Europe rocks

[CreeDo]

It's silly that people can't evaluate the strength of players from Europe and the USA rationally. Why this 'national pride' crap?

You were born where you were born by chance, an accident you had nothing to do with - no reason to be proud of it.

I'd take Europe in this one, and I don't think they'd need an eagle (or blind loyalty to the homeland) to prevail.

Man I jumped all over the rep button for this one. I feel the exact same way. Pride should be reserved for the things you accomplished or the things you created. You can be proud of your stroke if you worked hard to develop it. You can be proud of your kid's accomplishments if you gave them the support they needed to be successful.

I don't care for posts that support a country (or support a player just because of where he was born). They usually aren't made with bad intentions but I do find them ...misguided. It's pretty obvious that threads like this will result in fighting. I'm sure this one already has some squabbles brewing.

I think people make these posts because they want to share in a little tiny slice of the glory that their favorite players bask in. They want to feel like they share some kind of special bond with that player and maybe share a little of the credit and respect the player receives. It's like their thinking follows one of the oldest logical fallacies in the book... "This player is great. He is european. I am european. Therefore I am great"

I don't mind if someone wants to give players respect and root for them. Maybe they have other players they DON'T want to see win. If I like SVB and hate Ralf, I will root for SVB obviously. But I won't try to claim SVB is great just because he was born in america, and I won't ever say Ralf is inferior just because he's German. I won't try to take any sort of credit just because a fellow american might win a title, and I refuse to draw some line in the sand and label SVB vs. Ralf as America vs. Germany. It's just SVB vs. Ralf. Tomorrow it might be Thorsten vs. Ralf, and then how much sense would it make to label it by country?

Sorry for the long boring story lol, don't mean to steer the thread into even more squabbling. It's just a topic I feel strongly about.

 

[ShootingArts]

there are no differences between Germany and the US

Well, maybe one. They had to build walls to keep people in, we have to build walls to keep people out!

More seriously, there is nothing wrong with being proud of your country. Just the opposite in fact. I feel bad for anyone that can't be proud of their country regardless of where they are from.

I'm American by birth and Southern by the grace of God but had the stork taken a left at Albuquerque there is no telling where I would have been born!

Hu

Man I jumped all over the rep button for this one. I feel the exact same way. Pride should be reserved for the things you accomplished or the things you created. You can be proud of your stroke if you worked hard to develop it. You can be proud of your kid's accomplishments if you gave them the support they needed to be successful.

I don't care for posts that support a country (or support a player just because of where he was born). They usually aren't made with bad intentions but I do find them ...misguided. It's pretty obvious that threads like this will result in fighting. I'm sure this one already has some squabbles brewing.

I think people make these posts because they want to share in a little tiny slice of the glory that their favorite players bask in. They want to feel like they share some kind of special bond with that player and maybe share a little of the credit and respect the player receives. It's like their thinking follows one of the oldest logical fallacies in the book... "This player is great. He is european. I am european. Therefore I am great"

I don't mind if someone wants to give players respect and root for them. Maybe they have other players they DON'T want to see win. If I like SVB and hate Ralf, I will root for SVB obviously. But I won't try to claim SVB is great just because he was born in america, and I won't ever say Ralf is inferior just because he's German. I won't try to take any sort of credit just because a fellow american might win a title, and I refuse to draw some line in the sand and label SVB vs. Ralf as America vs. Germany. It's just SVB vs. Ralf. Tomorrow it might be Thorsten vs. Ralf, and then how much sense would it make to label it by country?

Sorry for the long boring story lol, don't mean to steer the thread into even more squabbling. It's just a topic I feel strongly about.

 

[Celtic]

They only choose old (with great respect) Archer

Only he is not that old. He simply started dominating pool at a very early age. He is only starting in on his 40's, and that makes him the same age as Ralf, younger then Drago, younger then Martel, getting the point?

The USA also has Cory Deuel, who would be a threat in the World Pool Masters as well and was once the number 1 ranked pool player in the world. John Schmidt is also putting enough quality wins out there against world class fields that it would be hard to fault him getting selected to a field like the World Pool Masters.

