I’ve been in a league for about five years that has all ball fouls. There are less disputes and drama than you think. Sure occasionally there may be a dispute, but it is usually resolved without much of a problem. If it is a stalemate they just re-rack. Only saw that happen once.

A shirt touching isn’t a foul. Moving it with a shirt is. Hard to do and rare.

Worrying about boobs moving a ball is no different then a guys fat belly so equally still stands.

Again outliers are possible but rare, but moving the ball with a hand or stick is common and what this rule is for. I played APA and TAP before and I found it more irritating to play someone and watch the carelessly bump and move balls while making a shot. No penalty or consequences to get an easier shot. Balls get moved with a silly whoops. If you can’t make the shot without disturbing the table don’t take the shot or try and accept the foul if you fail.

dr_dave said:

FYI, I just posted a new video that discusses and demonstrates why all leagues should follow the WPA official rules of pool, including “All Ball Fouls,” where it is a foul if you touch or move the CB or any OB, even by mistake, at any time during play. Check it out:

Login to view embedded media ​

Contents:
0:00 - Intro
0:52 - All Ball Fouls
2:36 - CB Fouls Only
6:06 - Why Switch to “All Ball Fouls”
11:01 - Proper Behavior
16:40 - Other Possible Rule Changes
18:21 - What Do You Think?

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!

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Dr. Dave,

I learned about pool in 1961 and endeavored to put object balls in the designated pocket on 9’ and 10’ tables.
I never saw any 7’ pool tables in the pool halls in NYC but you could find 7’ tables in bars with quarter slots or
maybe in a youth center. So I learned about pool basically in the pool halls in Bklyn, Manhattan and Bronx.

Nobody went to Staten Island back then and the only way to get there was by Ferry. The last burrough, Queens, was basically industrial enterprises back at that time, despite having apartment complexes like LeFrak City. I used to play pool at George Balabushka’s room in Bay Ridge and Ovington Billiards, aka Hall of Fame Billiards later on and Ames in Times Square. I never saw anyone play a game of pool where it wasn’t a foul if you inadvertently touched a ball, except the cue ball during a stroke.

No one was calling a foul because you leaned across the table to reach the cue ball and your neck tie was hanging and barely brushed another OB under your chest completely unknown to you. Nope, that was chicken shit. I don’t know if the rules at that time even covered it. What I know is if you touched any ball during a game, aside from racking, you committed a foul & your opponent could take the table as is or ball in hand in the kitchen for 8, 9 ball, 1 pocket, rotation or 14.1. All my life I have subscribed to the belief that’s how pool should be played and the popularity of 7’ tables & ball in hand fouls seems like changing the height of a basketball hoop to be lowered but still qualify for professional sports. It makes pool more enjoyable for recreational play but gosh, a lot easier. So I welcome the change but BIH still remains. If we want pool games to be faster and with more runouts, then BIH is necessary for broadcasting & tournaments too.

Now just like MLB needs ABS (automatic balls & strikes) due to miserable umpiring the last few years, the introduction
of a pitcher and batter time clocks has been a great thing. WPA should adopt it & so should local leagues. It is absurd how much time a player can take evaluating how to play their shot. And then after taking an agonizingly long time, well over a minute, then the player calls a time out. And that always takes more than a minute because you have to summon someone to coach the player on what to do. It is absolutely a tediously slow process so time clocks are also needed for leagues…..45 seconds……for the player or a time out……seems more than adequate. I’m likely in the minority on this change and with league players, I don’t think they’ll be embracing WPA’s new any ball touch foul rule.

skor said:

Leagues were always aimed at amateur players.
Serious players should focus more on tournaments with no handicap.
Of course that one can keep playing league if wish, it’s about having some fun. But if you don’t enjoy it then don’t play

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Bob Jewett said:

A small nit... The BCA is not a pool league. It is a manufacturers organization. It has essentially no player members. It is the North American member of the WPA.

