Europe rocks

[Roy Steffensen]

I like the way you think. That's a great idea!

I'd rather, though, see USA versus, say, Germany or USA versus Norway, as opposed to one country, the United States, versus the entire European Union consisting of 27 member states.

During Mosconi Cup USA is not fighting against the European Union, but Europe. It does mean that Team Europe can choose from more than 50 countries, not the 27 countries that are members of the political European Union.

I would still bet on Europe if USA weren't team USA but Team North America.

 

[ShootingArts]

Continent?

Dear SJM, to include the 14-1 at DCC is not something I would do when doing a summary like this, even if Darren won it last year I don't look at it as a major event, and if that is included, so should The One Pocket Challenge, imo.

I would ATLEAST add Turning Stone, which Ralf Souquet won.



First: I would bet on Germany top 5 against USA top 5.

The bet is who will finish first in actual events not top five. Still like Germany?

Second: I would bet on Europe vs North America.

I would bet the rest of the world against Rhode Island. You are making my point when you want to bet all of Europe against the US and two countries.

Third: England has never been a continent of it's own, but always been included in Europe.

England is part of an island off the coast of Europe. Geographically speaking it has never been part of Europe, or not since the dawn of man to be picky. When the sun never set on the british empire they were very proud to make that distinction. Now that they are comparatively weak they are happy to function as a part of Europe. With the evolving of language a continent is also defined as a political grouping but that is a fairly recent definition of the word. Under that definition England is now part of Europe.

Hu

To be in the European Union is something completely different, and many countries in Europe has chosen not being a member of the EU, including Norway. They are however still members of Europe, the continent, just like England has always been.



I forgot to add that most of the spots EPBF are granted can be taken by any country, including USA. The finalists of each Eurotour is given a spot in the World Championships, 7 tournaments, and these tournaments are open to everyone. When the season is finished they will pick the rest from the ranking of the Eurotour, open for anyone, then 8 players will be picked from the results in the European Championships. These 8 are locked for Europeans only because the EC is a competition between ALL countries in Europe.

I believe what USA (North America?) needs is a STRONG tour like the Eurotour, with a proper ranking, spots for World Championships etc.

I do think it is a bit early in the year to say what continent is better than another, but based on the last couple of years I do believe Europe has performed better in major tournaments than Asia and North America.

.....................

 

[Roy Steffensen]

The bet is who will finish first in actual events not top five. Still like Germany?

If Germany and USA had just as many players in the field, I would bet on a German to win the event.

I would bet the rest of the world against Rhode Island. You are making my point when you want to bet all of Europe against the US and two countries.

I am betting on one continent vs another continent. Both continents are very similar in size and population

England is part of an island off the coast of Europe. Geographically speaking it has never been part of Europe, or not since the dawn of man to be picky. When the sun never set on the british empire they were very proud to make that distinction. Now that they are comparatively weak they are happy to function as a part of Europe. With the evolving of language a continent is also defined as a political grouping but that is a fairly recent definition of the word. Under that definition England is now part of Europe.

England has as long as the term "continents" excisted, been part of Europe

Hu
.....................

Just my humble opinions

 

[Tbeaux]

Questions for the Euros......Ummm.......With the exception of the European championships which is of course "European", where are you're "International Events"?

Why are all the Eurpoean players having to travel or move to the USA in order to make a living?

Why are all the real money tournaments in the USA and asia?

Are these cookie cutter pool federations government sponsored or are they just a nation based version of our apa system?

Why does Berry ignore the Mosconi cup record?

my edit- What happens to billiards in the rest of the world if the United States fails to continue providing most of the little funding that's available?

There are good players everwhere.

Terry < says wait till the Chinese start to take a real interest in pool.

 

[billbOK]

Hu, my friend,

Don't you confuse between geography and politic ? England has always been geographicaly european since Europe is called Europe.

So is my country, wich is not in the European Union...

Is this concept so hard to understand ?:frown:

 

[DangerousDave]

It's silly that people can't evaluate the strength of players from Europe and the USA rationally. Why this 'national pride' crap?

You were born where you were born by chance, an accident you had nothing to do with - no reason to be proud of it.

I'd take Europe in this one, and I don't think they'd need an eagle (or blind loyalty to the homeland) to prevail.

 

[Tbeaux]

fun: With the World Pool Masters comming up I love to see all those world class American players in action... but wait a minute..

First round

Match 1. - Alex Pagulayan (Philippines) v Nick van den Berg (Holland)
Match 2. - Johnny Archer (USA) v Imran Majid (England)
Match 3. - Shane Van Boening (USA) v Yu Ram Cha (Korea)

Saturday, May 9, 2.00pm

Match 4. - Niels Feijen (Holland) v Tony Drago (Malta)
Match 5. - Ralf Souquet (Germany) v Ruslan Chinakhov (Russia)
Match 6. - Darren Appleton (England) v Raj Hundal (India)

Saturday, May 9, 7.00pm

Match 7. - Dennis Orcollo (Philippines) v Alain Martel (Canada)
Match 8. - Mika Immonen (Finland) v Fu Jianbo (China)

They only choose old (with great respect) Archer and the Shane in this Championships...

