Zen and the Art of Pool

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Out walking my dog (Zimba) this morning I came across a group of Zen archers practicing Kyudo (Zen archery) and sat down against a tree to watch. I was struck by the slow, methodical, ritualized "preshot routine" they all used, the way it led to the extreme focus they seek, and how similar it all is to pool.

After awhile Zimba reminded me that I had lost focus on our objectives - a goose to chase and the usual places to pee - so we went our way. But it left me wondering if anybody has tried approaching pool shots using the ritualized focusing techniques of Zen archery or anything like that. It looks like a pool preshot routine on steroids with funny outfits - what's not to like?

Anybody do something like this, or know somebody who does?

Oh, Zimba only accomplished one of his goals - I wouldn't let him chase the geese across the school lawn (I never do, but he always hopes this will be the time). And was it just my imagination, or did he seem to be a little more ritualistic about his peeing, and maybe even hitting his targets a little more accurately than usual? Maybe we both came away with something new.

pj
chgo
 
I taken the marital artist approach to pool playing a few years ago. So, this also includes the study of ZEN.

I try to incorpate some of the training ideas used in marital arts into my practice. Such as, just hitting balls over and over with no thought, no judgement, no nothing, just the motion of making a shots for long periods of time. Like just pulling and releasing a arrow over and over with no thought about the target.

There are alot of concepts in Zen that apply to pool. One is just being in the moment which equals to making a shot in pool. There is only this shot and nothing else, no pass shot and no future shot, just this shot.

I could go on and on cause this is a subject that is important to me.

I suggest "Zen in Maritals Arts" by Joe Hyams, "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee and "The Elements of Zen" by David Scott and Tony Doubleday to give you some idea the value Zen can have in your pool playing.
 
Bob Callahan said:
I touched on this a little in an old post:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2530161&postcount=14

Do you know about this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Pool-Awaken-Master-Within/dp/0741440393
Click to expand...


Just to be clear, Max's book has very little to do with Zen. I was under the assumption that focus, concentration, emotion, etc. would be some of the topics covered. Instead, the book is more of a fundamental starting point that covers things like your stance, the stroking line, the tangent line, and other topics like that. It's a good read and I recommend it to players who want to elevate their game by mastering the fundamentals, but the mental aspect is touched on only briefly in the book.
 
CJ Wiley has always talked about his martial arts and ARCHERY background as being big factors in why he is so good and why he is able to focus so well.
 
duckie said:
I try to incorpate some of the training ideas used in marital arts into my practice. Such as, just hitting balls over and over with no thought, no judgement, no nothing, just the motion of making a shots for long periods of time. Like just pulling and releasing a arrow over and over with no thought about the target.
Click to expand...

I do this lots. Mindless pool, but in a good way. When you toss wadded up paper in the waste basket, you don't think about it lots...you just let your brain do what it knows best. I bet everyone here remembers shots they've missed because they overthought them! One of my older pool playing buddies used to often say, "Think long--think wrong"

duckie said:
I suggest "Zen in Maritals Arts" by Joe Hyams, "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee and "The Elements of Zen" by David Scott and Tony Doubleday to give you some idea the value Zen can have in your pool playing.
Click to expand...

I have the first two of those, and highly recommend them.

9BallMarksman said:
Just to be clear, Max's book has very little to do with Zen. I was under the assumption that focus, concentration, emotion, etc. would be some of the topics covered. Instead, the book is more of a fundamental starting point that covers things like your stance, the stroking line, the tangent line, and other topics like that. It's a good read and I recommend it to players who want to elevate their game by mastering the fundamentals, but the mental aspect is touched on only briefly in the book.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I hadn't read it, but thought the title sounded interesting.

I wonder how good this is:

http://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Small-Motions-Mastering-Billiards/dp/1585745391

This is a great book:

http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Te...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284836014&sr=1-1
 
duckie said:
I taken the marital artist approach to pool playing a few years ago. So, this also includes the study of ZEN.

I try to incorpate some of the training ideas used in marital arts into my practice. Such as, just hitting balls over and over with no thought, no judgement, no nothing, just the motion of making a shots for long periods of time. Like just pulling and releasing a arrow over and over with no thought about the target.

There are alot of concepts in Zen that apply to pool. One is just being in the moment which equals to making a shot in pool. There is only this shot and nothing else, no pass shot and no future shot, just this shot.

I could go on and on cause this is a subject that is important to me.

I suggest "Zen in Maritals Arts" by Joe Hyams, "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee and "The Elements of Zen" by David Scott and Tony Doubleday to give you some idea the value Zen can have in your pool playing.
Click to expand...

Good, sound comments. Focusing and being in the moment are key elements, for sure. Mindful breath work is very important and quite helpful for quieting the mind and relaxing the muscles.
 
