SVB vs Frost Barbox with 5" Pockets
- Thread starter TWOFORPOOL
- Start date
thats kinda defeating the purpose, when you rack your own-your entitled to pattern rack. 7 of the 9 balls can be random(as you suggest) or put in a specific place to give a advantage to the guy racking for himself. Pattern racking is a skill itself. There are posters here on AZ that are among if not the best pattern rackers in the world. So when you play "Rack your own" thats the risk or reward you assume, when you play rack your own. If the 7 balls that have no designated place in the rack are racked randomly as you suggest-then its not "Rack your own", and would be hard to enforce.
i'm not picking on you, just explaining things. I dont know the rack very good at all, infact i'm very weak at it. So for me to play "Rack your own" would be the equivlant to giving up weight, especially if my opponent knows the rack. Pattern racking is a HUGE skill and I'm very weak in the knowlege of it. So I dont match up like that. If I knew the rack, I would awalys want to play that way to give myself the best chance of winning.
See what i mean???
If you want it to be neutral so the 7 OB's in the rack are random and no advantage is given to a player you need a refree to rack for both players, then you have a game where pattern racking is out the window and it should be the same for each player. However I have seen some Ref's for XXXXXXX do some funny things when racking for certain pro's in matches. Ya just never know....
I think it is unfair to say that pattern racking is a drawback to rack your own. Pattern racking is a drawback to letting either one of the two competitors rack. No matter which competitor racks, the breaker or the breaker's opponent, there will be incentive to pattern rack. The only way to avoid that is to either have a neutral party rack or to have the rack order determined by some other means, such as a "pre-randomized" list made up before the match.
From the WPA website:
16. Rack at Nine Ball
As stated in Rule 2.2, balls other than the one and nine are placed randomly in the rack and should not be set in any particular order during any rack. If the referee is not racking, and a player believes that his opponent is intentionally placing balls within the rack, he may bring this to the attention of a tournament official. If the tournament official determines that the player is intentionally positioning balls in the rack, the player will be given an official warning to refrain from doing so. Once warned, should the player continue with intentional positioning of balls in the rack, he shall be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct.
9.2 Ten Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangular shape, with the one ball at the apex of
the triangle and on the foot spot and the ten ball in the middle of the triangle. The other balls will be
placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)
Pattern racking is illegal, period. I don't know what is so hard about racking your own, and doing it legally. Racking your own just gives a player the opportunity to cheat. Whether he cheats or not is the question. It reflects the character of the player, imho. If I'm playing a guy who is obviously pattern racking I won't continue to play him. Not because I'm giving up weight, but because my opponent is a cheat. Sorry it if it sounds harsh but pattern racking is intentionally violating the rules. That's cheating where I come from.
16. Rack at Nine Ball
As stated in Rule 2.2, balls other than the one and nine are placed randomly in the rack and should not be set in any particular order during any rack. If the referee is not racking, and a player believes that his opponent is intentionally placing balls within the rack, he may bring this to the attention of a tournament official. If the tournament official determines that the player is intentionally positioning balls in the rack, the player will be given an official warning to refrain from doing so. Once warned, should the player continue with intentional positioning of balls in the rack, he shall be penalized for unsportsmanlike conduct.
9.2 Ten Ball Rack
The object balls are racked as tightly as possible in a triangular shape, with the one ball at the apex of
the triangle and on the foot spot and the ten ball in the middle of the triangle. The other balls will be
placed in the triangle without purposeful or intentional pattern. (See Regulation 4, Racking / Tapping of Balls.)
Pattern racking is illegal, period. I don't know what is so hard about racking your own, and doing it legally. Racking your own just gives a player the opportunity to cheat. Whether he cheats or not is the question. It reflects the character of the player, imho. If I'm playing a guy who is obviously pattern racking I won't continue to play him. Not because I'm giving up weight, but because my opponent is a cheat. Sorry it if it sounds harsh but pattern racking is intentionally violating the rules. That's cheating where I come from.
Thanks for you opinion Fatboy. I assumed when racking your own should still be ramdom UNLESS BOTH PLAYERS AGREE TO PATTERN RACKING BEFORE THE MATCH STARTS. I assume that both players agreed to pattern racking before hand since neither player complained about it.
I like to rack my own simply because I can rack the balls tight and I always rack the 7 balls ramdomly (however I pick them up). I get tired of racking tight racks for my opponent and when I break their rack I'm lucky to get two balls past the side. Its like giving up the breaks to your opponent! Racking you own also shuts everbody up about bad racks (including me:smile
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hiiiiii......SVB
First of all, Im very frustrated that I have to hear all of this posts. the most of all is The Pattern Racking, All of you think that im pattern racking is not the truth of this whole situation. The Only reason why I put the ball in certain order or Pattern Racking is because You have to figure out a way to make a ball on the break. Sometimes its due to different sizes of the balls can affect the rack where you cant make any ball. If you are goin to pattern rack its only good for soft break. I made the wing ball because i can see the way the balls are racking and Im very smart of how or where the ball is goin to move or go on the break. After I broke the balls, there was NO same PATTERNS every game. So, some of you dont know what you are talking about and this is why im frustrated. But the last thing I have to say is I wanted to play TEN BALL instead of the dumbest game of all (9 ball) before the match started. Otherwise this whole stupid conversation has already started. And Scott never wanted to play 10 ball because 9 ball is his favorite game and he knows he cant beat me at 10 ball.... But that dont matter. I enjoyed playing scott over the weekend whether I win or Loose. Hes a very tough competer and thats what I like. I like playing the best players. Thats the longest pool a played in a single 3 day event. I hope you fans enjoyed the match. Thank you for all your support....SVB:smile:
First of all, Im very frustrated that I have to hear all of this posts. the most of all is The Pattern Racking, All of you think that im pattern racking is not the truth of this whole situation. The Only reason why I put the ball in certain order or Pattern Racking is because You have to figure out a way to make a ball on the break. Sometimes its due to different sizes of the balls can affect the rack where you cant make any ball. If you are goin to pattern rack its only good for soft break. I made the wing ball because i can see the way the balls are racking and Im very smart of how or where the ball is goin to move or go on the break. After I broke the balls, there was NO same PATTERNS every game. So, some of you dont know what you are talking about and this is why im frustrated. But the last thing I have to say is I wanted to play TEN BALL instead of the dumbest game of all (9 ball) before the match started. Otherwise this whole stupid conversation has already started. And Scott never wanted to play 10 ball because 9 ball is his favorite game and he knows he cant beat me at 10 ball.... But that dont matter. I enjoyed playing scott over the weekend whether I win or Loose. Hes a very tough competer and thats what I like. I like playing the best players. Thats the longest pool a played in a single 3 day event. I hope you fans enjoyed the match. Thank you for all your support....SVB:smile:
Was very nice watching you play Shane. Though i didnt talk to you, i was around you alot this weekend. I was the big guy who was playing next to you alot, and trying to bet on Scott all weekend.
