Why the UPA is Stupid

I think we are being too harsh on Frank. You would be startled to if it was the first time someone from the media actually cared about your event(insert smily face here).
 
When we do our exhibitions and pool schools. I see video cameras and regular cameras all the time. I do make my rounds and tell either school students or spectators "I haveno problem with you taping for your personal use but I don't want to see it on Youtube and if I can give you my email can you send me sometoo that I can maybe use for promo stuff?" If they are with Inside English or BD or Inside Pool I ask if I can getthem a better seat and please email me the article.

Not one person has had a problem and niether have we. Its justgood PR as long as it isn't being profited from. Amazing story, How many people were actually there as a spectator when you were there?
 
Ironman317 said:
sounds like frankie is taking a page out of charlie williams' greed book. oh well, as soon as they put themselves out of business, TAR will still be the best thing going for pool today.
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No doubt. I have been saying for a while that TAR is the natural progression for pool these days, but the recent events by the UPA and DP pretty much clinches it. Apparently, common sense is in short supply these days...........
 
JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
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JCIN,

That's just priceless,buddy but, what did you expect from "Frank Avarez"?

I mean, this is the guy who as the President of UPA had sectioned the Desert Classic and when the players didn't get paid, he said it was not his or UPA's responsibility to ensure prize fund was there... If I recall my dull memories, wasn't it one of the reason the UPA was formed and all the players stuck together as a Union? That was top reason all the Pro players joined the UPA and followed it loyally? CW promised if they joined the UPA, showed force and unity, he would ensure money was in escrow for all UPA sectioned event. I guess, few years and a President later UPA forgot what their mission was...

Regardless, Mark Griffin stepped in and helped out the players to get paid, when it was not associated to him in any matter. Mark didn't have a single penny coming to him from working it all out, but he did it for the players and couldn't stand the black eye UPA has given this sport!

When it was all done and said, Frank NEVER thanked Mark Griffin for bailing him out.

Mark then approached Frank Avarez about collaborating UPA. Mark wanted to form a Pro Tour using UPA name because it was already familiar name. Well, would you believe Frank said he wanted $600,00.00 for the sale of name? LOL. He then later said he would take $300,000.00 WOW what a bargain, right ? For a damaged name?

Oh, about Frank mumbling "BCA, Mark Griffin ...", if it wasn't for Mark Griffin, he wouldn't had those Diamond Tables in there to put his UPA event on!!!




S.
 
sunnyday said:
JCIN,

That's just priceless,buddy but, what did you expect from "Frank Avarez"?

I mean, this is the guy who as the President of UPA had sectioned the Desert Classic and when the players didn't get paid, he said it was not his or UPA's responsibility to ensure prize fund was there... If I recall my dull memories, wasn't it one of the reason the UPA was formed and all the players stuck together as a Union? That was top reason all the Pro players joined the UPA and followed it loyally? CW promised if they joined the UPA, showed force and unity, he would ensure money was in escrow for all UPA sectioned event. I guess, few years and a President later UPA forgot what their mission was...

Regardless, Mark Griffin stepped in and helped out the players to get paid, when it was not associated to him in any matter. Mark didn't have a single penny coming to him from working it all out, but he did it for the players and couldn't stand the black eye UPA has given this sport!

When it was all done and said, Frank NEVER thanked Mark Griffin for bailing him out.

Mark then approached Frank Avarez about collaborating UPA. Mark wanted to form a Pro Tour using UPA name because it was already familiar name. Well, would you believe Frank said he wanted $600,00.00 for the sale of name? LOL. He then later said he would take $300,000.00 WOW what a bargain, right ? For a damaged name?

Oh, about Frank mumbling "BCA, Mark Griffin ...", if it wasn't for Mark Griffin, he wouldn't had those Diamond Tables in there to put his UPA event on!!!

S.
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Last year in Vegas there was a big players meeting with Mark Griffin/BCA and Frank Alvarez/UPA. Afterwards, a few of us went to eat. They said Alvarez stood up and said "the players this", "the players that", and that they don't remember being consulted about ANYTHING. Needless to say they were a bit pissed.
 
sunnyday said:
JCIN,

That's just priceless,buddy but, what did you expect from "Frank Avarez"?

I mean, this is the guy who as the President of UPA had sectioned the Desert Classic and when the players didn't get paid, he said it was not his or UPA's responsibility to ensure prize fund was there... If I recall my dull memories, wasn't it one of the reason the UPA was formed and all the players stuck together as a Union? That was top reason all the Pro players joined the UPA and followed it loyally? CW promised if they joined the UPA, showed force and unity, he would ensure money was in escrow for all UPA sectioned event. I guess, few years and a President later UPA forgot what their mission was...