Bob:
I touched on this a little in an old post:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpo...1&postcount=14
Click to expand...
In that post you mention "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel, the original "Zen in the Art of" book which spawned many others ("Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", etc.). I don't know anything about it, but FYI Herrigel's book has been criticized as being overly mystical and inaccurate in some ways (see "The Myth of Zen in the Art of Archery").

Do you know about this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Pool-Awake.../dp/0741440393
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have that, but it's not really about Zen in pool (as 9BallMarksman said).

I wonder how good this is:
http://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Smal.../dp/1585745391
Click to expand...
I have that too. I like it, and its message is probably similar to Zen in some ways.

This is a great book:
http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Ten...4836014&sr=1-1
Click to expand...
I've been meaning to read it. Thanks for reminding me.

I'd like to somehow directly relate the principles of kyudo to pool. Maybe I should contact the master of a local kyudo school and see what he has to say about it...

pj
chgo
 
9BallMarksman said:
[/SIZE]

Just to be clear, Max's book has very little to do with Zen. I was under the assumption that focus, concentration, emotion, etc. would be some of the topics covered. Instead, the book is more of a fundamental starting point that covers things like your stance, the stroking line, the tangent line, and other topics like that. It's a good read and I recommend it to players who want to elevate their game by mastering the fundamentals, but the mental aspect is touched on only briefly in the book.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, the book was good but I was expecting a little more of what you described.
 
Being in the moment is all important, and MUCH easier to talk about than to achieve. I've had some success controlling my own pea brain in this respect by applying the exact opposite philosophy of concentrating on being in the moment. I'll pass it on to you all and see if it is helpful for any of you.

That being, give total focus and concentration to the thought or thoughts that are distracting you instead. Once you do this, and your mind is comfortable with the attention you have given them, (at least for me) I'm able to get back to that "in the moment" zone with less distraction.

For me it is much easier than fighting the feeling of wanting my mind to wander. Just don't do this while you are in your stance. Get up with the specific notion to focus on your distraction.

One other thought I'd like to throw out there on this subject, is that you can't be in the moment, so to speak, unless your mind has a complete picture of what you want to accomplish.

That includes the exact part of the pocket you want to hit, the exact part of any object ball you may be contacting after your shot with the CB, and of course the exact path to the resting place of the CB among whatever other things are necessary to complete the shot.

I think a lot of us take those things for granted and don't really complete the mental picture for our brains to act on.

You don't even have to be right on all that stuff, so long as the mental picture is drawn each time and there are no puzzle pieces either missing or left to any degree of mental question as you set up for your shot.

Once you've given attention to your distractions and you've drawn a complete mental picture of the shot, at least for me executing it is a lot easier.

I only play these days once or twice a week, a few hours at a time. ( The older I get the less energy I have) but I'm able to get myself through 3 or 4 racks of straight pool when I settle in doing this.

Bottom line, if at all possible, condition yourself at least to remember not to take the importance of detail lightly. Most of us aren't pros and this stuff doesn't just come automatic.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
...Herrigel's book has been criticized as being overly mystical and inaccurate in some ways (see "The Myth of Zen in the Art of Archery").
Click to expand...

Gosh. Little did I know when I got up this morning that I'd be reading a document from the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies in a pool forum. I thought I had some strange links in my bookmarks, but am overwhelmed by your apparent deep love and research into Japanese culture--especially for a book you haven't even read!

I think that criticism of the book is probably right, but like so many things in the non-scientific realm--and occasionally in the scientific one--I pay more attention to the spirit of the thing, rather than its literality.

If only such careful scrutiny was applied to so much that is said and written about pool....

While we're all sort of listing books about Zen mental aspects, maybe this should be added to the mix:

http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Keys-Success-Long-Term-Fulfillment/dp/0452267560

I own it, too.

Your move.
 
Very interesting topic, Pat. Sadly, Pleasures of Small Motions, which I've read three times, didn't help me much. The Inner Game of Tennis and Mental Toughness Training for Sports I got a lot out of.
I'm quite sure I've been thinking too much when at the table lately, which might explain my missing a lot.
 
I use Jeet kune do techniques for developing my powerbreak.......

heres the wiki to simplify the idea

The one inch punch is a skill which uses fa jin (translated as explosive power) to generate tremendous amounts of impact force at extremely close distances. When performing this one inch punch the practitioner stands with his fist very close to the target (the distance depends on the skill of the practitioner, usually from 0-6 inches). A quick movement of the wrist produces the force needed, the wrist is held with the knuckles facing out on a horizontal axis, the wrist is then moved up and a strike is produced with the bottom two knuckles.


