Europe rocks
- Thread starter berry
- Start date
I think home court advantage plays a big role.
The US Open has a massive star-studded field with many international champions. In the last ten years, it's been won seven times by an American.
1999- Archer
2000- Strickland
2001- Deuel
2003- Jones
2004- Owen
2006- Schmidt
2007- Van Boening
The US Open has a massive star-studded field with many international champions. In the last ten years, it's been won seven times by an American.
1999- Archer
2000- Strickland
2001- Deuel
2003- Jones
2004- Owen
2006- Schmidt
2007- Van Boening
Hu/Roy...as you are friendly with each other and we don't want to see a falling out....if you don't mind Uncle Mike playing referee.....you are both right to a degree...
Hu......obviously The British Isles are not and never have been part of mainland Europe but it is nevertheless an inescapable and indisputable fact that the countries making up The British Isles are geographically a part of the continent of Europe in the same way that the islands which make up the country of Japan are geographically a part of the continent of Asia. It is therefore not wrong to refer to The British Isles as being "in Europe" or to their inhabitants as being "European" in the same way that the Japanes people are Asian.
As far as pool goes the definition is clarified by the main body under which British Isles resident/nationality pool players operate....it is "European" so they are "European".
Roy....speaking as a proud Scot and Brit I can say without fear of much contradiction that, irrespective of the above geographical classification and pool bodies etc, the vast majority of the people of The British Isles have always considered themselves a different entity from the collective peoples inhabiting the countries of mainland Europe, very much as Hu implies, and when a Brit refers to "Europe" he is normally thinking of it, whether rightly or wrongly, as in effect one big entity which doesn't include England, Scotland, Ireland, or Wales.
The European Economic Union may have had some initial effect on slightly changing the man in the street's perceptions of that but to most Brits, in practice, Europe is a different foreign land where Brits go on holiday or do international business with or....to be brutally honest....get together with to form sporting teams to contest events (Ryder Cup etc) in which we Brits might otherwise be unable to be competitive with our opponents on our own.
That is not however to say that teams from individual European countries or British Isles countries could not be competitive on their own at pool events. It depends upon the country concerned, the event, who the opposing country is and the pool of available talent at any given time.......it changes.
Hope this helps.
Hu......obviously The British Isles are not and never have been part of mainland Europe but it is nevertheless an inescapable and indisputable fact that the countries making up The British Isles are geographically a part of the continent of Europe in the same way that the islands which make up the country of Japan are geographically a part of the continent of Asia. It is therefore not wrong to refer to The British Isles as being "in Europe" or to their inhabitants as being "European" in the same way that the Japanes people are Asian.
As far as pool goes the definition is clarified by the main body under which British Isles resident/nationality pool players operate....it is "European" so they are "European".
Roy....speaking as a proud Scot and Brit I can say without fear of much contradiction that, irrespective of the above geographical classification and pool bodies etc, the vast majority of the people of The British Isles have always considered themselves a different entity from the collective peoples inhabiting the countries of mainland Europe, very much as Hu implies, and when a Brit refers to "Europe" he is normally thinking of it, whether rightly or wrongly, as in effect one big entity which doesn't include England, Scotland, Ireland, or Wales.
The European Economic Union may have had some initial effect on slightly changing the man in the street's perceptions of that but to most Brits, in practice, Europe is a different foreign land where Brits go on holiday or do international business with or....to be brutally honest....get together with to form sporting teams to contest events (Ryder Cup etc) in which we Brits might otherwise be unable to be competitive with our opponents on our own.
That is not however to say that teams from individual European countries or British Isles countries could not be competitive on their own at pool events. It depends upon the country concerned, the event, who the opposing country is and the pool of available talent at any given time.......it changes.
Hope this helps.
Last edited:
Don't quiz me on the particulars, but in a tournament match with Owen about a year ago he had some sort of breakdown and started banging his forehead on the rail after a missed ball, hard enough that he cut up his forehead. Now there's someone who can use a sports shrink. Someone can probably post the link to the thread, I'm clueless in matters of AZ search.
Berry, maybe I would think differently if I knew what pool schools actually were in the Netherlands or other places in Europe(youth programs, shrinks and coaches), but I cannot get over the mental barrier I have of knowing that I play better than every pool "coach" I've ever met. What can they teach someone who can already play? A player with talent just needs to learn how to win. How do you win when you know you are not playing your best? When you know your opponent will win if given another shot? When you've never won before? When you're scared to lose or win? The answer can only be found by putting your feet to the fire. Shrinks and coaches may be able to try to verbalize these feelings, but nothing works better than life lessons. JMO.