You can see this as a sign, or root USA ALL THE WAY only during the first round...

Uhmmmmm.....berry, the World Pool Masters is a 16 player invitational, 2 players are American. 14 other top players from other countries. What's you're point?

 

[Tbeaux]

facts: WC 10-ball:

2008 Darren Appleton GBR

WC 9-ball:

2008 no Men
2007 Daryl Peach (ENG)
2006 Ronnie Alcano (PHI)
2005 Chia-Ching Wu (TPE)
2004 Alex Pagulayan (CAN)
2003 Thorsten Hohmann (GER)

WC 8-ball:

2008 Ralf Souquet (GER)
2007 Ronnie Alcano (PHI)
2005 Chia-Ching Wu (TPE)
2004 Efren Reyes (PHI)

WC Straightpool:

2008 Niels Feijen (NED)
2007 Oliver Ortmann (GER)
2006 Thorsten Hohmann (GER)

Yep...not too many american players in the WCs in recent years.

 

[flyvirginiaguy]

One thing about American pool is there is really no big gain in spending your life playing pool. I love the game, started playing it when I was about 8 or so. Played good enough at 16 to say I probably would have made it in pool. However, without pool, and attending college instead, I make a MUCH better living than I ever would have at pool. I only play now for the love of the game, but certainly not to make some living at it.
So one must ask, how many more young people out there who also see this and go a different route other than pool in life.
It is not even treated as a true sport here, people may ask, what do you do for a living? "Well I play pool". And you would get the response, so do you plan on playing a game all your life? Whereas we look up to baseball, football, and basketball players. It is not the case with a pool player. For instance Luther Lassiter, who is probably one of the greatest ever having died without having gained to much monetary value in life (as compared to his accomplishments).
Pool will ALWAYS be what it is (or less) without outside sponsorship and a different outlook on it here in the U.S.
And as many people there is who play billiards of some kind here in the U.S., I am very surprised it is still what it is. It says we are certainly doing things wrong in our sport.

 

[Cameron Smith]

In the 2007 world 9 ball championship there were 12 players from the US.

Phillipines had the most with 13.

The BCA supposedly represents North America, Canada had 6 spots.

In 2008 the World 14.1 Championship had a field of 64 players, 39 were Americans. Although many of the spots were decided through qualifiers, almost all were held in the US.

But if you look at the results and locations of the tournaments, the home players are often the ones that do best. It's no coincidence that the moment the WPC was moved to Taiwan three Taiwanese players made it to the finals, one of them winning. The next two years in the phillipines, two phillipinos made it to the finals, one winning.

Prior to these moves, Europe and the US dominated the WPC.

 

[Bobby]

Ah, yes, where is the USA on the pool map in 2009?

The year is young, but there have been six events with an internationally diverse field.

Derby City Nine Ball
Shane Van Boening (USA) beat Lee Van Corteza (Asia) in the final

Derby City One Pocket
John Schmidt (USA) beat Scott Frost (USA) in the final

Derby City Bank Pool
John Brumback (USA) beat Rodolfo Luat (Asia) in the final

Derby City Straight Pool
Danny Harriman (USA) beat Darren Appleton (Europe) in the final

Derby City 10-Ball
Lee Van Corteza (Asia) beat Ralf Souquet (Europe) in the final

Valley Forge 10-Ball
John Schmidt (USA) beat Corey Deuel (USA) in the final

So, in the first six significant events having a diverse, international field, the USA has won five of them. Asia the other. USA, Asia and Europe have two second place finishes each.

That's where the USA is in 2009, fella.

tap tap tap

 

[ShootingArts]

looks like an island to me!

Just my humble opinions

Roy,

In the days of yore when I went to school Great Britain was an island off the coast of Europe. England was a country located on Great Britain.

(Wikipedia)
Great Britain lies to the northwest of Continental Europe, with Ireland to the west, and makes up the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom. It is surrounded by 1000 smaller islands and islets. It occupies an area of 209,331 km² (80,823 square miles).[7]

It is the third most populous island after Java and Honshū

(and the dictionary)
–noun 1. one of the main landmasses of the globe, usually reckoned as seven in number (Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and Antarctica).
2. a comparable landmass on another planet.
3. the mainland, as distinguished from islands or peninsulas.
4. the Continent, the mainland of Europe, as distinguished from the British Isles.

Great Britain is and has been a island off the coast of Europe. They didn't share a land connection or a common language. Now I suppose the tunnel could be called a land connection but it is man made. Most importantly, for centuries neither the people of Great Britain or Europe considered Great Britain part of Europe. Now it is a marriage of convenience including in the pool world.

