Slow Players What are you thinking about?

[tom mcgonagle]

I rushed through my post yesterday and compared my time at the table to eating my favorite meal. I guess that wasn't the best answer to the question proposed.

What am I thinking about?

I'm not really thinking about any one thing in particular. I'm focusing on the task at hand and trying to run out and win the game.

I've developed a certain regiment on every shot I play. I do it because it works not because it takes more time to play this way.

Most of the time I'm competing, I'm playing high caliber pool players. Any error I make could result in my sitting down for long periods at a time. I don't like sitting down for long periods of time, just like the people that complain about people that play slow.

I gave up playing pool at the height of my playing years. I was nineteen years old and I couldn't run around the table fast enough to shoot my next shot. Several years later I returned to the game. I wasn't the same player, in the beginning. I played in tournaments and didn't do well in the beginning. I missed quite frequently. Then I started playing better. I started running out. People started to complain I was playing slow. It didn't matter when I missed every third shot.

It wasn't that I was playing slower. I had learned more about the game and developed my regiment for every shot.

There are also other factors that have slowed the game down. It takes to long to rack balls. Then the person your playing has to inspect the rack.

I also try to be courteous. I don't want to barge in next to a person ready to shoot and cause them to miss a shot.

People have mentioned age. I wish I could still run around the table. I can honestly say, I have never played slow intentionally. I just enjoy playing and I'm willing to take the time to try to make the right decision in the situation I'm facing. I can make enough excuses for losing. I'm facing killers out there. I have to be careful.

 

[whitewolf]

What makes a player stand up over a shot, take a minute or two to think about it and then get down and go through 20 or so warm up strokes and then get up again?

And repeat this over and over?

I would be embarrassed as a player to show my opponent that I can't make up my mind (if that is the reason for the delay)

This is my question. If it is a delay in the decision, why did you get down in the first place? and then what happened that made you get up?

Please, the slow players that know this answer, send me a PM so I can understand. PLEASE.

I think that if go back in time and remembered all the players who played incredibly slow, you will find that they are slow and stupid. And the sooner you reconcile this the better off you will be. I mean, what else could the answer be?

 

[Tom In Cincy]

'Stupid'? I would never call a 'slow' player STUPID. That is just plain ridiculous.
Why would I have to reconcile to be better off?

Tom<--- scratching head at whitewolf's inference of slow = stupid

I think that if go back in time and remembered all the players who played incredibly slow, you will find that they are slow and stupid. And the sooner you reconcile this the better off you will be. I mean, what else could the answer be?

 

[paksat]