The BCAPL is a pool league. That's what the PL stands for. The BCA part stands for nothing. It's just letters. The BCAPL belongs to CSI (Cue Sports International, an American company headquartered in Las Vegas). The USAPL also is a league system that belongs to CSI.

The BCA had a league system from about 1983(?), Around 2005, it sold that system to Mark Griffin. Griffin founded CSI. The BCA sued Mark Griffin to stop him from using the old name of the league. The BCA lost the court case as they had agreed at the time of the sale that Griffin could continue to use the name for brand recognition. Or, that's the reported story.

It is CSI that would have to be convinced that a profit could be made from serious pool players on 9-foot tables. Well, maybe not. Alternatively, convince the BCA -- the governing body of pool in North America -- that a league of more serious players on 9-foot tables is a good idea.

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So, I notice your signature "SF Billiard Academy". I lived in the Bay Area for 30 years. I am imagining a nice hall, lots of players, some really good that study seriously. Sounds like the kind of place to be. Nice to know some of the halls there survived covid. The couple of places I used to like in San Mateo/RWC area closed down I think.

NCC1515 said:

I've done tips on three 'kielwood' shafts now and all three shafts have had clear finish applied end to end.

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Are they the same brand? That’s a waste of some great wood. I love mine, super smooth and plays great.

Zero finish.

leagues are whacky

Bob Jewett said:

A small nit... The BCA is not a pool league. It is a manufacturers organization. It has essentially no player members. It is the North American member of the WPA.

The BCAPL is a pool league. That's what the PL stands for. The BCA part stands for nothing. It's just letters. The BCAPL belongs to CSI (Cue Sports International, an American company headquartered in Las Vegas). The USAPL also is a league system that belongs to CSI.

The BCA had a league system from about 1983(?), Around 2005, it sold that system to Mark Griffin. Griffin founded CSI. The BCA sued Mark Griffin to stop him from using the old name of the league. The BCA lost the court case as they had agreed at the time of the sale that Griffin could continue to use the name for brand recognition. Or, that's the reported story.

It is CSI that would have to be convinced that a profit could be made from serious pool players on 9-foot tables. Well, maybe not. Alternatively, convince the BCA -- the governing body of pool in North America -- that a league of more serious players on 9-foot tables is a good idea.

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Interesting, thanks for the history! I can see it isn't likely to change...

Sheldon said:

Too many league players already wield the rules as a cudgel. All ball fouls would just hand them an extra one.
I get the intent, and it would be nice if it worked out like we know is should, but I don't see it happening.

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That’s a good way to describe the rules mavens that bother me. I typically call them rules mavens or rules nits. They get away from their duties on the HOA by playing league and sometimes are correct on a rule.

dr_dave said:

I thought more people might have some input or an opinion on this post. Should the non-Masters-division APA leagues adopt "No Ball Fouls" and get rid all of the rules that tend to cause misunderstandings, disagreements, arguments, and bad feelings?

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You seem fond of the straw man debate technique..,

L.S. Dennis said:

It's all speculation at this point It could have ended up with a series of safety play, but had Jasmine been able to control the cue ball on the break this would have been academic. But given that dead combo was a stroke of luck, Stevie Wonder could have seen that, but maybe one cancels the other who knows. One of best women's matches I can remember seeing in quite some time. We'll leave it at that...

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Agreed. An entertaining match for sure.

Just received your plain jane. The photo really doesnt do this cue justice. Thank you Dave. His communication and help me, a newcomer was top-notch. Will not be my last cue from Dave.

IMO the value in those Macs and Viks is "you like the look".

I gotta say there are those technical intellects throughout the leagues and being accosted that way is a major annoyance. Thankfully no leagues currently. No need to schedule around, ignore, or otherwise avoid.

alphadog said:

Aren't they maple?

Ask in the table mechanic forum.

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The skirts are fiberglass and are located below the apron. On many tables they were removed and on later models tables they were not provided as part of the build.

I'd get all the 200 dollar cues that ever caught my eye...

I can't help here, but please keep us up to date on how this very cool restoration comes along!