Hu

 

[Gatz]

GO CANADA! :grin-square:

 

[sjm]

Dear SJM, to include the 14-1 at DCC is not something I would do when doing a summary like this, even if Darren won it last year I don't look at it as a major event, and if that is included, so should The One Pocket Challenge, imo.

I would ATLEAST add Turning Stone, which Ralf Souquet won.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this, Roy. Players never face off against each other in the one pocket challenge, which, though a great event, makes it a gimmick event.

Contrastingly, the straight pool challenge, in which anyone can try to qualify, is an eight player single elimination event that is extremely difficult to win. This year, the standard was so high that neither Immonen nor Feijen was able to qualify. The last eight of Thorsten Hohmann, John Schmidt, Danny Harriman, Beau Runningen, Corey Deuel, Charlie Williams, Huidji See, and Darren Appleton consisted chiefly of proven giants in the 14.1 discipline.

I'm on board with Turning Stone, I just didn't think of it. Good call, and Ralf definitely put on a show in that one.

Incidentally, Roy, my views on the international balance of power in pool haven't changed. I just found the initial post to be strangely timed given the fine start to 2009 that the USA has enjoyed in the internationally diverse events.

 

[senor]

How different it is in Europe, many country's (states) have top players. Some country's have a special training program, special coaches, special youth programs, sport psychologist ect.

I can't believe noone has needled berry for this yet...berry, show me a pool player that needs or has used a sports psychologist and I'll show you a pool player that couldn't bet a dime of their own money w/o ending up like when Fabio Petroni met the End Rail

 

[Mr441]

I can't believe noone has needled berry for this yet...berry, show me a pool player that needs or has used a sports psychologist and I'll show you a pool player that couldn't bet a dime of their own money w/o ending up like when Fabio Petroni met the End Rail

What happened with Petroni?

 

[smokeandapancak]

I can't believe noone has needled berry for this yet...berry, show me a pool player that needs or has used a sports psychologist and I'll show you a pool player that couldn't bet a dime of their own money w/o ending up like when Fabio Petroni met the End Rail

Oh yeah....... He must have forgot that you have to be gambler in order to be considered any good.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Roy,

In the days of yore when I went to school Great Britain was an island off the coast of Europe. England was a country located on Great Britain.

(Wikipedia)
Great Britain lies to the northwest of Continental Europe, with Ireland to the west, and makes up the larger part of the territory of the United Kingdom. It is surrounded by 1000 smaller islands and islets. It occupies an area of 209,331 km² (80,823 square miles).[7]

It is the third most populous island after Java and Honshū

(and the dictionary)
–noun 1. one of the main landmasses of the globe, usually reckoned as seven in number (Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and Antarctica).
2. a comparable landmass on another planet.
3. the mainland, as distinguished from islands or peninsulas.
4. the Continent, the mainland of Europe, as distinguished from the British Isles.

Great Britain is and has been a island off the coast of Europe. They didn't share a land connection or a common language. Now I suppose the tunnel could be called a land connection but it is man made. Most importantly, for centuries neither the people of Great Britain or Europe considered Great Britain part of Europe. Now it is a marriage of convenience including in the pool world.

Hu

Ok, I get it now. So when you went to school in England there were these continents:

North America
South America
Europe
Africa
Australia
Asia
Antarctica
Great Britain

Can you please tell me when Great Britain became part of the continent of Europe then? Not talking about the European Union, which is something completely different, but the term Europe.

 

[billbOK]

It's silly that people can't evaluate the strength of players from Europe and the USA rationally. Why this 'national pride' crap?

You were born where you were born by chance, an accident you had nothing to do with - no reason to be proud of it.

I'd take Europe in this one, and I don't think they'd need an eagle (or bling loyalty to the homeland) to prevail.

Tap Tap Tap

Nothing to add...

 

[berry]

Wow boys and girls, what a respons to my thread....
Where to start my reaction on all your posts? because there is a lot of bs...

Things I dont like to discus: England is or isn't part of Europe? We have a bird as national sign, what do you have? Hé, I know a tournament a US player won? We don't have enough spots in the WC because we are one big country? If a sport psychologist is needed in the mental game of pool?

Thing I would like to discus:

USA didn't win any World Championship in the last 5 years (there has been 13). Why is this?

Lots of the top US players are already older players (with great respect), and I don't see many young American guns making it to the top. Why is this?

In Europe there are many pool programs with coaches, trainers, video equipment, sport psychologists, fitnes, ect. ect. Normal sport programs like you would see in every sport. There are also special pool youth programs!!
Now I don't know if there are any in the US? and who is initiating them?

Where are the youth players that are the future?

With great respect, and looking foreward to the next 4 pages,

Berry
National Youth Coach Netherlands