BTW, your anti-americanism shines like a beacon, I imagine you also think they are destroying the world's envirnoment with CO2 emmisions? Get a new hobby, maybe get better at pool!

 

[Celtic]

SJM did not mention this event, which IMO is the biggest pool event in the world next to the world championships and always has an international field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Open_Nine-ball_Championship

America seems to be holding their own there.

 

[JAM]

SJM did not mention this event, which IMO is the biggest pool event in the world next to the world championships and always has an international field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Open_Nine-ball_Championship

America seems to be holding their own there.

Wow, whoever wrote that article really did a nice job!

 

[JAM]

...BTW, your anti-americanism shines like a beacon, I imagine you also think they are destroying the world's envirnoment with CO2 emmisions? Get a new hobby, maybe get better at pool!

That is exactly the way I read his initial post.

I agree with Hu (Shooting Arts) as far as patriotism. Why on earth should one not want to root for the home team? It's the very fabric of what sports is all about, at least here in the States.

New York Yankee fans think their team is the cat's meow, and Baltimore Orioles fans would rather fight than switch. Then there's the Boston Red Sox loyalty which is almost like a family tradition in some circles. Some industries make a lot of money on loyal fans.

As far as rooting for America, check out the Olympics. You can bet your bottom dollar, there will be a kazillion American fans waving the flag.

Winning isn't everything, but wanting to win is. -- Vince Lombardi

Yeah, that's the ticket. I've said it before, and I will most definitely say it right now, once again, and make no apologies for it:

USA, ALL THE WAY!

 

[smokeandapancak]

There is a HUGE difference between patriotism and blind partriotism.

I am a patriot.. I put on the uniform in several bad places all across this world b/c I love my country.

But....

I would still take the top 3 Germans against any top 3 from any nation in a 14.1 match.



Smoke<--loves his country...and his money.

 

[JAM]

And there's a difference between patriotism and gambling. Two different animals.

 

[smokeandapancak]

And there's a difference between patriotism and gambling. Two different animals.

Not within the context of this conversation....

 

[JAM]

Not within the context of this conversation....

Au contraire, it is EXACTLY the context of this conversation.

Has rooting for the home team now been reduced to which team is going to put more money in one's pocket? Not for me.

Believe it or not, there are MANY fans who pull for the home time and don't gamble one penny. It has nothing to do about money, but, rather, it's pride, patriotism, loyalty for one's favorite team, much like the OP expressed is thoughts about how superior he feels Europeans are to Americans in pool. I'll bet you a long shot, he's a European.

 

[JAM]

Here's a great example of my thoughts:

People become fans of a certain sports team for lots of different reasons. In honor of our guest-blogger, Jim Gimpel, I’ll stipulate that the most common reason is geography: If you’re an American and the U.S. hockey team is playing Canada, then those nice neighbors from the north are The Enemy and it’s cheer, cheer, cheer for the Good Old USofA. If you’re from the North Side, you’re likely to be fan of the Cubbies, but if you’re a South Sider, then it’s Go Go, Sox.

Of course, there are other reasons as well. I have a friend who’s a die-hard Cleveland Indians fan, even though, as far as I know, he’s never even set foot in that lovely city.

As for me, I cheer for teams with classy uniforms. That may be silly, but so are the other reasons why people cheer for certain teams. I don’t care at all about professional football, but when I see elegantly clad, fashion-plate teams like the San Francisco 49ers and the Oakland Raiders (maybe there’s something about the Bay Area — but consider the gold and green travesty of the Oakland A’s)), my heart starts going pitter-patter. They’re lookin’ GOOD. (Even the much despised Washington NFL team — whose team name is so awful that I refuse to utter it — Iooked great last season when they donned white pants.)

I grew up loving baseball, but never had a home team to cheer for. So the Dodgers and the Cardinals became “my” teams because their uniforms were so clearly superior to anything the opposition could muster. I never fell under the spell of he Yankee pinstripes, though I admit that their stripeless visiting grays are classy, and so are their hats. The Dodgers still look great, and so do the Cardinals when they’re not wearing those off-putting blue caps.