Regardless, Mark Griffin stepped in and helped out the players to get paid, when it was not associated to him in any matter. Mark didn't have a single penny coming to him from working it all out, but he did it for the players and couldn't stand the black eye UPA has given this sport!

When it was all done and said, Frank NEVER thanked Mark Griffin for bailing him out.

Mark then approached Frank Avarez about collaborating UPA. Mark wanted to form a Pro Tour using UPA name because it was already familiar name. Well, would you believe Frank said he wanted $600,00.00 for the sale of name? LOL. He then later said he would take $300,000.00 WOW what a bargain, right ? For a damaged name?

Oh, about Frank mumbling "BCA, Mark Griffin ...", if it wasn't for Mark Griffin, he wouldn't had those Diamond Tables in there to put his UPA event on!!!




S.
Click to expand...

He never mentioned Mark's name that I remember but he did say something about the BCA and affiliation. I know Frank and Mark are world's apart on how they do things and I know for a fact Mark would never pull the crap Frank did.

I don't know if Mark remembers this but the first time I met him was at the 2007 BCAPL Nationals. I had taken some pictures at the USBTC that year and Ron in the BCAPL office asked if they could use some. I said no problem and never thought anything else of it.

I am standing by the action area with my camera stuff and Mark walks up and introduces himself and says "Thanks for letting us use those pictures from Reno." That made a real impression on me.

Comparing Frank to Mark is just a waste of time IMO. There is no comparison.
 
We have ran the online brackets for almost every UPA event since day one.

This year they decided they would do their own brackets, copied our brackets for their own use and said that they were doing it because they wanted to get their sponsors logos on the brackets.

We have added sponsor names and logos to brackets in the past when asked by the promoter. But I guess it is better for their sponsors to have their logos on a page on the UPA site that gets no visitors instead of on a page on the AzB site that actually gets looked at.

Mike


stormshadow1 said:
I feel you.I just don't see how they would shut down free publicity.How could he not have heard of TAR is strange if he is the prez and follows pool in any way.
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AzHousePro said:
We have ran the online brackets for almost every UPA event since day one.

This year they decided they would do their own brackets, copied our brackets for their own use and said that they were doing it because they wanted to get their sponsors logos on the brackets.

We have added sponsor names and logos to brackets in the past when asked by the promoter. But I guess it is better for their sponsors to have their logos on a page on the UPA site that gets no visitors instead of on a page on the AzB site that actually gets looked at.

Mike
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You mean they didn't ask, "What's AZBillards?"
 
AzHousePro said:
We have ran the online brackets for almost every UPA event since day one.

This year they decided they would do their own brackets, copied our brackets for their own use and said that they were doing it because they wanted to get their sponsors logos on the brackets.

We have added sponsor names and logos to brackets in the past when asked by the promoter. But I guess it is better for their sponsors to have their logos on a page on the UPA site that gets no visitors instead of on a page on the AzB site that actually gets looked at.

Mike
Click to expand...


Complete lack of business sense...

S.
 
AzHousePro said:
We have ran the online brackets for almost every UPA event since day one.

This year they decided they would do their own brackets, copied our brackets for their own use and said that they were doing it because they wanted to get their sponsors logos on the brackets.

We have added sponsor names and logos to brackets in the past when asked by the promoter. But I guess it is better for their sponsors to have their logos on a page on the UPA site that gets no visitors instead of on a page on the AzB site that actually gets looked at.

Mike
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I checked out the brackets just an hour ago and they have not been updated. No when I say updated I mean there is not one single player on the board at all. FYI
 
ok, I just checked and it is finally up there. as far as the brackets are concerned.
 
AzHousePro said:
We have ran the online brackets for almost every UPA event since day one.

This year they decided they would do their own brackets, copied our brackets for their own use and said that they were doing it because they wanted to get their sponsors logos on the brackets.

We have added sponsor names and logos to brackets in the past when asked by the promoter. But I guess it is better for their sponsors to have their logos on a page on the UPA site that gets no visitors instead of on a page on the AzB site that actually gets looked at.

Mike
Click to expand...
Mike, I sawat the begining of this thread that Frank is a Pro Player and I have alsoseenthat on the UPA website he has pictures of himself for sale along with people like Mad Max and Rodney and Ralf. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe Frank Alverez is a Arizona rated 8, just like me. Anyone wannabuyapic of me :) I will sign it and everything. However I will only pay you $2.00 to take it :) Just thought it was funny.
 
JCIN said:
I am a little pissed right now so let me preface this by saying this post is strictly my opinion and has nothing to do with TAR. That said, check this crap out.