{* Let's see now, all I have to do is play the 2ball in the corner and follow the ba,, HEY, she's a really hot pool chick. I love her cleavage and,,,ahem. So anyway, I follow the ball down to the rail way over there. But, how can,,uh oh, whoee, here she comes back this way again. I hope she notices me. Anyway, so how do I hit the white colored ball so that it bounces over to,,,to,,,what comes after the 2ball? Oh yeah, the 3 ball. Where's the 3ball. So then,,,MAN I'M THIRSTY! I need a drink and this damned shot is too confusing. Maybe that hot pool chick would like a drink too. Lemme get the waitress.} "OH WAITRESS, I'D LIKE A SCOTCH ON THE ROCKS AND GET A DRINK FOR THAT YOUNG LADY AS WELL...TELL HER IT'S ON MOI." {yeah that should do the trick. So now, where's the 3ball again. Perfect. I, 2, 3. Just like I saw Jeanette play it on tv. Okay, let me get down on the shot, get comfortable, take a few swings, line up the cue and point it at the white ball and the yellow ball,er,,,or is it yellow ball first, and THEN the white ball. CR@P! Man, the air conditioning sucks here. I'm all sweaty. Where's that drink?} "OH MISS, IS MY DRINK READY YET?" {Hey where's that hot pool chick?....... ....... ....... .......Rats, there she is, I think with her boy friend! Lucky F**k! Man, he's nuthin' special. What's she see in him? Okay, now lemme get back to business. Get down on my shot like this, aaaiiiiiiim, and,oh wait, I forgot to chalk the tip. Now I gotta start all over again. Should I chalk in a circular motion or tap at it or make sqeaky noises? Okay now I gotta blow the excess chalk off. HEY WAIT...what happened to my dime shaped tip? It looks kike a nickel shape now. How embarrassing. All the cool players have a dimey shape. I should get one of those dimey shaper tools. OOO man, here comes another hot pool chick. Man, this is an awesome pool room. Okay, back to the shot.} "HUH? OH THANKS WAITRESS. MAN I'M THIRSTY. YOU CAME JUST IN TIME."{Ya know, she's kinda cute too} "'SCUSE ME? WHAT? OH I'M SORRY, I WON'T LEAVE THE DRINK ON THE FELT EVER AGAIN. THANKS FOR REMINDING ME" {B**ch!, Who does she think she is. I know how to play pool. Now,,,oh cr@p, I gotta go to the restroom}.......... ....... ...... .......... ......... ......... ......... .......... .............. ......... ............ ..........."SORRY MAN. WHEN YOU GOTTA GO, YOU GOTTA GO."{Now I see the shot real good. I wonder if my problem is I have to use the restroom more??? So let me get down on this shot again, just like Jeanette...ooops te-he-he , I mean like Earl Strickland. He's so cool and macho, except that he's got a gut now, but he shoots awesome. So okay again, I'm all lined up} "I CALL THE YELLOW 1 BALL IN THAT CORNER POCKET OVER THERE. UH WHAT? I DON'T HAVE TO CALL THE SHOT IN 9 BALL? I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. SORRRRRY. {My opponent looks peeved. I wonder why. Anyway, so there's the 1 and then the 2 and the 3, and,,,,CR@P THAT'S NOT THE 3, IT'S THE 7}

wow.. they're alot more advanced than i thought they were..

 

[Cutthroat]

I think this argument was answered long ago:

Fast Eddie: I'm shooting pool, Fats. When I miss, you can shoot.

 

[measureman]

Indecision or fear of missing.Thats what takes so long.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

I take it you are saying you play a deliberate game. Or are you saying you take at least 60 seconds per shot, no less?

I suspect you just play the deliberate game and you pull the trigger quicker than 60 seconds.

People have mentioned age. I wish I could still run around the table. I can honestly say, I have never played slow intentionally. I just enjoy playing and I'm willing to take the time to try to make the right decision in the situation I'm facing. I can make enough excuses for losing. I'm facing killers out there. I have to be careful.

 

[Johnnyt]

I don't know what their thinking but they use to drive me crazy playing them. Now I'm slow as $hit between shots and probably a little better position player for it. I just wish all the old farts that drove me up a wall were still around so I could do the same to them now. Old and wiser...wish I could make long shots. Johnnyt

 

[mullyman]

Having grown up idolizing Earl the Pearl in the 80's I too have adopted the fast pace to my game. I'm not Lou Butera or anything but I have a decent pace that doesn't slow things down.

With that said, I used to get so pissed off when I'd get up against someone that took their good old time on each shot. After losing several of these matches I realized that it wasn't their slow play that was making me lose it was my inability to keep focused on the job at hand. I was letting their slow play get under my skin and it sharked me out of my game.

I taught/trained myself to ignore slow play. I find that the majority of the slow players are low level and are using that time to figure out what to do. Not to say that there aren't any upper level players that play slow. Anyway, if the lower level player needs time to work things out in his head then God bless him, give him the time. I find one of the biggest faults among pool players is their lack of respect for the people around them......especially lack of respect towards the lower level players. Give 'em a break already.
MULLY

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

... I find one of the biggest faults among pool players is their lack of respect for the people around them......especially lack of respect towards the lower level players. Give 'em a break already.
MULLY

Fair enough, Mully. But the respect thing cuts both ways. A player who is unnecessarily slow whether because he is a beginner or not, is just as disrespectful.