Here is a link to a youtube description.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHAIXzO0r9c
:smash::speechless::shrug:
Terry
Whoa! That's insane. A similar thing is said to have happened with Onofrio Lauri in a match in the 30's, it was the final of the world's 14.1 and Lauri was about to beat Ralph Greenleaf for the title, Lauri needed 2 balls to win and he was so nervous that he shot at a ball that wasn't really there! He imagined it was there so he shot at nothing. Greenleaf stepped up and ran out the match for the title. Lauri started banging his head against the wall and later it was said he tried to jump off a pier and Mosconi and Caras had to physically stop him. What's with those Italians and banging their heads?
These is absolutely a joke...
In WPC 9 Ball you always have about 11-13 spots thats about 10% of the field of 128 players. I remember on year after the Group stages you have NO players in the last 64 everyone was eliminated that's a sign that you have to take seriously. On the other hand the Taiwanese had 15 out of 17 in the last 64 and the Phillipinos 11 out of 15or16 in the last 64. They get the extra spots from the qualifing events btw.
On WC straight pool when Ortmann won against Hudjee See I thought it was a joke calling it a World championship you had 38 American players in a 64 players field and only Danny Harriman made it to the semifinals.
In the US Open that USA have great success you also have the most players how many foreign players come for the US open about 30-40?? and that's a 256 players field.
You have good players but the rest of the World has catch up.
Yes it absolutely was a joke.
Yes the rest of the world has caught up.
berry's question was what are we (americans going to do about it).
ANSWER: Why do we have to DO anything about it since we are still competitive?
No Euro's have answered ANY of the questions I asked in my 1st post on this thread. Why is that? Where is the Euro money in pool? Why are asians and Americans expected to always provide the tournaments for international competition?
berry's initial question seemed innocent enough but his later posts seem to indicate from his and from other Euros posts that we americans should just "roll over and die", just "give up". Yeah right! WHAT happens to all those successful euro and asian players incomes then if we do, huh?
Terry
I like the way you think, Tbeaux. Well said, and a resounding TAP, TAP, TAP!
:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
mostly silly fun
Mike,
It is mostly in fun. Roy can not seem to grasp the geographic concept of an ISLAND!
As for part of a continent or not, it gets tricky. Asia for example swings a very wide loop as to what is considered part of Asia. I think few would consider some of the islands a valid part of the actual continent. All major land masses in the world were once one with the exception of a few volcanic islands, a possible earthquake born few and one or two composed entirely of poop so I suppose I could lay claim to almost anywhere being part of the North American continent too.
However you very clearly pointed out the real rational behind my ragging. England once proudly stood alone. However England and Europe are now perfectly content to combine their resources to compete with the US in pool and elsewhere.
Hu
Mike,
It is mostly in fun. Roy can not seem to grasp the geographic concept of an ISLAND!
As for part of a continent or not, it gets tricky. Asia for example swings a very wide loop as to what is considered part of Asia. I think few would consider some of the islands a valid part of the actual continent. All major land masses in the world were once one with the exception of a few volcanic islands, a possible earthquake born few and one or two composed entirely of poop so I suppose I could lay claim to almost anywhere being part of the North American continent too.
However you very clearly pointed out the real rational behind my ragging. England once proudly stood alone. However England and Europe are now perfectly content to combine their resources to compete with the US in pool and elsewhere.
Hu
Hu/Roy...as you are friendly with each other and we don't want to see a falling out....if you don't mind Uncle Mike playing referee.....you are both right to a degree...
Hu......obviously The British Isles are not and never have been part of mainland Europe but it is nevertheless an inescapable and indisputable fact that the countries making up The British Isles are geographically a part of the continent of Europe in the same way that the islands which make up the country of Japan are geographically a part of the continent of Asia. It is therefore not wrong to refer to The British Isles as being "in Europe" or to their inhabitants as being "European" in the same way that the Japanes people are Asian.
As far as pool goes the definition is clarified by the main body under which British Isles resident/nationality pool players operate....it is "European" so they are "European".
Roy....speaking as a proud Scot and Brit I can say without fear of much contradiction that, irrespective of the above geographical classification and pool bodies etc, the vast majority of the people of The British Isles have always considered themselves a different entity from the collective peoples inhabiting the countries of mainland Europe, very much as Hu implies, and when a Brit refers to "Europe" he is normally thinking of it, whether rightly or wrongly, as in effect one big entity which doesn't include England, Scotland, Ireland, or Wales.
The European Economic Union may have had some initial effect on slightly changing the man in the street's perceptions of that but to most Brits, in practice, Europe is a different foreign land where Brits go on holiday or do international business with or....to be brutally honest....get together with to form sporting teams to contest events (Ryder Cup etc) in which we Brits might otherwise be unable to be competitive with our opponents on our own.
