Oops I did it again (Yapp's) foul in a final, a second time!

Sharivari has a good video discussing the shot and showing 8-first and 4-first shots. In each case the cue ball follows the ball it hit second. That is for shots that clearly hit one ball first.

A very general principle in physics says that as the incoming line of cue ball is very gradually changed from hitting one ball first to the other ball first, the final path of the cue ball will smoothly vary from one direction to the other. These in-between directions happen when the cue ball is in contact with the two balls simultaneously. The contacts are not instantaneous. They last about 0.2 milliseconds or 200 microseconds, or about a tenth as long as tip-ball contacts.

The "normal" situation is that the contact begins with one of the object balls, the cue ball and first object ball acquire their new speeds and directions, and then the cue ball leaves contact with the first ball. It travels a little distance and then contacts the second ball.

The unusual situation is when the cue ball is still in contact with the first ball when it hits the second. The two contacts overlap in time. This is pretty rare, because the duration of each contact is so short.

A reasonable way to decide which was first for overlapping contacts is to see which of the "normal" paths the cue ball is closer to. This requires you to know what the normal paths are. A very simple case it when shooting directly between two frozen object balls. If the cue ball comes perfectly straight back, you hit the balls simultaneously. If it goes even slightly to either side, that tells you which was struck first. I have seen the cue ball come back within a couple of degrees of straight back, but never perfectly straight back.

I think the positions of the balls for the shot in question was pretty complicated and it was not easy to predict the exact paths of the cue ball for various sequences of hit. Maybe a video review would have helped, but I doubt that the actual collisions would have been in separate frames. The frames are typically around 10 milliseconds apart and only very expensive equipment could see the actual ball-ball contacts.

Just so I understand, are you saying you think there were scenarios where the CB could have followed the path it did with anything other than hitting the 4b first so that absent high-speed video you would not be able to determine if it was a foul or not?

As an aside, I really wish they had shown an overhead view of the hit, a view they clearly had but did not show.

2026 World Snooker Championship: April 18 - May 04

It's that time of the year!

Qualifiers going on now, and the main even starts next Saturday.

Like last year, you can watch on WST Play if you're in America.

My bets

View attachment 896844
View attachment 896845
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It’s shocking how mean the odds you were offered, sir.

Right now over here in England those same players are…

Xintong at 2.5 to 1

O Sullivan at 8.6 to 1

Yize at 21 to 1

Guodong at 89 to 1

Oops I did it again (Yapp's) foul in a final, a second time!

People keep saying this is a foul based on where the cue ball went, which I understand. But I am also curious where the cue ball would go if it is a simultaneous hit and there was spin on the cue ball, and if simultaneous hits are considered legal by these rules.
Sharivari has a good video discussing the shot and showing 8-first and 4-first shots. In each case the cue ball follows the ball it hit second. That is for shots that clearly hit one ball first.

A very general principle in physics says that as the incoming line of cue ball is very gradually changed from hitting one ball first to the other ball first, the final path of the cue ball will smoothly vary from one direction to the other. These in-between directions happen when the cue ball is in contact with the two balls simultaneously. The contacts are not instantaneous. They last about 0.2 milliseconds or 200 microseconds, or about a tenth as long as tip-ball contacts.

The "normal" situation is that the contact begins with one of the object balls, the cue ball and first object ball acquire their new speeds and directions, and then the cue ball leaves contact with the first ball. It travels a little distance and then contacts the second ball.

The unusual situation is when the cue ball is still in contact with the first ball when it hits the second. The two contacts overlap in time. This is pretty rare, because the duration of each contact is so short.

A reasonable way to decide which was first for overlapping contacts is to see which of the "normal" paths the cue ball is closer to. This requires you to know what the normal paths are. A very simple case is when shooting directly between two frozen object balls. If the cue ball comes perfectly straight back, you hit the balls simultaneously. If it goes even slightly to either side, that tells you which was struck first. I have seen the cue ball come back within a couple of degrees of straight back, but never perfectly straight back.

I think the positions of the balls for the shot in question was pretty complicated and it was not easy to predict the exact paths of the cue ball for various sequences of hit. Maybe a video review would have helped, but I doubt that the actual collisions would have been in separate frames. The frames are typically around 10 milliseconds apart and only very expensive equipment could see the actual ball-ball contacts.

Oops I did it again (Yapp's) foul in a final, a second time!

What I'm noticing as a general theme on these "was the ref wrong" threads, is that people care less and less. At first, it was: "can you believe the ref made the wrong call, he should be fired, the player should have called the foul on himself as well" sort of reactions. Now, it's more: "the ref might have gotten it wrong, but his call is final, and that's just the way the game is played".

Its no big deal, its just a judgment call that's sometimes wrong.
The big conversation is the fact that the shot turned out to be so critical. If this had happened in game 2 nobody would be talking about it. I've lost sets that were very close or you see a mistake I may have made on my final game. it looks like that's why I lost.
Realistically I don't kid myself. I may have made mistakes or missed a ball or two in the beginning of the set that put me in that position in the first place.
You failed to get out and he wins that game and runs a rack or two. That's a big swing over one miss ball that you may end up never making it up and lose the set by like two games.

Wood porn on a Monday??? Hey Joey

Hi Everybody , I haven"t posted for a while but here are a few cues I did . Walnut burl that I got from a person in hudson ma. Nice spalted maple burl that I got from a retired person that owed a sawmill in pembroke N.H. Both cues I resin inpregnated with my own set up. last one is ambona burlwood I got like 15 years ago. Carbon fiber shafts I finished up from foam fiiled tubes. wood inserts at the joint end with matching ring work.
and ferrulles and tips
Nice looking work. 👍

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