The way I carry my momentum and SNAP right in the miliseconds prior to contact and it helps to generate MUCH power w/o much excess or extravagant movement like you find in some of the power breakers......i try and direct my energy as pure and stick it all in the 1 ball....like as if i threw a lightning rod at it and tried to light it up....

i know i'm a looney tune.....but most players I know need at a minimum the 7 out so it is what it is.....

i got a big boy break for a small fella and thats one of the reasons why.....

hit em' like a ninja,
-Grey Ghost-
 
greyghost said:
...The one inch punch...
-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Yes! Exactly. Absolutely. I used to teach the one-inch punch, and it uses very same techniques that helped me develop a decent break a few years back. I don't break that way anymore, because I've decided I'd rather break like Donny. :grin:

The basic biomechanics of throwing (you are actually throwing your cue, you know) is explained well in this:

http://www.coachr.org/biomechanics.htm

Especially relevant is the stuff in the "Implications for the Coach" section.

There is a biomechanical problem with the summation of forces approach though--generally, the more joints involved, the less accurate the motion, since movement errors are additive.
 
Bob Callahan said:
Gosh. Little did I know when I got up this morning that I'd be reading a document from the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies in a pool forum. I thought I had some strange links in my bookmarks, but am overwhelmed by your apparent deep love and research into Japanese culture--especially for a book you haven't even read!
Click to expand...

LOL. I read it first because it's short and I thought it might give me some insight into what the book is about - it only does in some ways. I brought it up as something that might interest you, not to debunk the book.

Your move.
Click to expand...
If we're making "moves" I'll pass.

pj
chgo
 
greyghost said:
I use Jeet kune do techniques for developing my powerbreak.......

heres the wiki to simplify the idea

The one inch punch is a skill which uses fa jin (translated as explosive power) to generate tremendous amounts of impact force at extremely close distances. When performing this one inch punch the practitioner stands with his fist very close to the target (the distance depends on the skill of the practitioner, usually from 0-6 inches). A quick movement of the wrist produces the force needed, the wrist is held with the knuckles facing out on a horizontal axis, the wrist is then moved up and a strike is produced with the bottom two knuckles.


The way I carry my momentum and SNAP right in the miliseconds prior to contact and it helps to generate MUCH power w/o much excess or extravagant movement like you find in some of the power breakers......i try and direct my energy as pure and stick it all in the 1 ball....like as if i threw a lightning rod at it and tried to light it up....

i know i'm a looney tune.....but most players I know need at a minimum the 7 out so it is what it is.....

i got a big boy break for a small fella and thats one of the reasons why.....

hit em' like a ninja,
-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Hi there,

easy said: It s all about acceleration-nothing else.
And when it depends on acceleration it doesn t matter if you re *a small boy* Keebie^^

on-topic: There are many books explaining how to *use* mental parts (especially if we re talking about material arts). And if we take the example of archery, you could also easily say, that you have to BELIEVE.
If you have perfectly trained/drilled you fundamentals, you should be sure about them- and then you re able to *JUST DO YOUR JOB* and this is nothing else than executing the stroke! You can be the mentally strongest weekend-warrior on this planet- without the mechanical fundamentals you ll be just a guy who ll be sometimes lucky enough to do some things right-but never consistantly.

The unconcsious mind was and will be always the one of the most important part of this game(if not THE most importan). And some guys have it a bit easier to deal with it, after reading one of those books. There are many psychological workouts for sports. But unfortuneatly too many players give a shit on it :) and for sure beside them the other part spending too much time on it before having fundamentals.

just my opinion,

lg
Ingo
 
Sorry Keeb, but the origin of power in the 'one inch punch' does not come from the wrist.

For any of you who want to know about martial art, you must study the 'Do' aspect. Too many people never get past the surface...... powerful techniques, superior fighting skill, who can beat who in a cage. That's not what martial art is meant for.

Technique is not the primary focus of martial art.

It is about the mastery of one's self.

Ultimately, martial art is about overcoming the fears that strangle your potential to find true happiness, making the world a more livable place to be in for both you and the ones who surround you.

This is why everyone should practice martial art; however, many people fail to grasp the real essence of martial art because of E G O.
 
I took archery in college and once rolled up a dollar bill and stuck it in the haystack. After a couple of arrows sent toward it, I nailed it in it's center.

I was close on the other shots and I wouldn't have tried it if I didn't think that I could.

Pool has many more variables than distance and wind as does archery.
Many poolplayers also play cards and in order to win, one has to focus on all of the elements as well as the opponent/s. When you lose focus, your game suffers.

Thats my Zen.:smile:
 
"many people fail to grasp the real essence of martial art because of E G O."

Thank you. We often fail to grasp the real essence of LIFE... because of E G O.
 
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