Unnecessary includes being slow on every single shot, or mulling over forever the simplest situations.

As a corollary to the original thread question, I was at the recent Predator 10 Ball event in Vegas and I saw several slow players in certain matches among the pros. I had to admire the patience of the guy sitting in the chair while all this unneeded walking around the table, looking at a shot from 20 different angles, getting up from the shot 2 and 3 times, just to finally watch the guy hit the shot that was obvious to begin with - a stop shot!

The question came to me, what is the guy in the chair thinking? The pros were admirably patient in dealing with this slow play and I envied their ability to just sit there and wait their turn.

 

[mamono]

Another game I was associated with for a long time was GOLF. On the good public course and some of the private clubs, there is a Club Marshall that makes sure the course isn't backed up because of "Slow Players". When golfers are aware they are holding up the groups behind them, usually the experienced and courteous players will let the other groups 'play through'

In Pool there isn't a rule that you can 'play through' when there is a slow group ahead of you. You HAVE to wait. Slow Play impacts tournament play and a shot clock (IMO) isn't the best way to handle the situation. To me, a shot clock just means that the slow player misses more often while at the table. Shot clocks are an outside influence on BOTH players. To me, this isn't fair. But something has to be done about these slow players.

In one of the leagues that I am in, they set aside 5 tables for matches and 3 tables for practice. When league is running a little behind or some players need to leave earlier, they start to double up on 1 or 2 of the practice tables. It helps keep the league within the appointed time frame of 5PM-10PM.

 

[JLD]

Slow players are simply busy dreaming the impossible dream...... they just don't realize that dream time doesn't equate to real time....... where would we be without dreamers?

 

[ShootingArts]

thinking about kicking my butt and enjoying every minute of it!

There used to be a place way out in the sticks where there was gambling 24/7 usually with multiple people challenging the table. One of the gamblers was older than dirt and he played s-l-o-w-! He also played mighty fine. I don't know what he was thinking but I suspect it was along the lines of "I am three or four times older than all of these young pups and I am taking home the cheese!"

Joe owned me for months. I'd sit in the chair chomping at the bit and when I finally got a shot at the table I'd start banging balls in and either not plan my run out fully or get out of line. I beat most of the other players but I was Joe's ATM before they had such things. I finally realized the problem wasn't Joe being slow, it was me getting out of my game. Playing Joe taught me to cool my jets while I was sitting in the chair. Patience in the chair made me hundreds of times what Joe had taken from me. Cheapest lessons I ever took. Once I learned to shift gears while sitting in the chair I was the one that owned Joe. It was kinda a shame. I liked and respected him.

Hu

 

[mullyman]

Fair enough, Mully. But the respect thing cuts both ways. A player who is unnecessarily slow whether because he is a beginner or not, is just as disrespectful.

That's cool, I can give you that one. I have to apologize for being so straight on that. I live in Japan and sharking really isn't something you see much of here. The players tend to be more respectful of the other people around them. For example, I have never seen anyone slop a ball in and not sincerely apologize to his opponent for it. That kind of unsportsmanlike conduct rarely happens in this country. The people are very well mannered. The only time you don't apologize for slopping a ball in is when you're kicking at something. I was told a long time ago not to apologize too much for getting a lucky kick because at the amateur level slop happens when you go cushion first. Every time I'm in the States playing pool and something happens and I apologize people look at me like I just stepped off of a UFO or something. I've been playing here almost 20 years though so it's part of my game.

Unnecessary includes being slow on every single shot, or mulling over forever the simplest situations.

I can imagine the type you're talking about. You are 100% correct that it is very disrespectful to do that garbage on purpose.

As a corollary to the original thread question, I was at the recent Predator 10 Ball event in Vegas and I saw several slow players in certain matches among the pros. I had to admire the patience of the guy sitting in the chair while all this unneeded walking around the table, looking at a shot from 20 different angles, getting up from the shot 2 and 3 times, just to finally watch the guy hit the shot that was obvious to begin with - a stop shot!