That is not however to say that teams from individual European countries or British Isles countries could not be competitive on their own at pool events. It depends upon the country concerned, the event, who the opposing country is and the pool of available talent at any given time.......it changes.
Hope this helps.
Hu,
First just a teensy little gripe of my own. "England" isn't casually or formally inter-changeable with the term "Great Britain" or "The United Kingdom" or "The British Isles" and the nationality "British" does not mean "English". It's bad enough that many of the English often seem to assume the above inter-changeability without you guys over the pond jumping on the bandwagon
There are many fine British sportsmen, including pool and snooker players, who are not English. The Scottish, the Welsh and the Irish hold their own in many sports, relative to the respective populations. The Scottish are particularly snarly about this subject but then again that has been in their blood for a very long time.....the only Roman Legion to ever venture up there during the age in which their occupying armies were the best armed and most efficient fighting machines known to man completely disappeared, never to be heard of again..........I think we may have eaten them
The British Isles have always been a bit of a complication in a sporting sense and still are, not just for "European" aspects. It goes deeper than just the relationship between The British Isles and Europe.
When participating in The Olympics, all individuals and teams are "British" but in the biggest sporting event on the planet, soccer's World Cup, we are five separate teams comprised of Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire. We are four (only one "Ireland" team) separate teams in Rugby Union internationals yet only one British team in Rugby League internationals......and so on.
I think that for quite some time yet we will continue to see anomalies and inconsistencies in British and European team nationality aspects in all sports as it is an ever evolving situation. You and Roy may be able to revisit this subject in a future in which the set-up is different again from what it is now. If you do I've no doubt you will both still have your tongues firmly in your cheeks and will keep us entertained as you have done here
First just a teensy little gripe of my own. "England" isn't casually or formally inter-changeable with the term "Great Britain" or "The United Kingdom" or "The British Isles" and the nationality "British" does not mean "English". It's bad enough that many of the English often seem to assume the above inter-changeability without you guys over the pond jumping on the bandwagon
There are many fine British sportsmen, including pool and snooker players, who are not English. The Scottish, the Welsh and the Irish hold their own in many sports, relative to the respective populations. The Scottish are particularly snarly about this subject but then again that has been in their blood for a very long time.....the only Roman Legion to ever venture up there during the age in which their occupying armies were the best armed and most efficient fighting machines known to man completely disappeared, never to be heard of again..........I think we may have eaten them
The British Isles have always been a bit of a complication in a sporting sense and still are, not just for "European" aspects. It goes deeper than just the relationship between The British Isles and Europe.
When participating in The Olympics, all individuals and teams are "British" but in the biggest sporting event on the planet, soccer's World Cup, we are five separate teams comprised of Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire. We are four (only one "Ireland" team) separate teams in Rugby Union internationals yet only one British team in Rugby League internationals......and so on.
I think that for quite some time yet we will continue to see anomalies and inconsistencies in British and European team nationality aspects in all sports as it is an ever evolving situation. You and Roy may be able to revisit this subject in a future in which the set-up is different again from what it is now. If you do I've no doubt you will both still have your tongues firmly in your cheeks and will keep us entertained as you have done here
The game of pool was invented by some blokes in a pub. However, it was a little primitive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0G6C02uQ9U :grin-square:
Please! Children!
Stop all this divisiveness!
Remember, most of us are in NATO.
Now get back to your history and geography studies, because you are obviously failing.
Stop all this divisiveness!
Remember, most of us are in NATO.
Now get back to your history and geography studies, because you are obviously failing.
yeah, lets team up against the rest of the world and send only one team to the WPC....
anyhow what is the problem again? We do not have big tournaments except Eurotour in Europe, since pool is not a real pro sport here.. still we have a lot of successful international players that get trained from youth age from professional coaches and through trainings systems and so on
Maybe the US lack soething like that? You have so much more of a "pool" of players t ochoose from, it must be possible to get some new stars into the world of US pool??
that is bad!
Mike,
That is bad of me, I did think of "British" and "English" as being interchangeable. I'm about half Scots-Irish and I definitely don't think of myself as half British! That old two peoples divided by a common language thing.
A sincere apology! I do object to being called a yank or yankee being an unreconstructed rebel from the deep south myself.
Hu
Mike,
That is bad of me, I did think of "British" and "English" as being interchangeable. I'm about half Scots-Irish and I definitely don't think of myself as half British! That old two peoples divided by a common language thing.
A sincere apology! I do object to being called a yank or yankee being an unreconstructed rebel from the deep south myself.