All the foregoing is simply to establish that I care how teams look. And that leads me to note one of the two most unappealing trends of the past decade or so in sports team uniforms. The one I’m not going to dwell on is the comically baggy shorts that many basketball teams, especially at the college level. The one that concerns me here, as it must any other baseball fashionista, is the tendency of today’s baseball players to wear their pants all the way down to the tops of their shoes — an abominaton that has robbed the game of the oh-so-aesthetically-pleasing sight of the stirrup overlaying the white sanitary hose, If you don’t know what I’m talking about, then (a) you are unaware of how far the once-dominant stirrup has fallen, in which case (b) I need to show you what you’re missing.

I could almost become a Yankee fan if Derek Jeter and his teammates would do the right thing and wear stirrups instead of tugging their pants legs down as far as they can possibly be tugged.

Source: http://www.themonkeycage.org/sports/ [Retrieved 1 May 2009]

Do you think I’m the only person on earth who could possibly care about such stuff? Wrong again!

 

[smokeandapancak]

Au contraire, it is EXACTLY the context of this conversation.

Has rooting for the home team now been reduced to which team is going to put more money in one's pocket? Not for me.

Believe it or not, there are MANY fans who pull for the home time and don't gamble one penny. It has nothing to do about money, but, rather, it's pride, patriotism, loyalty for one's favorite team, much like the OP expressed is thoughts about how superior he feels Europeans are to Americans in pool. I'll bet you a long shot, he's a European.

Ok...
As far as my input into the conversation, it fit the context.

as far as the underdog thing.. I am an Auburn Man and I pull for our sport teams no matter the odds...So I understand the loyalty aspect.

I would not however stand up a boast their greatness to the world if I knew they walking into a slaughter...(unless it was SPUAT, I hate those turd fans)


I am not European and I agree with his point... not the mode he used to express it mind you...

 

[smokeandapancak]

Here's a great example of my thoughts:

People become fans of a certain sports team for lots of different reasons. In honor of our guest-blogger, Jim Gimpel, I’ll stipulate that the most common reason is geography: If you’re an American and the U.S. hockey team is playing Canada, then those nice neighbors from the north are The Enemy and it’s cheer, cheer, cheer for the Good Old USofA. If you’re from the North Side, you’re likely to be fan of the Cubbies, but if you’re a South Sider, then it’s Go Go, Sox.

Of course, there are other reasons as well. I have a friend who’s a die-hard Cleveland Indians fan, even though, as far as I know, he’s never even set foot in that lovely city.

As for me, I cheer for teams with classy uniforms. That may be silly, but so are the other reasons why people cheer for certain teams. I don’t care at all about professional football, but when I see elegantly clad, fashion-plate teams like the San Francisco 49ers and the Oakland Raiders (maybe there’s something about the Bay Area — but consider the gold and green travesty of the Oakland A’s)), my heart starts going pitter-patter. They’re lookin’ GOOD. (Even the much despised Washington NFL team — whose team name is so awful that I refuse to utter it — Iooked great last season when they donned white pants.)

I grew up loving baseball, but never had a home team to cheer for. So the Dodgers and the Cardinals became “my” teams because their uniforms were so clearly superior to anything the opposition could muster. I never fell under the spell of he Yankee pinstripes, though I admit that their stripeless visiting grays are classy, and so are their hats. The Dodgers still look great, and so do the Cardinals when they’re not wearing those off-putting blue caps.

All the foregoing is simply to establish that I care how teams look. And that leads me to note one of the two most unappealing trends of the past decade or so in sports team uniforms. The one I’m not going to dwell on is the comically baggy shorts that many basketball teams, especially at the college level. The one that concerns me here, as it must any other baseball fashionista, is the tendency of today’s baseball players to wear their pants all the way down to the tops of their shoes — an abominaton that has robbed the game of the oh-so-aesthetically-pleasing sight of the stirrup overlaying the white sanitary hose, If you don’t know what I’m talking about, then (a) you are unaware of how far the once-dominant stirrup has fallen, in which case (b) I need to show you what you’re missing.