I am all pumped up to go to the UPA event here in Vegas to hang out and watch some of my friends play, take photos and I was planning on texting some match updates. I get to the "arena" and ask the lady at the door how much. It is $10 for the 10am-4pm session $15 for the late session. $25 a day seems a little high but oh well. I ask how much for the whole event. She says $60, so I say "Ok, I will do that." Then she asks if I am an ACS member to which I reply honestly "No." She then informs me it will be $75 for the whole thing.

I'm sorry but $75 to watch a 31 man field with only 1 or 2 of the top ten players is just nuts. So I calm my inner nit and just pay $10 for the morning session figuring I will shoot some pics and see how the event goes.

I get into the "arena" and I am carrying my camera gear in a backpack. I set the back pack on a chair out of the way and start to put my kit together. A lady in a referee shirt comes up and says "Are you involved with this event?". I was a little weirded out by the question and wanted to respond "Not if you paid me." But I just asked her what she meant. She replies "Are you a player in the event?" I say "No." She then proceeds to tell me that you have to pay to be able to watch this tournament at which time I raise my right arm and put the little paper wristband right at her eye level.

She says she is sorry she didn't see the wristband and that not only is she the only referee for this professional event this session she has to watch the door too in order to make sure no one gets in without paying. I tell her "No worries." and go about my business.

I get my stuff put together and go sit down in the stands away from everyone else and take some photos of Josh Ulrich and John Morra playing their matches. John finishes his and comes over, sits down and we talk about the event. As we are doing this I am shooting pictures.

Frank Alverez enters the "Arena" and makes a bee line straight toward me. At this point I say to myself "Self, this is gonna get weird." I was right.

Frank: "I am Frank Alverez President of the UPA. Who are you shooting pictures for?"

Me: "Just for myself really."

Frank: "Who are you with? What media?"

Me: "The Action Report"

Frank: "The Action Report? Whats that?"

Me: "You have never heard of The Action Report? Really?"

Frank: "Well yes but I don't know who you are affiliated with"

Me: "Uhhhhh....what do you mean?"

Frank: At this point he mumbled something about BCA or...I am not sure probably because I was a little freaked out at this point with the interrogation.

Me: "There are people who want to know about this event and I was going to tell them about it. That's all."

Frank: "Well you can shoot pictures if you give us copies of them."

Me: "I am not going to do that."

Frank: "Why not?"

Me: "Because I do not do that. If you want me to stop shooting pictures of your event so I can tell people about it at no cost to you then that is just fine with me."

At this point I think it set in on him how terrible he was coming across because he mumbled some more and said "Well....let me get you a media pass...and...."

By this time I had time to think about totally absurd and stupid this whole thing was and I was pissed so I just broke my stuff down, set it beside me and said "Don't worry about it." Then he just walked away.

Keep in mind, we are at an event with 31 players and five of them are players anyone has heard of. I swear I was the only paying spectator because the only people were there with players. I am shooting pictures with a $4000 camera rig minding my own business and I get the third degree from the owner and president and basically shaken down for the ability to take photos.

I always try and see the other guys point of view but in this case I keep coming back to the same thing. If a promoter is this bloody stupid and short sited then screw him. Here we are at a so called professional event with a referee/bouncer and the biggest concern of the president is that god forbid someone may actually give a sh!t about his event. The same guy who sanctioned a tournament that aired the top finishers and then all he could do was shrug his shoulders. It pisses me off.

Never mind that the company I work for has put more money in players pockets over the last few years than his whole pseudo organization. I am probably still a little pissed so I may be being too hard on the guy but no matter which way you cut it is just dumb.
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Sounds like small people making them self feel self important, like toy cops or real ones for that matter....


Their loss JCIN not yours, your better than that.
 
Great story JCIN. I don't understand these pool organizations that do nothing for the players and how they continue to exist. First DP Promotions story from this morning and now the UPA here.


Next time you should just do the normal Wednesday thing in Vegas ------ head to the Rhino.
 
bfdlad said:
Mike, I sawat the begining of this thread that Frank is a Pro Player and I have alsoseenthat on the UPA website he has pictures of himself for sale along with people like Mad Max and Rodney and Ralf. Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe Frank Alverez is a Arizona rated 8, just like me. Anyone wannabuyapic of me :) I will sign it and everything. However I will only pay you $2.00 to take it :) Just thought it was funny.
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Umm, where you've been?:confused: You're not a Pro unless you pay $125 membership fee to UPA - United States Professional Pool Player's Association!

It doesn't matter what your skill level is - just pay their fee and you're a pro! :withstupid:

S.
 
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