Should league finals be held on barboxes?

[ShootingArts]

some thoughts

Some thoughts:

Obviously as you now realize, the Valley nationals are going to be played on Valley tables. You can largely take away the advantages of the seven foot specialists by really focusing on bar box play for a few weeks before going to the nationals though.

I don't know what the break rules are, winner breaks, loser breaks, alternate breaks, but assuming you get a shot at the table in the match, the better player has a huge edge on a bar box too. The bar box is far more about cue ball control than the big table. Whoever controls the cue ball best should win on the bar box even more so than on a big table.

Speaking of cue balls, I would seriously consider using the championship cue ball for at least a month before the nationals even on the big table. Again, you need to absolutely own the cue ball when you get to the nationals.

Hu

Keep the votes coming.

Here are the main points I'm getting so far:

1. It's meaningless to even worry about it because it's simply not practical to play on 9 footers. I agree with Jude on this. There were 100+ tables in this room and it simply would not fit enough 9 footers without making it a weeklong event. At which point your tables and cloth are not only pricier, but your hotel cost. It's pure fantasy to even hope for such a thing.

2. Play on the same equipment as what you used during the season: If somehow #1 didn't apply, I'd still be stumped here. Our breakdown is like this -
2 locations: we play on 9's
1 locations: we play on 8's
3 location: we play on 7's

Since our home base is one of the 9 footer locations, we end up playing on those more than the others but it's probably close to 50/50 for 9 vs not-9.

3. We ought to be on valley barboxes because it's a valley sponsored league and that's how it's supposed to be played: I didn't realize this and have no explanation as to why we get to play on non-valley 9's and 8's sometimes

4. No matter what my particular local setup is, the majority of players in the majority of leagues are playing on bar boxes: This sounds right to me. Asking me to adjust to a barbox is much more fair than asking a guy with no 9-footer experience to play on 9 footers. It'd be a heist. And maybe we're hurting ourselves by playing on 9's when we know the finals will be barboxes. I'd probably enjoy league less if I had to play 100% small tables though. I'm not even sure that I'd stick with it. I know some players (shane) say barbox 8-ball is great but I'm not getting into it.

5. Smaller tables do favor weaker players, but that's ok, that's what keeps it interesting and gives them a fair shot at the money: I'll buy this one. I guess you could think of it as a "spot" we give to them. We don't handicap the games as in regular season play so this is the next best option, to take pure shooting ability out of the picture and make it more about brains (though I'd argue it's more about luck of the post-break layout than it is about brains).

... sounds like bottom line is it all comes back to point #1, and I'd better learn to play on a barbox if I want to play league with any hopes of winning something. It's tough though. Even though actual league matches are 50/50 between 9-footers and smaller tables... my casual games are 100% 9 footers. So I'm probably playing.. .I dunno, 40 or 50 games on a 9 footer and 4 on a barbox each week.

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

The local 8-Ball League only plays on (mostly crappy) barboxes and
most of the players wouldn't know how to act around a "real" Pool Table,
not to mention the only 9-footers are located 30 miles away.

 

[LPHooper03]

I shoot out of Iowa. We play on Valley's around here. I find the pockets to be as big as buckets some times. I consider my strong point to be my cue ball control...my weak spot (if you can even call it weak) is my ball pocketing skills. So I am constantly playing on the 9' to sharpen my aim. If I play on the 9' I am running out racks like nothing on the 7' Valley.

I personally would LOVE it if at the Iowa State Championship they would use Diamond 7'. That would be great. The better player should truly win and I think a LOT of shots made on the Valley shouldn't have been pocketed if it had to travel another foot, or if it was rolling on a Diamond Smart.

I use to shoot in league in Houston, TX. We played at Fast Eddies on nothing but 8' tables. When I heard that nationals was on 7' Bar Boxes...I had to laugh. Valleys can be fun, don't get me wrong. They can even be super challenging. But they make for *extremely* challenging 1 pocket matches.

 

[softshot]

VNEA Valley National Eight ball Association..

a league run by amusement companies championing barbox eight ball on valley tables (their product)

you are upset that the finals is a barbox eight ball tournament?????

the nationals is too BTW..

just sayin

 

[CreeDo]

yeah, I saw that earlier. I guess I can't complain if it's to promote their product and the players are just along for the ride :/

In theory, the better cue ball controller should always win. But that's just not how it went down. :/

I could see dudes get wrong on every single ball. They'd shake their head and act mad and then drill 'em anyway. Massive corner pockets.

