CTE ... the complete story

Neil said:
No, Dave, I don't know how it works. I don't use it. But, if it works for some people and makes them better, for whatever reason, I'm for it.
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Sounds good to me.

Neil said:
Maybe it does have flaws, I don't know. But, I DO know that aiming by feel sure has it flaws! So, it can't be any worse than that.
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Actually, if a system (CTE or any system) gives you the wrong line of aim for a wide range of shots, I think "aiming by feel" (AKA "seeing the angle" or "just aim and shoot" or "just visualize the ghost ball") could be much better than a limited system. (I am not condeming CTE as a "limited system," but from everything I know so far, it does seem limiting to me). Having said all of this, if a player does not aim well, a basic system might help them dramatically.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
... if a system (CTE or any system) gives you the wrong line of aim for a wide range of shots, I think "aiming by feel" (AKA "seeing the angle" or "just aim and shoot" or "just visualize the ghost ball") could be much better than a limited system.
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Unless the limited system is actually a way to help you aim by feel...

pj
chgo
 
I think part of the problem here is the science guys want pool to be like a machine with parts moving in linear mechanical paths that they can chart and graph... and there is nothing wrong with that approach..

however it will never provide a complete picture.. there are simply to many constantly changing minor and major variables. So many if fact that by the time you have listed them all some of them have changed..

CTE and some other systems are not based on mechanics.. they are based on the way certain human beings perceive 3D space.. they should more correctly be called a perception system rather than an aiming system.

perception is fluid and different for every single one of us

I DO NOT believe that these systems will work for everyone..

I DO however believe that those who they work well for perceive 3D space in a similar fashion to one another.

lets face it you have to get your cue on the right line to make the shot.. if the shot goes in then the shooter did that..

trying to rationalize the fluid living perceptions of the eyes and brain.. by using the physical laws that govern machinery and physics... that I believe is what has led to this impasse.

and I see no end to it anytime soon..

Have a nice day:thumbup:
 
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If you have put in alot of time with Stan and still do not understand I do not think I could help you. Besides your asking for info that is taught by an instructor for a living and I do not see you giving out the secret aiming lesson you recieved from GENE, nor would I ask you too. You and Pat don't get it we understand, its the fact you 2 call it something other than what it is and put it down that bothers us. IT WORKS, PERIOD.
dr_dave said:
I've put in a lot of effort and time over the years to try to better understand the intricacies of CTE. I've talked to and communicated with many of the system proponents (including Hal and Stan).

For the record, I have not personally tried to summarize, illustrate, or explain CTE. I have only quoted what several of the CTE proponents have offered. Again, I would love to post a better explanation. If you are others are willing to offer a better, more accurate description, I would be more than happy to include it on my site. Are you willing to take a stab at it? It sounds like you are a firm believer.

Regards,
Dave
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softshot said:
trying to rationalize the fluid living perceptions of the eyes and brain.. by using the physical laws that govern machinery and physics... that I believe is what has led to this impasse.
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It's complicated but I don't think it's outside the realm of science.
 
softshot said:
the science guys want pool to be like a machine
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This isn't true. "The science guys" want to understand things as they are, whether that's machine-like or something else. We keep asking for the mechanical details of CTE because its users claim it's a mechanical system. We don't care if it's mechanical, intuitive or black magic; we're just trying to understand what it really is.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This isn't true. "The science guys" want to understand things as they are, whether that's machine-like or something else. We keep asking for the mechanical details of CTE because its users claim it's a mechanical system. We don't care if it's mechanical, intuitive or black magic; we're just trying to understand what it really is.

pj
chgo
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but even if you get perfect details... and it doesn't work FOR YOU.. in no way means that it won't work for someone else..

you will never be able to see what others see..

think about it you could have the same vision .. same facial structure pupils exactly the same distance apart head exactly the same elevation from the cue AND STILL ... you would not see the table the same way they do.. because your brain and vision developed independently for you and only you.. your DNA your mother.. the foods your mother ate while pregnant ALL contribute to a persons visual perception and overall brain development..

and that simply cannot be banished away with charts and graphs..
 
The video is the best one I've seen so far as to explaining CTE. I believe it would be much better explained in person. I'm going to give it a try tonight and see if I understood the vid the way I think I did. I need all the help I can get so will never knock a freebee.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Who ever said otherwise? You're having a made-up argument with yourself.

pj
chgo
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you claim placebo effect..they are lying to themselves

I say it's perceptual differences.. they see the table differently than you do

they are NOT the same thing..
 
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PKM said:
It's complicated but I don't think it's outside the realm of science.
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on a molecular level??? yea they probably can tell you how any one chemical reaction can occur and the resulting changes from one chemical interaction..

but anyone who tells you they know exactly how the brain works... is a liar..
 
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I have just read all the posts in this thread and still haven't read or been shown anything to compliment the CTE system.

Here is a thought. Why doesn't someone that is thoroughly knowledgeable in the CTE system, post some shots using the Cue Table and show some of the variances and extremes that are confronting a player when using this system.

I think this is what Dr. Dave is looking for and I would like to understand it better in order to make my own determination.

Anybody out their knowledgeable to be able to do this?
 
PKM said:
I don't see any hostile posts from Dr. Dave, I think he is genuinely trying to get more information. This is a pool forum. Sometimes discussions go well, sometimes they don't.
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I didn't say Dr. Dave was being hostile.
 
klockdoc said:
I have just read all the posts in this thread and still haven't read or been shown anything to compliment the CTE system.

Here is a thought. Why doesn't someone that is thoroughly knowledgeable in the CTE system, post some shots using the Cue Table and show some of the variances and extremes that are confronting a player when using this system.

I think this is what Dr. Dave is looking for and I would like to understand it better in order to make my own determination.

Anybody out their knowledgeable to be able to do this?
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Several people have done this in the past. I believe it is possible to find them using the search function. I would give you the links but I don't have to the time to search them out. I believe that the user SpiderWeb or something like that has done two videos, one which explains CTE and the other where he posts a fairly difficult drill that he scores particularly high on presumably using the CTE method that he claims to use on all shots.
 
Tom In Cincy said:
These 'so called systems' can help some players improve. Granted.

And these 'so called systems' are not the 'end all' but, don't you agree that some of these systems can keep certain level players interested and see some improvement?

Sharing these 'systems' and discussing them in these forums does continue to further the process of a lot of players still trying to learn this game.

Not everyone will have talent like the Greenleafs-Mosconi's and Lassiters'.. but a whole lot of wanna-bees have a lot of heart and money to put into this game.

Maybe there just isn't that kind of passion in Denver for you to understand this, but I am sure there is some controversy.

Too bad you have to come here for 'passion and controversy' I thought this was a billiards forum... silly me.
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You said it best Tom.

Some "systems" DO help some players and it is just plain stupid to call the systems "stupid".

JoeyA
 
Patrick Johnson said:
This isn't true. "The science guys" want to understand things as they are, whether that's machine-like or something else. We keep asking for the mechanical details of CTE because its users claim it's a mechanical system. We don't care if it's mechanical, intuitive or black magic; we're just trying to understand what it really is.

pj
chgo
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I've heard CTE desribed as a "VISUAL" system.
JoeyA
 
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