I could almost become a Yankee fan if Derek Jeter and his teammates would do the right thing and wear stirrups instead of tugging their pants legs down as far as they can possibly be tugged.

Source: http://www.themonkeycage.org/sports/ [Retrieved 1 May 2009]

Do you think I’m the only person on earth who could possibly care about such stuff? Wrong again!

Ok that really settles it...
I am so pulling for the Europeans guys b/c they dress so much better...:frown:

 

[smokeandapancak]

And dude... everybody knows that the proper way to wear your stirups is to actually stuff your pant leg into them...you dont let them peak out under your pant legs and you sure as shit dont push your pants down to the cleat tops...

 

[smokeandapancak]

Like this... though I prefer to show less sock and more striups
Classic

 

[JAM]

And dude... everybody knows that the proper way to wear your stirups is to actually stuff your pant leg into them...you dont let them peak out under your pant legs and you sure as shit dont push your pants down to the cleat tops...

Dude? Did you just call me DUDE? :shocked2:

Maybe we have a generational gap, but where I come from, dudes are guys.

Here's an interesting read about fan loyalty which came from the Boston Globe:

SPRING IS IN the air, and soon millions of people will begin streaming through turnstiles, flicking on the television, and gluing themselves to the radio to follow their beloved baseball teams. Possibly this includes you, gripped with anticipation as the Red Sox prepare for a new season. You might harbor a fondness for the good old days of Ted Williams; you might have warm feelings for the team you watched win the World Series a scant couple of seasons ago. Either way, you're throwing your loyalty and your energy behind the 2009 team.

In doing so, you're not just joining millions in the classic American fan experience. You're also staking out a position on an ancient philosophical problem, that of identity over time. And, if you're a real hometown loyalist, I'm sorry to say your position in this debate is not good.

Taking the other side in the debate is a motley array of spineless creatures. There are the fair-weather fans, those Johnny-come-latelies derided throughout the sports world for their disloyalty and penchant for leaving games early to beat the traffic. Even more despicable are the bandwagon jumpers, those fans who adopt whichever team is successful at the moment. They liked the Yankees in the 1990s; since then they might have rooted for the Angels, the Marlins, or the White Sox. They're mercenaries of the spectator world, reviled by all hard-core fans.

Well, hard-core fans, I have news for you: These spineless creatures are the only rational ones around....


Want to read more? Here's the link. It's actually quite well written: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/i...ief_inquiry_into_the_nature_of_sports_fandom/ [Retrieved 1 May 2009]

 

[smokeandapancak]

Actually the dude was directed to the writer of that article..

But I have called you dude before and I will again....it is a habit..

 

[Celtic]

But....

I would still take the top 3 Germans against any top 3 from any nation in a 14.1 match.

How did this become solely about 14.1, as long as we are going off on tangents I will take the Canadian Mens and Womens Curling teams in the Olympics and bet even money that both medal against the field. The Canadian teams are not even decided yet and I am still willing to risk it.

Regardless, Schmidt, Harriman and Sigel (if you could get him to bother) would not be much worse then a coin flip with Hohmman, Souquet and Ortman who are probably the top 3 Germans.

 

[ShootingArts]

have to be a little skeptical

How did this become solely about 14.1, as long as we are going off on tangents I will take the Canadian Mens and Womens Curling teams in the Olympics and bet even money that both medal against the field. The Canadian teams are not even decided yet and I am still willing to risk it.

Regardless, Schmidt, Harriman and Sigel (if you could get him to bother) would not be much worse then a coin flip with Hohmman, Souquet and Ortman who are probably the top 3 Germans.

I don't know if that is true. After Schmidt and Harriman murdered each other Sigel would be all alone to battle the three Germans!

Hu

 

[sjm]

SJM did not mention this event, which IMO is the biggest pool event in the world next to the world championships and always has an international field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Open_Nine-ball_Championship

America seems to be holding their own there.

Yes, in my post, entirely about the tournament scene of 2009, I failed to mention the US Open, perhaps because it hasn't been played yet. I'll get back to you in the autumn on that one.