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Top five 9Ball Players of all time?

Jaden
sjm said:
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Josh is currently my favorite player, but it is WAY TOO early to add him to best of all time conversations and to put him ahead of Shane at this point, is prima facie ridiculous.

My suggestion is that you make a list of major titles that Shane has won. You'll see that it pales by comparison to the list compiled by Josh, and Shane has been at it for 20 years to Josh's 10.

At 29, Josh has won more majors than Shane did in his entire career. Shane is, notably, missing the China Open (every bit as hard to win as the US Open 9ball until recently, possibly harder) and is missing nearly all of the ten ball majors (most notably the Las Vegas Open, Bali Open, Qatar Open, World 10ball). Josh has won the gold medal at the World Games and Shane has not. Each has a World 9ball and a World 8ball, but Shane has just one WNT major outside of the World 9ball (Florida Open) while Josh has three (2 UK Opens and 1 European Open). Josh has won the WPA World Teams Championship 10ball and Shane has not. Whether you look at the 9ball majors or the 10ball majors, Josh has outshone Shane by quite a bit.

Shane's five US Open 9balls is awesome, legendary indeed, but so is Filler's 1 US Open, 3 China Opens and 1 World Games gold. To that point of the comparison, there's a discussion, but Josh has also won major championships all over the globe on a very regular basis and Shane has not. That's why Shane is missing so many of the majors on his resume and Josh is not.

Finally, in Shane's words [Josh has schooled him for most of Josh's career].

Do your homework and you'll see that it's Shane that is not even in the conversation.

Now, that said, I'm listening if you want to suggest that Sigel has a better resume than Josh. Mike is the only player that can be reckoned top five of all time in both straight pool and 9ball and that's an awfully high standard for anyone to match. There's only one Mike Sigel.
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Still don't agree. When Shane was dominating there weren't any where near as many tourneys as there are now and Shane is still a danger to win any of them.

Give it another 5 or 10 years with Josh doing what he's doing and I'll agree with you, but I'm sorry, he's not there yet.
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Looking for a photo of Ray “Cool Cat” Martin’s 1976 Szamboti

M
hand made points do not match up perfectly. and cues were made mostly for playing and only so much time could be put in for the price of something not of great importance to the player. as nowadays.
george made mine for like about 100 bucks in a short time. colored points, ebony, leather wrap. one shaft. free newspaper and bag.
threw away the papers still holding the goods.
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Top five 9Ball Players of all time?

M
best tournament player of all time, or best player of all time. two different scenarios .

some of the absolute best did not play in many tournaments, so do not have a record of wins in perfect playing conditions.

filler and svb is far the best by records i guess. but how would they fair against lassiter, willis, searcy, worst, in say virginia assuming both in their primes playing for all their own money
on hot humid summer days no air conditioning.

efren and parica would do fine
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Top five 9Ball Players of all time?

Rocket354
sjm said:
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Josh is currently my favorite player, but it is WAY TOO early to add him to best of all time conversations and to put him ahead of Shane at this point, is prima facie ridiculous.

My suggestion is that you make a list of major titles that Shane has won. You'll see that it pales by comparison to the list compiled by Josh, and Shane has been at it for 20 years to Josh's 10.

At 29, Josh has won more majors than Shane did in his entire career. Shane is, notably, missing the China Open (every bit as hard to win as the US Open 9ball until recently, possibly harder) and is missing nearly all of the ten ball majors (most notably the Las Vegas Open, Bali Open, Qatar Open, World 10ball). Josh has won the gold medal at the World Games and Shane has not. Each has a World 9ball and a World 8ball, but Shane has just one WNT major outside of the World 9ball (Florida Open) while Josh has three (2 UK Opens and 1 European Open). Josh has won the WPA World Teams Championship 10ball and Shane has not. Whether you look at the 9ball majors or the 10ball majors, Josh has outshone Shane by quite a bit.

Shane's five US Open 9balls is awesome, legendary indeed, but so is Filler's 1 US Open, 3 China Opens and 1 World Games gold. To that point of the comparison, there's a discussion, but Josh has also won major championships all over the globe on a very regular basis and Shane has not. That's why Shane is missing so many of the majors on his resume and Josh is not.

Finally, in Shane's words [Josh has schooled him for most of Josh's career].

Do your homework and you'll see that it's Shane that is not even in the conversation.

Now, that said, I'm listening if you want to suggest that Sigel has a better resume than Josh. Mike is the only player that can be reckoned top five of all time in both straight pool and 9ball and that's an awfully high standard for anyone to match. There's only one Mike Sigel.
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I agree Josh is great and the best player today, and entering the conversation for greatest of all time. But a few points:

1) you use 10b titles in response to a 9b ranking list. That is disingenuous.
2) you use WNT titles, a fairly recent metric, to compare a player at his peak to a player who peaked before WNT was a thing. That the post-peak player still has done amazingly well in his 40s vs the crop of hotshots in their 20s is a point in his favor.
3) Related to number 3, there are significantly more titles in general to be won nowadays, which is advantageous to those who are currently at their peak.
4) World Games gold medal? Really? That was Josh vs nobodies because only Josh (which is to his credit) cared enough to travel and compete for no real financial gain. That you feel necessary to use that as supporting evidence actually detracts from your point.
5) Teams championship? In 10b?? This is a single-player 9b discussion. Another piece of evidence that detracts from your point.

Given how much of your argument lies in games other than 9b, and in titles that didn't exist during Shane's peak, I am less convinced than I was before reading that post that Josh is better than Shane at 9b. And I'm someone fully on the Josh bus for best player of this generation.
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