Shane - it was an absolute pleasure to watch both you and Scott play last weekend, and as I've stated elsewhere on the forum; well worth the 4 hour drive from Peoria IL. I also attended the DCC in Jan. of this year and spent a good deal of time watching your play there (the 10ball match against Efren was the highlight of my trip). You're known not only for your play but also for being a stand up guy who's all class!! No real need to answer the few critics on here. Best of luck to you in all you do, and I'll be rooting for you in person if I can make it, and if not, from afar!
Robb trustyrusty Bauer
PS. I would also like to thank you again for signing my case at the Derby. :thumbup:
No need to explain yourself here. You played great. Thanks for kicking ass!!!!!
BVal
Congrats Shane
First of I would like to congratulate Shane on his great match!!Your breaking was some of best I have ever seen.You and Scott treated all of us to some world class pool.Good luck Shane on your future matches and hope to meet you at this years Mosconi Cup.
First of I would like to congratulate Shane on his great match!!Your breaking was some of best I have ever seen.You and Scott treated all of us to some world class pool.Good luck Shane on your future matches and hope to meet you at this years Mosconi Cup.
I won money on you...good shooting...On the rack your own thing n ball pattern thing...It's a free country...If u not comfortable with the way u rack compared to your opponent then don't play..PERIOD....EACH PLAYER CONTROLS THEIR OWN DESTINY !!!! IF 1 guy broke better than the other..then so be it..If u thought u got out broke then work on your break & bet again when u think u figured it out....Don't cry after the fact...Learn from ur mistakes is all u can do....You shot like u was suppose to & Scott didn't...I know for a fact that ya'll both have played better...But you did what u did & got the money.:clapping:
Two monster on the bar box hope to see more of it. Would love to see MR. Archer in one of these matches!!!!!
First of all I heard by other members and people that were watching the event that you were putting the 8 Ball (one of the wing balls) in the same place evertime. I was only able to watch the last few hours of the match and I didn't even notice it. I also stated that I don't know if you were racking the other balls in the same order. I never stated that you were pattern racking.
You are clearly one of the best players in the world and your knowledge of the game/racks are as good as anybody. However when you put the 8 ball in the same spot (since it went it virtually all the time) you gained a big advantage (that you gained from knowledge of the game/rack).
A card mechanic can shuffle a deck and get what he wants to show up due to his intelligence and knowledge of the deck. I don't see any card mechanic's be able to play in Las Vegas. The good faith of the game of 9 ball it is required to ramdomly rack the balls.
If racking your own allows for putting the balls anyway you like then you certainly played within the rules of the game during this match. Fatboy stated earlier in this post that placing the balls anyway you want is an acceptable practice in racking your own AT YOUR LEVEL OF THE GAME.
I have always racked the ball ramdomly when I rack the balls and I think the general rules require that. Again putting the 8 ball in the same place everytime to make it on the break everytime is acceptable practice at your level (when racking your own) you certainly did nothing wrong.
You are a credit to the game of pool and I will enjoy watcing you in the years to come.
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It was great watching you play Shane.
Dont worry about the naysayers. People probably lost money on the match and wanna find someone to blame.
I play in a pool hall everyday that has balls that arent the same size. Some are 10 or 12 years older than others and you can tell. I know all about moving balls in order to get a tight rack. its just what you have to do.
Forget the rack. You won because you played better. You broke better (thats for sure) and you shots better. Thats why you won. Theres always gonna be haters, (especially on the Internet) you just gotta shrug em off and keep doing your own thing.
Man that hardly even sounds like the SVB that was at Big Dogs all weekend. Good shootin kiddo, keep matching up tough. I think breaking up with the girl has you back on your game...
Would you play Scott some more Box 9 ball with a neutral racker???
Thanks Shane for showing us some fantastic skills. I'll bet it seemed like a long weekend!
It seems to me that in rack your own, pattern racking, if it does occur, is just part of the skills of the player. I can't see anything wrong with it. If you're smart and skilled enough to be able to rack in a certain pattern, make certain balls on the break, and make a position shot on the one ball then more power to you! That's some powerfull skills!
It was really cool to watch you get the table figured out and get the rack to where you could string a few. Nice work.
It seems to me that in rack your own, pattern racking, if it does occur, is just part of the skills of the player. I can't see anything wrong with it. If you're smart and skilled enough to be able to rack in a certain pattern, make certain balls on the break, and make a position shot on the one ball then more power to you! That's some powerfull skills!
It was really cool to watch you get the table figured out and get the rack to where you could string a few. Nice work.