I know plenty of fast player that aren't too smart either. The other answer might be that you're too stupid to see that everyone is different and it has NOTHING to do with IQ.
Slow Players What are you thinking about?
- Thread starter Tom In Cincy
- Start date
I know plenty of fast player that aren't too smart either. The other answer might be that you're too stupid to see that everyone is different and it has NOTHING to do with IQ.
Agreed. Likewise, I have little respect for the people who naturally play at a very fast pace, and in all their years of pool playing have not developed the maturity to discuss pace of play *after the match*. It is exactly the same type of sharking when a fast player who never learned to develop any patience complains that their opponent is playing too slowly. The overt looking at your watch, humming the Jeopardy theme song, etc...these are also sharking tactics borne out of a lack of patience. Usually the people that succumb to this play rediculously fast, and consider anyone slow that doesn't play as fast as them. I take about 20 seconds on most shots. I take 20 seconds on the easy ones, and 20 seconds on the hard ones. Sometimes the opponent just can't bear to watch me carefully get into my stance and preshot routine on a straight in 6" long shot (even though it takes the same 20 seconds). If they can't bear it, then I guess that is the part of their game that needs work.
That being said, what really grinds on me is taking a long time *after* you have made a decision about what to do. Like 57 practice strokes, get up get down, get up again, 57 more practice strokes...wait, what did it look like again from this other angle, 57 more practice strokes, etc. That guy needs to learn to trust his skills and learn how to commit to a plan.
My $0.02,
KMRUNOUT
I'm gonna go with Danny Basavitch. Painful to watch.
^THIS^
One thing I noticed this year in Vegas was how long the average pro was taking with shot selection, aiming and setup, and taking the actual shot in the Grand Masters of the BCA compared to the time the average open player was taking to shoot.
It is comical when an amature is taking 1/5th the time and putting 1/5th the thought and effort into each shot compared to the pro and somehow feels a sense of pride over this fact, all the while having 1/10th the runout percentage of the pro players and missing easy shots or blowing their patterns because of their lack of control that results from the speed of their play.
Chris is a good case in point, I watched ALOT of his match with Rodney and Chris was taking far more time and making sure on each shot far more then Rodney was and it showed, Chris was not missing shots, he was not blowing shape because of careless play, and he got out pretty much every time he was supposed to. Rodney on the other hand shooting all fast and loose blew a few outs that he should have had and at the end of the day his lack of effort assured Chris was on the good side of the $40,000 swing.
When I started out, I had watched a lot of pool. My father is an excellent player and I had been to Derby City and Vegas a few times and seen a lot of top-flight play. When I came to the table, I could see what should be happening, but I didn't have the ability to execute those happenings.
So I would take a long time to figure out another option--a safe, or a way I could get around the table, etc. I was chided many a time by my father for being too slow in league play.
Anyway, as my game has progressed, my shooting-speed has improved quite a lot. For me, it's just a matter of knowing what to do and being able to do it.
So I would take a long time to figure out another option--a safe, or a way I could get around the table, etc. I was chided many a time by my father for being too slow in league play.
Anyway, as my game has progressed, my shooting-speed has improved quite a lot. For me, it's just a matter of knowing what to do and being able to do it.
Bingo!
I'm not a real slow player but I do take my time and make sure I know what I'm going to do. Sometimes it takes longer than other times. But I can't for the life of me figure out why people I beat regularly complain that I'm playing slow.When they do and if I at the table I just look at them and say these two things.
1. Damn you interrupted my thoughts now I have to start all over
2. You know maybe if you slowed down some you would win more often.
Tom, if I speak out of turn here, let me know and I'll edit my post....but this post is getting steered to death here....I got the impression you were sincerely trying to understand slow play and exactly what is going on in someone's head (you approached it much nicer than I would have)....instead, people have turned this into some version of slow people play better, or how you just got beat by a slow player, or how fast players miss so many shots, how apa 2's can take a while, or the time if takes to first analyze a table...
Tom is not talking about:
A couple of APA two's battling it out
A player trying to figure out an incredibly tough shot
Two players having a long game because of safeties in a tough rack
The extra time it takes at the beginning to figure out a tough rack
A new player learning to play
He is not talking about people that are deliberate in their decisions
He is referring to people, solid players, that take forever (45 seconds plus) to shoot what is a standard, reasonable shot.....those that play incredible slow in relation to the average player.....think about exactly how long 20 seconds is at the pool table, and then over double that....that is a damn long time....
The arguement that slower players are better players is complete bs......you are not better because you play slow, just like fast players are not better......better players are better because they lose less games, regardless of pace.....they get it done......good players come in all shapes and sizes, with all types of strokes, in all ranges of speed....
I'm the first to admit my faults, and I have no doubt I miss a shot or two in a race due to pulling the trigger to fast.....but I have seen good players agonize over an easy shot far too long, ultimately missing, so the perspective that if you take longer you won't miss is a bunch of crap....
Taking your time where appropriate and being deliberate is clearly understandable....playing painfully slow, holding up entire brackets, and just stalling is disrespectful and selfish....
Professional pool has a shot clock, basketball has a shot clock, football has a play clock, pro golfers can be put on the clock for slow play, even chess (a total thinkers game) has a clock.....the idea that you can take however long you like is exactly the type of problems that keep pool out of the limelight and drive viewers away....