I'll admit we coulda just been overmatched, I just feel a lot of games ended up being random. The break format is alternate, each player gets 2 breaks out of his 4 games. The breaker randomly makes a ball or not (there's no surefire ball that I can see), and if he goes he gets the better group and the other guy is stuck taking heroic measures to move balls out of bad spots.

It's hard to even replicate the playing conditions because it's not just that it's 7 footers, but brand new cloth and springy rails (to give you an idea of how foreign the rails were... last year, to make the standard corner-to-corner 3 rail shot, I had to hit below the side pocket with 'normal' running english to keep it from going too wide). Our local ones are beat and it's still not quite the same. Maybe the solution is to get there early and just play 100 matches on them until we feel warm. At about 1.25 a game though it gets pricey.

I guess I'm full of excuses but if I'm being honest my real main problem is it's just not as fun as playing a 9 footer. I ran out much more on the 9 footer even though people swear you can supposedly get out more on a barbox. Maybe that's only at a certain skill level that I haven't reached yet.

 

[ShootingArts]

not a skill level, a little different style

It isn't really a skill level, it is a different style of play as has already been said. Also something I do may have bitten you and your team. Playing almost entirely on 9 footers myself, when I get on bar boxes the range is close and the pockets are huge. I can cheat the pockets massively and take all kinds of liberties I can't take on a moderately tough nine footer. Next thing I know I am taking too many liberties or getting a little sloppy and start missing on that tiny bar box that I didn't quite give the respect it deserved.

Hu

yeah, I saw that earlier. I guess I can't complain if it's to promote their product and the players are just along for the ride :/

In theory, the better cue ball controller should always win. But that's just not how it went down. :/

I could see dudes get wrong on every single ball. They'd shake their head and act mad and then drill 'em anyway. Massive corner pockets.

I'll admit we coulda just been overmatched, I just feel a lot of games ended up being random. The break format is alternate, each player gets 2 breaks out of his 4 games. The breaker randomly makes a ball or not (there's no surefire ball that I can see), and if he goes he gets the better group and the other guy is stuck taking heroic measures to move balls out of bad spots.

It's hard to even replicate the playing conditions because it's not just that it's 7 footers, but brand new cloth and springy rails (to give you an idea of how foreign the rails were... last year, to make the standard corner-to-corner 3 rail shot, I had to hit below the side pocket with 'normal' running english to keep it from going too wide). Our local ones are beat and it's still not quite the same. Maybe the solution is to get there early and just play 100 matches on them until we feel warm. At about 1.25 a game though it gets pricey.

I guess I'm full of excuses but if I'm being honest my real main problem is it's just not as fun as playing a 9 footer. I ran out much more on the 9 footer even though people swear you can supposedly get out more on a barbox. Maybe that's only at a certain skill level that I haven't reached yet.

 

[supergreenman]

yeah, I saw that earlier. I guess I can't complain if it's to promote their product and the players are just along for the ride :/

In theory, the better cue ball controller should always win. But that's just not how it went down. :/

I could see dudes get wrong on every single ball. They'd shake their head and act mad and then drill 'em anyway. Massive corner pockets.

I'll admit we coulda just been overmatched, I just feel a lot of games ended up being random. The break format is alternate, each player gets 2 breaks out of his 4 games. The breaker randomly makes a ball or not (there's no surefire ball that I can see), and if he goes he gets the better group and the other guy is stuck taking heroic measures to move balls out of bad spots.

It's hard to even replicate the playing conditions because it's not just that it's 7 footers, but brand new cloth and springy rails (to give you an idea of how foreign the rails were... last year, to make the standard corner-to-corner 3 rail shot, I had to hit below the side pocket with 'normal' running english to keep it from going too wide). Our local ones are beat and it's still not quite the same. Maybe the solution is to get there early and just play 100 matches on them until we feel warm. At about 1.25 a game though it gets pricey.

I guess I'm full of excuses but if I'm being honest my real main problem is it's just not as fun as playing a 9 footer. I ran out much more on the 9 footer even though people swear you can supposedly get out more on a barbox. Maybe that's only at a certain skill level that I haven't reached yet.

Fact: an experienced player will run out more often on a 9foot table because there is more room for error.

One thing I do want to point out is that as Jude says they spend about 20min per table setting up for the bigger tournaments. For the most part they do a pretty good job, however, you'll find the tables will have rolls, it's a given and you have to add that into your adjustments.

In other words..... slow rolling of a ball must be done as a last resort. A nice crisp confident hit is ideal for these tables.

 

[Black-Balled]

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