Why Are Women Considered Inherently Inferior?

[Lea A]

I haven't read this whole thread...Is it true women aren't chiming in? I read a couple of posts on the first page and stopped because my only real idea had already been posted: numbers. Any guy you point to on the street has played pool (with few exceptions). He probably thinks he's pretty good, too. That girl over there? Yeah, she went to the pool room with her boyfriend once, but bowling is way more fun!! If there were as many female players as male players, and if they played as often as men, the top tiers would probably be significantly closer.

But the very best men would still be better. People, even pool players, don't want to say that pool is a sport because even big fat nasties can be good at it. And they're not athletes. But pool takes athleticism. It's hard to pinpoint exactly where it comes into play, but you know it does. And men are better athletes. Many female players, even those at a competitive level, just don't look natural playing. Pool seems hard for them, while it seems to come naturally for most men.

Back to numbers...Somewhere out there is a girl who could grow up to be better than the best woman alive. But who knows if she'll ever pick up a pool cue?

On the other hand, that boy who's going to grow up to challenge and perhaps surpass Efren is somewhere playing pool right now.

 

[JoeyA]

Since I am being quoted, I would like to add one caveat! :grin-square:

The BEST -- and I mean the ABSOLUTE BEST -- female player of all times, IMHO, is/was Jean Balukas. For whatever reason, she had the skills set needed to beat any male pro player on the face of the Earth -- yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

There are some GREAT lady pros today who possess a whole lot of killer instinct, with magnificant breaks and shot-making capabilities, but, me personally, I do not think they can defeat male pros on a consistent basis.

That is not to say that the lady pros are not capable of beating a male pro. We see that all the time in mixed tournaments. When you're talking about tournament races, anything can happen. Each player must not make a mistake.

One reason for this may be that female pool players could switch their passions as they advance in life, i.e., families, children, jobs, et cetera. Women are usually the care-takers of families. It may be why we don't see as many lady pros stay in the pool racket as long as the male pros stay in the pool racket. :wink:

Pros, though, today in pool, are a rare breed. It is the leagues where pool shines the brightest. In fact, I think the majority of pool enthusiasts identify much more with the leagues than professional pool. I know at my local pool room, if I were to go in there on a league night, 95 percent of the league members have never heard of Efren Reyes, Earl Strickland, or Ralf Souquet.

I wonder if the league operators would pay a fee for professional pool player appearances? Even more so, I wonder if the league players would care whether they got a chance to talk to and see in person a genuine professional pool player?
JoeyA

 

[LAlouie]

But the very best men would still be better. People, even pool players, don't want to say that pool is a sport because even big fat nasties can be good at it. And they're not athletes. But pool takes athleticism. It's hard to pinpoint exactly where it comes into play, but you know it does. And men are better athletes. Many female players, even those at a competitive level, just don't look natural playing. Pool seems hard for them, while it seems to come naturally for most men.

Pool DOESN'T take athleticism, pool takes skill, and therein lies the whole reason for this thread. Ie, if this is not a mano a mano game then why, the OP asks, are women still inherently inferior.

 

[MyraCurfs]

Don't forget, men are born with a little cue and soon after birth they allready started practising on handeling it.. in about ten years from that the stroking started and a few years from that they expanded it with a small left and right english on it while stroking. Must i go on :wink:?? Don't get me started on the follow trough and stop shots :sorry::grin::grin: The experience level is much bigger.

And this beside the fact the left part of the brain with men is much more developed...you really do not need to be smart to play the sport on a medium level. As for women they need to be smart.. So..........

How about this???

 

[Lea A]

Pool DOESN'T take athleticism, pool takes skill, and therein lies the whole reason for this thread. Ie, if this is not a mano a mano game then why, the OP asks, are women still inherently inferior.

What kind of skill? To me, coordination is an athletic quality. This isn't chess, which of course involves a degree of movement. The physical movement and goals in pool are precise and whether or not one is physically capable of delivering is what defines one's skill level. True, what sets the women apart isn't something as obvious as the reason women can't hit a baseball as far or serve a tennis ball as fast, but it's there. I think it's possible for the top women to get to be as good as the top men, but I think it takes more effort and more time for them to get to that point than it takes for a man to get there.

