tooling that made my shop replaceable?

You know what this reminds me of? College, Intro to Philosophy in my 2nd year. I would go to the professor's office and just make a random comment to hear where he went with it. His intelligence was so far over anything I have ever run into up to that point. We spoke often, he must have likened it to speaking to a child. In this point I am reaching to, I liken you to the child. No matter what I say, you are not versed enough to comprehend. If you stick to your strong points as a mechanic I have no way to combat you, but talk accuracy or repeatability or maybe flossing it is a different story (actually my teeth are pretty scary). My respect for you as a mechanic is great, but you have some serious short comings as well. For heavens sake Glen, you showed up 2 days late to your own seminar!
Rob

Alright, that's it, truth be known....Rob, you're nothing more than a "hack" as a mechanic, and the best thing you can do for your "customers"...is get a job at Burger King, because as a table mechanic....if you stay on the course your on....you are going to get some customer really pissed off at you and file a lawsuit against you for damages to their pool table. You have no idea how to install the cloth on slates, let alone recover rails correctly. Even the broken slate that you're about to attempt to fix, you're going about it wrong, in which case, I'm sure you can sand off the top side of the slate to at least flatten it out somewhat....after you get done repairing it.

You can't have any friends, because you don't know how to treat friends, because the first rule of friends is.......you DON'T f*$#ING STAB YOUR FRIENDS IN THE BACK!

You don't know how to shut up and just learn something, because you're always trying to say how YOU do this, and YOU do that....when NO ONE cares about how YOU do things....because most know you're WRONG!

How many of these jobs have you done...that you've had to have HELP from another mechanic to clean up your messes? How many times have you had to call in help to finish up a table....because YOU COULDN'T DO IT RIGHT!

Who knows what the hell else you've done as a mechanic. Even on that GC4 you did, I told you on Brian's table you CAN"T use cross grain cloth....YOU CAN'T USE CROSS GRAIN CLOTH!!!!!!!!!! Then you go ahead and do it again on the GC4.....are you that dumb that you don't understand that you can't use CROSS GRAIN cloth on the rails because they show the zebra strips so bad and dimple the nose of the cushions.....or is it that you just don't care?...because it's just cosmetic anyway....isn't that what you like to say?

Well let me tell you something Rob, when SOMEONE else is paying you to do a job...you do the job RIGHT, not Rob's way, you do it RIGHT because you're being PAID to do it RIGHT!

As far as my seminar...uhhhhh, I believe everyone was suppose to show up on Friday....seminar started on Saturday....I had Jay have everyone taking the tables apart and making repairs, I got there Saturday about 5pm or so, then showed everyone how to glue, stretch, and install the first bed cloth..........so how was I two days late?

See, not only do you not know what's going on, yet you still run your mouth....but did you even know Jay is my business partner????....even at the seminar!!! So I had all my basis covered.

Are you just in need of attention Rob? Is that why you act the way you do?

Listen, you don't have to be here on AZ if you don't want to be, but let me try and explain something to you.

There isn't a mechanic on here that can't say they haven't learned something, if not a lot...from me, so that kind of makes me the teacher, and the mechanics the students.

I have chosen to teach my skills here on AZ to all those that want to learn, but I don't force anyone to learn...it's up to them to learn. To date, I've been the one teaching, as I have only learned one thing in return....that one thing is that I know there's hope for this industry as a whole because I've been so impressed with the mechanics that have stuck around here on AZ and put up with my teaching methods.

On the OTHER hand Rob, you have brought NOTHING to this forum, other than your idea that you're as good as I am....without having any insight as to what it takes to be a great mechanic.

See, in my mind, in order to be a great mechanic....you have to be able to TEACH them skills to others, in order for them to pass them skills on to even more others!!!!!

And Rob, YOU....are all about "I'..."I"...."I"..."I"....am just as good as Glen....but Rob....only in YOUR mind!

From this point on Rob....I'm done with you, as you are a waste of my time, and are going to continue on the path that you're on....to disaster!

 

[TableTek]

Jeez, I sure hope no one knows how to copy and paste? What is Iwan's email address again? Nevermind, here it is. You are a riot, I could get you to say or do anything....just need to get ya riled up enough. Very professional, way to represent the industry.

BTW, I knew we would end like this from the beginning. Now you made a fool out of yourself and I have a cool rant send around cyberspace.

When is your next conference anyway, I want to book now so I am on time?

 

[ROB.M]

Gj

Jeez, I sure hope no one knows how to copy and paste? What is Iwan's email address again? Nevermind, here it is. You are a riot, I could get you to say or do anything....just need to get ya riled up enough. Very professional, way to represent the industry.

BTW, I knew we would end like this from the beginning. Now you made a fool out of yourself and I have a cool rant send around cyberspace.

When is your next conference anyway, I want to book now so I am on time?

-
-

good job, its gonna be a invite only now....
>just hang it up
-
Robert Molina

 

[Mr. Wilson]

The argument stops here.

Rob, you're on a dangerous path. keep it up.