Rant off
Tom, if you disagree, I'll edit and take your name off my post....I just get pissed when it seems you were being sincere and this post got taken in 200 different directions to defer a bunch of bs.....if I did that as well, my apologies....
Tom is not talking about:
A couple of APA two's battling it out
A player trying to figure out an incredibly tough shot
Two players having a long game because of safeties in a tough rack
The extra time it takes at the beginning to figure out a tough rack
A new player learning to play
He is not talking about people that are deliberate in their decisions
He is referring to people, solid players, that take forever (45 seconds plus) to shoot what is a standard, reasonable shot.....those that play incredible slow in relation to the average player.....think about exactly how long 20 seconds is at the pool table, and then over double that....that is a damn long time....
The arguement that slower players are better players is complete bs......you are not better because you play slow, just like fast players are not better......better players are better because they lose less games, regardless of pace.....they get it done......good players come in all shapes and sizes, with all types of strokes, in all ranges of speed....
I'm the first to admit my faults, and I have no doubt I miss a shot or two in a race due to pulling the trigger to fast.....but I have seen good players agonize over an easy shot far too long, ultimately missing, so the perspective that if you take longer you won't miss is a bunch of crap....
Taking your time where appropriate and being deliberate is clearly understandable....playing painfully slow, holding up entire brackets, and just stalling is disrespectful and selfish....
Professional pool has a shot clock, basketball has a shot clock, football has a play clock, pro golfers can be put on the clock for slow play, even chess (a total thinkers game) has a clock.....the idea that you can take however long you like is exactly the type of problems that keep pool out of the limelight and drive viewers away....
Rant off
Tom, if you disagree, I'll edit and take your name off my post....I just get pissed when it seems you were being sincere and this post got taken in 200 different directions to defer a bunch of bs.....if I did that as well, my apologies....
I saw the same things this year. I try to learn from the best - run 'n gun doesn't work in 8-ball and it doesn't work on Diamonds.
And what alot of us are talking about is not wanting to see pool devolve into crap like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgjXgDTNXR4
Watch the first 3 or 4 games of this match, both players having almost no time to even look at the shot before someone is saying "ten seconds" into their ear on practically every bloody shot. The second game gets into a safety battle and neither player has the time to actually plan the kick for which side they need to strike the object ball or the speed to kick in order to get a kick safety.
Both players get so rattled because the instant their opponent leaves the table they have 20 seconds to look at the shot, plan the shape, aim the shot, and shoot before some goof is saying "10 seconds" in their ear which ends up amounting to nothing more then an idiotic shark and destroys ALL of the skill and strategy from pool. Why don't they just flip a frigging coin and the winner goes on in the tournament, you and Tom can go watch the coin flipping contest and be amazed at the speed of each "match".
Idiotic threads like this lead to idiotic tournaments like the above where crap like this takes place, and it ruins the bloody game. You put a clock on the game like this and the epic safety battle between Earl and Efren where Efren made the miracle kick that goes down in history never freaking happens because they don't have enough "extensions" or the time to actually do what they needed to do at that point. And neither of those players play slow.
Too bad there isn't an "OFF TOPIC" or "that's not what I meant" option of the Original Poster to select. It would simplify a lot of responses. But, oh well, I did get a few good ones.
Thanks BP
Thanks BP
Welp, I guess that is what you get being too quick and brief in the original post and not writing the proper amount of detail into the original post required to explain your true intent in a clear and meaningful fashion. You ended up wasting a small amount of your time in a failed post instead of taking a greater amount of time to make sure of successfully explaining your thoughts and thus not have wasted any time at all.
Kind of ironic, it's akin to the way alot of people shoot pool.
No it wouldn't. The driving force behind stray threads has always been the misunderstanding of the topic. It'll never change. And after about the third or forth errant reply, posters no longer pay attention to the OP, rather, they begin to respond to that errant reply.
In other words, Tom, this thread is now officially hopeless
The OP stated
That shows a huge lack of understanding of the complexity this game can at times show and the time it takes to determine the best course of action.
Tom did not clarify "oh and I mean easy tic tac toe layouts", he stated the above in a broad all encompassing fashion and was flat out wrong in doing so, period. This thread and the way it went is 100% on him. He and you don't seem to get that. It's on him and you to actually realize that or instead decide to go on oblivious to reality.
At the end of the day this thread actually ticked me off because the tournament I linked above is absolute crap and people like Tom spouting off about things in a unclear fashion (and/or those who actually think pool is all about speed) is the reason we get idiocy like a 30 second shot clock that destroys the way the game is meant to be played unless a person happens upon a friggin road map.
No, next time make yourself bloody clear, we don't need any more crap like that womens event shot clock because Tom cannot explain himself clearly. That I AM actually pretty serious about and I am going to pipe up about it on a thread like this.
Wow, I didn't think you cared that much... Thanks for all the unsolicited criticism, I will take your comments seriously.
Your opinion is worth as much as anyones, and nothing more.
Your opinion is worth as much as anyones, and nothing more.
I took the OP's query as a rather insouciant remark.
Maybe they're wondering if 5 x 60 really comes to 120 seconds or how 300/6 can possibly equal 60 seconds a shot?
Good thread, interesting answers.
Setting aside sharking, some people can in general simply think quicker than others and some can in particular read layouts, see options and potential problems and evaluate the best choice quicker than others, especially in 8 ball.
PS.......I'm old and think 30 seconds is more than enough time for anyone, including when in a difficult 'hook'.