Hu
Hu,
First just a teensy little gripe of my own. "England" isn't casually or formally inter-changeable with the term "Great Britain" or "The United Kingdom" or "The British Isles" and the nationality "British" does not mean "English". It's bad enough that many of the English often seem to assume the above inter-changeability without you guys over the pond jumping on the bandwagon
There are many fine British sportsmen, including pool and snooker players, who are not English. The Scottish, the Welsh and the Irish hold their own in many sports, relative to the respective populations. The Scottish are particularly snarly about this subject but then again that has been in their blood for a very long time.....the only Roman Legion to ever venture up there during the age in which their occupying armies were the best armed and most efficient fighting machines known to man completely disappeared, never to be heard of again..........I think we may have eaten them
The British Isles have always been a bit of a complication in a sporting sense and still are, not just for "European" aspects. It goes deeper than just the relationship between The British Isles and Europe.
When participating in The Olympics, all individuals and teams are "British" but in the biggest sporting event on the planet, soccer's World Cup, we are five separate teams comprised of Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire. We are four (only one "Ireland" team) separate teams in Rugby Union internationals yet only one British team in Rugby League internationals......and so on.
I think that for quite some time yet we will continue to see anomalies and inconsistencies in British and European team nationality aspects in all sports as it is an ever evolving situation. You and Roy may be able to revisit this subject in a future in which the set-up is different again from what it is now. If you do I've no doubt you will both still have your tongues firmly in your cheeks and will keep us entertained as you have done here
There goes the mention of pool school again...I laugh everytime I hear this because I have a mental image of Rip Torn (patches) from Dodgeball throwing pool balls at a blindfolded Ralf Souqet.
We don't have a US Open or a DCC, but we have the Eurotour which consist of 7 yearly tournaments with a total pricefund of more than $ 400,000
There are many tournaments around Europe that pays between $ 5,000 and $ 10,000 in first place, and we have a couple of tournaments, like a tournament in Spain that pays $ 15,000 first price.
There's also dozens of minor "leagues" all over Europe. (6-10 yearly tournaements in one country).
Just because they aren't listed on AZBilliards doesn't mean they do not excist.
On top of that the European company Matchroom Sports puts up the World Pool Masters, World Cup of Pool, World 9-ball Championships and the Mosconi Cup. In total these tournaments pays out atleast $ 700,000 a year, and all of them are broadcasted either live or recorded on many major tv-companies worldwide.
I wish we had tournaments like US Open and DCC, but I think it is perhaps harder for European tournaments to get sponsors, because snooker is more popular over here. Why should companies sponsor pool when they can use the same amount to sponsor the tv-sport snooker?
I would also like to add that many countries in Europe do get funds from the governments, and use those funds to do poolschools & practicecamps, send players to European Championships, World Championships etc.
For example: The Norwegian Pool Federation receive about $ 250,000 a year from the government. These money can not be used freely, but has to be spent on certain things.
There is a program called "Equipment support" which are paying part of the expences poolclubs around Norway have when buying equipment like tables, cloth or balls. (These funds are only for poolclubs run like organizations, not private companies)
We have a general secretary who works with all kind of things trying to get pool more in media, working with sponsors, organize when players are going to European Championships and World Championships etc.
We also have a national coach, Jorgen Sandman, who works fulltime being a coach for Norwegian poolplayers. He travels around the country giving lessons to poolclubs and also youth clubs.
About 5 times a year he has practice camps with the players who are in (or almost in) the National Team, this includes youths, men and women. All expences paid for the players.
There is lots of other projects and stuff going on, and the goal is that pool shall grow in Norway and that Norwegian poolplayers are going to be more competative, but most important, to get more youths to play.
For example: The Norwegian Pool Federation receive about $ 250,000 a year from the government. These money can not be used freely, but has to be spent on certain things.
There is a program called "Equipment support" which are paying part of the expences poolclubs around Norway have when buying equipment like tables, cloth or balls. (These funds are only for poolclubs run like organizations, not private companies)
We have a general secretary who works with all kind of things trying to get pool more in media, working with sponsors, organize when players are going to European Championships and World Championships etc.
We also have a national coach, Jorgen Sandman, who works fulltime being a coach for Norwegian poolplayers. He travels around the country giving lessons to poolclubs and also youth clubs.
About 5 times a year he has practice camps with the players who are in (or almost in) the National Team, this includes youths, men and women. All expences paid for the players.
There is lots of other projects and stuff going on, and the goal is that pool shall grow in Norway and that Norwegian poolplayers are going to be more competative, but most important, to get more youths to play.
LOL!! That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!