 

[JAM]

I wonder if the league operators would pay a fee for professional pool player appearances? Even more so, I wonder if the league players would care whether they got a chance to talk to and see in person a genuine professional pool player?
JoeyA

We used to travel the local pool scene three and four times a week, attending various weekly pool tournaments. The leagues were sometimes there in full force. They seem more interested in having fun, recreating, and competing with themselves. Of course, that's what I like about pool the most, when I used to play. It was a whole lot more fun than this professional tournament trail.

If Earl Strickland of Efren Reyes made a cameo appearance, I'm not so sure they'd pay them any notice!

 

[JoeyA]

Why are women considered inherently inferior at pool?

I requoted your question to make it a bit more clear what I was referring to although I think I know what you are asking. As far as knowing the best answer, I'm not so sure but I'll throw in my $.02.

The real reason for that perceived perception imo, is that for the most part, that perception is derived mostly from men with natural male egos, lack of experience in playing pool against capable pool-playing women and/or occasion, misogynistic attitudes by a few maladjusted men.

It appears to me that with all of the men and women that play pool there are far more women percentage wise that play pool professionally. In my pool room there are no women who play & practice regularly like the men. There are a some women who play in the leagues and with boyfriends but none that play and practice regularly in our pool room or even at their home that I know of. Males generally seem to be more competitive and committed to dominance than most females. Competitiveness seems to be more common in males than females but those females who choose to be competitive or are who are naturally inclined to be competitive can and will give men a run for their money.

Women are becoming increasingly competitive at pool and the record speaks for itself. The future holds much more of the same so for those who consider women inferior at pool so get ready for some attitude adjustments. :slap::thud:

The natural male ego for the most part, often prevents them from seeing the complete female as a possible equal and in some cases with superior capabilities in specific areas.

As far as women not having the same stamina as men, I think that is bunch of malarkey and the history books are full of women with phenomenal amounts of stamina.


JoeyA

 

[Lea A]

I know at my local pool room, if I were to go in there on a league night, 95 percent of the league members have never heard of Efren Reyes, Earl Strickland, or Ralf Souquet.

At the Jacoby event the other day, my husband was talking to some guy about the top pros, and he pointed over at Earl and said, "He's one of the greatest in the world and he can go into a grocery store and no one would know who he is." The guy said, "A grocery store? He could go stand outside in the parking lot and no one would recognize him!"

 

[JAM]

At the Jacoby event the other day, my husband was talking to some guy about the top pros, and he pointed over at Earl and said, "He's one of the greatest in the world and he can go into a grocery store and no one would know who he is." The guy said, "A grocery store? He could go stand outside in the parking lot and no one would recognize him!"

If we were to go to Philippines and Efren Reyes, Ronnie Alcano, Francisco Bustamante, Alex Pagulayan or any of ther other Filipino pool greats were standing anywhere, they would be mobbed with fans.

 

[GMAC]

I practice and play with several woman pros

My thoughts on it is this. When I play a woman pro and they get a shot to get out - they get. When I play a male pro the same thing happens.

The big difference is when I play a woman pro I get a ton more opportunites at the table. The male pro keeps control of the table so much better. Their safety and kicking game is far superior to the woman.

The woman need to, and they will over time, improve their safety and kicking games so they have more opportunities at the table. The great woman run out just like men. The problem is when they play each other - the man usually keeps the woman in the chair longer than the woman keeps the man in the chair, and nobody can win from the chair.

Jasmin and Yu Ram are the start of a new breed of woman players who actually have a great safety and kicking game, however it is still not on Par with the great men players.

I see no reason why woman can't compete with men at this game it will just take time to happen.

 

[mikeyfrost]

I used to think, well physically women just cant do what men can...then I found out how hard XT and Ga Young break. Maybe the gals have weaker strokes and cant get to tough shots, then I seen Monica Webb drawing and following 3 or 4 rail position the same as Earl would. Jasmin Ouschan does ok in some men's events right?