The question came to me, what is the guy in the chair thinking? The pros were admirably patient in dealing with this slow play and I envied their ability to just sit there and wait their turn.

Well, I think that's one part of being a pro, you've seen so much that things like that don't faze you too much. And I think to become a professional, at anything really, you have to raise yourself above the things that can take you out of your game.

Earl Strickland is a great example. God knows he's my all time favorite pro player, but I gotta say that he probably could have accomplished so much more if it wasn't for that temper of his. I've heard over and over how Efren made the super comeback in the Hong Kong match to overcome Earl. Sorry, I don't see it like that. I've watched every single minute of those 120 games more than once and it's painfully obvious that on that third day Earl was irritated and not playing focused like he was on day 2. Had Earl been able to control that temper of his and stay in the game Efren wouldn't have even broken 100 games. But that's just my opinion.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

There used to be a place way out in the sticks where there was gambling 24/7 usually with multiple people challenging the table. One of the gamblers was older than dirt and he played s-l-o-w-! He also played mighty fine. I don't know what he was thinking but I suspect it was along the lines of "I am three or four times older than all of these young pups and I am taking home the cheese!"

Joe owned me for months. I'd sit in the chair chomping at the bit and when I finally got a shot at the table I'd start banging balls in and either not plan my run out fully or get out of line. I beat most of the other players but I was Joe's ATM before they had such things. I finally realized the problem wasn't Joe being slow, it was me getting out of my game. Playing Joe taught me to cool my jets while I was sitting in the chair. Patience in the chair made me hundreds of times what Joe had taken from me. Cheapest lessons I ever took. Once I learned to shift gears while sitting in the chair I was the one that owned Joe. It was kinda a shame. I liked and respected him.

Hu

Good story, man, and exactly the type of thing I was talking about.
MULLY

 

[mullyman]

Fair enough, Mully. But the respect thing cuts both ways. A player who is unnecessarily slow whether because he is a beginner or not, can be just as disrespectful.

I just wanted to add one thing here, I do agree with you, as I said in my previous post, but I can see another side to the slow play.

When I'm playing a lower level player, whether it's shooting around the table or in a tournament situation, and they are playing *reeeeaaaalllllly* slow, I'll walk up to them and ask them what they're thinking and then give them advice. I've found more often than not that the image they have in their head isn't anywhere near what it should be and I have to wonder if somewhere in there they're seeing something but instinctively knowing that it won't work out that way but are trying to convince themselves that they can pull it off. I don't care to give advice during a tournament. If it's a lower level player, and the score isn't in such a position that it's going to cost me the match, I don't mind helping them.
MULLY

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I agree that professionals have to adapt and roll with the punches. And it has to be even harder for a pro since the slow player taking forever on each shot may just throw a package together and freeze the other guy in his chair for 45 minutes! I just envy their ability to do that. I find it tough to tolerate sometimes even when playing one of the bangers in my hall when it seems to go on and on and on and the guy isn't even going to run more than 5 or 6 balls. :banghead::lol:

But one thing this thread has taught me is that ultimately the only thing I can control is my attitude and therefore it does need an adjustment.

 

[Johnnyt]

Most of the real slow players that I knew(not pros) were cheap with a buck. I do believe that they know that they are getting more than half the table time they are paying for. Next time you see a slow player that you played or watched play someone take notice how fast he shoots when he's on his own dime practicing running racks. It won't even look like the same guy you played. I've told more than one that I was only paying a quarter of the time if they didn't speed it up. Of course I really wouldn't pull that at the end of the game, but if it doesn't speed them up some when I say it, it does shark the hell out of them. Johnnyt

 

[Pushout]

Don't have a clue and I used to play with a guy we called "Cobweb" because he would take so long every shot. He wasn't looking around the table like he was figuring out where the cue ball should go, he just stared at the shot!!

 

[crawfish]

Know how to beat a fast player? Play slow.

Know how to beat a slow player? Play slower than he does.

Think about it.