Facts is we used to tell women they weren't smart enough, does anyone believe that anymore? NOOOO. We used to tell them they didn't have the business acumen that men have, now DuPont and Pepsi have female CEOs. I think it's good so many folks think women are inferior at pool, I really do. Why? Because everytime we tell women they can't do something or limit them, they go and prove us wrong.

 

[jay helfert]

My thoughts on it is this. When I play a woman pro and they get a shot to get out - they get. When I play a male pro the same thing happens.

The big difference is when I play a woman pro I get a ton more opportunites at the table. The male pro keeps control of the table so much better. Their safety and kicking game is far superior to the woman.

The woman need to, and they will over time, improve their safety and kicking games so they have more opportunities at the table. The great woman run out just like men. The problem is when they play each other - the man usually keeps the woman in the chair longer than the woman keeps the man in the chair, and nobody can win from the chair.

Jasmin and Yu Ram are the start of a new breed of woman players who actually have a great safety and kicking game, however it is still not on Par with the great men players.

I see no reason why woman can't compete with men at this game it will just take time to happen.

So here's the reality. Even among the men, some are better. Yes, the great ones are better than the others. Does that make the lesser men players inherently inferior? I think not. There are very few men who have the pool skills of Ralf Souquet and Dennis Orcollo. Maybe five or six players can hang with them, that's all. Sure there are a few dozen players who might occasionally beat Ralf or Dennis in a match, but not very often.

Now let's take this second group of several dozen players and see how the top women shape up with them. Probably just as good as they shape up against the Dennis' and Ralf's they have to play. So in my opinion the top women players have arrived. They already are quite competitive with the men, and can win matches against any of them. Only when I see a top women player compete against the very best men (like Dennis or Ralf) do I see a marked difference in ability. And that gap may be shrinking as well as they compete against them more.

In my mind this is the future of professional pool, men and women on the same playing field competing on equal terms. That will make this sport more interesting to a wider audience. I like that Dragon and others are beginning to realize this.

 

[JAM]

So here's the reality....

Thanks for sharing your insights!

Hey, how come you're not en route to Philippines? I talked to Mark Haddad last night, and he and Melissa Little are leaving today, which is Mark's birthday, BTW. :grin-square:

Jay, can you look at the Pool Room Pictures from Around the World thread? There is a picture of a pool room in Sacramento. I say it's Tony Chohan in the picture, and Blah Blah says it's Amar Kang.

We need another California eyeball to check it out and state who it is.:wink:

 

[JAM]

We need another California eyeball to check it out and state who it is.:wink:

Here is the thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=142077&page=11

Here's the picture below. Check out the player on the left with the black and white T-shirt holding the pool cue in his right hand. Is that Tony or Amar?

 

[MyraCurfs]

As I said a few years ago... These are my actual thoughts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12-22-2006, 10:24 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uhmmm 1 question. As the level looks a little bit like mine on a good day... i
was very capable of watching the whole match. What a slow cloth by the way! How did the score go from 6-2 to 7-1!

I saw somebody mentioning that JB beated 3 men in a row in a mens tournament. No way i'm intending to put down her game here ( because credit to people how are suppose to get it)., but in the last year i saw 3 women do exactly the same and even 4 matches in a row at the Eurotour for men. It were no smalls names going down.... Brian Beekers ( 5th on the last eurotour)... Daryl Peach ( no introduction necessary).. Bruno Muratori ( always last 32 in eurotour)...


If there would be 1 reason to come over to the states it's to see the women like Allison, Gerda and Karen play over there...unfortunatly they do not play over here anymore..

And in defends of all good women players! I would love to see Mei Lin, Karen, Allison, Jasmin, and Gay young Kim, take on any men team you have to offer....... As a matter of fact: Bring on any men team against: Line, Jasmin, Gerda, Allison and Karen...

This will be the format:
Morning session:

Scottisch double: Jasmin and Line
Straight: Jasmin
8-ball: Line
8-ball: Gerda
9-ball: Allison
9-ball: Karen

Afternoon session

Scottisch double: Gerda and Allison
Straight: Jasmin
8-ball: Allison
8-ball: Karen
9-ball: Line
9-ball: Gerda

Bring it on: And i will i love to back the women.. I'll put a thousand dollars on it! If some of you do the same we may have an actual game on our hands! There's only 1 condition... it has to be played in europe ( i hate flying)......

 

[akaTrigger]

still surprised none of the female azb'ers have chimed in (except for aka trigger) on this misogynistic thread

or they are laughing at us b/c they know they can give us the 5 out playing one handed...

brian

My opinion is far from most women, so I try to stay out of these threads. But I will go ahead and bite the bullet.

I don't think women are inferior, but I do think men play better than women for the most part.

I think there are some women with amazing talent and motor skills to compete with the men today, but overall, men are better.

I think it goes back to flight or flight. I think it goes back to men play sports their whole life and have the testosterone for competing and the mental attitude for it. Although both men and women have to learn mental toughness, men acquire it faster (or are born with it?).

Take in point that when men play their best friends, they still want to crush them. "Most" women let their emotions get in the way and we hug and cry after wards (lol, being a little funny here). Now, with more experience and competition, females will want to crush our friends every time. But men in the very beginning of learning to play pool already have that killer instinct. It takes a while for a women to acquire that skill. Do I know why? No. Just reminds me of back in the day of fight or flight and men were hunters.

Here's a funny example I thought of yesterday. How many men do you know that have dropped out of school/college because they played too much pool? I know dozens. Yet, I don't know one female that did that.

Okay, let the $hit fly at me.... :duck:

 

[MyraCurfs]

My opinion is far from most women, so I try to stay out of these threads. But I will go ahead and bite the bullet.

I don't think women are inferior, but I do think men play better than women for the most part.

I think there are some women with amazing talent and motor skills to compete with the men today, but overall, men are better.

I think it goes back to flight or flight. I think it goes back to men play sports their whole life and have the testosterone for competing and the mental attitude for it. Although both men and women have to learn mental toughness, men acquire it faster (or are born with it?).

Take in point that when men play their best friends, they still want to crush them. "Most" women let their emotions get in the way and we hug and cry after wards (lol, being a little funny here). Now, with more experience and competition, females will want to crush our friends every time. But men in the very beginning of learning to play pool already have that killer instinct. It takes a while for a women to acquire that skill. Do I know why? No. Just reminds me of back in the day of fight or flight and men were hunters.

Here's a funny example I thought of yesterday. How many men do you know that have dropped out of school/college because they played too much pool? I know dozens. Yet, I don't know one female that did that.

Okay, let the $hit fly at me.... :duck:

maybe that's because they are smarter.. It is a stupid thing to drop shool for pool!!

 

[frankwhite]

Thanks for sharing your insights!

Hey, how come you're not en route to Philippines? I talked to Mark Haddad last night, and he and Melissa Little are leaving today, which is Mark's birthday, BTW. :grin-square:

Jay, can you look at the Pool Room Pictures from Around the World thread? There is a picture of a pool room in Sacramento. I say it's Tony Chohan in the picture, and Blah Blah says it's Amar Kang.

We need another California eyeball to check it out and state who it is.:wink:

Jenny, that's Amar.....

 

[tigerseye]

In this thread

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=142623

Jam writes:

"The women, as hard as they try, as much as they train, as often as they compete with or without the men, I just don't ever see them possessing the same capabilities as the men players."

The mechanics of the stroke have nothing to do with physical size or power, so I am mystified by the position of many here who do not believe that women could compete with men.

Billiards, in many forms, has historically been a male amusement. Hence far more men than women have been exposed to it. And since tournaments have usually been segregated, women compete against a much smaller group of women.

Much has been written here that the way to improvement is competing against better players. Is this tip gender restrictive?

You are totally right! Lets stop this gender barrier and have 1-tour...The Proffesional Open Tour....I mean these girls can play as well as the guys right?? I'm sure they would love to compete with the fellas plus the prizes would double in value!!
Great idea:thumbup:

 

[Black-Balled]

Here is the thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=142077&page=11

Here's the picture below. Check out the player on the left with the black and white T-shirt holding the pool cue in his right hand. Is that Tony or Amar?

Tough call...looks like Amar at first, but then again, the coloring and posture are wrong...plus it looks like there is an inner fatty coming out. I am inclined to think it is Tony...10-15 years ago.