The APA can kiss my.......

[Spimp13]

Really? This is a public site for people to talk about pool. If someone doesn't like the tables at the national event that is a valid subject to discuss here. I personally think it is weak to tell people not to play APA if they don't like the tables. Someone can dislike the tables and debate the subject and continue to play in a APA league and enjoy it. Its not like it has to be one way or the other....

It is a public forum, and you do have every right, as do I...and my opinion is to get over it...there are worse things going on now then to have people whine who win a free trip and hotel and sometimes spending money about playing conditions. It will never be perfect. Voice your opinion, but crying and titling it the APA can kiss my....shows most likely what happened with you losing your match causing your APA team to shun you lol.

 

[greyghost]

TAP TAP! Its a disservice and disrespectful to the game and especially the players involved.

 

[btoneill]

I also agree that APA could do much better. I strongly suggest people go look at the new USAPL (www.playusapool.com) or www.playbca.com.

There are options and the USAPL is way better than the APA. No player member dues, free protected territories, 50% payback on local level, GREAT (proven) handicap system, added money to local and state tournaments, and financial support to pro players.

I'll second that option. While I still enjoy playing APA there are issues with it that I think could be done better. I followed Mark's advice on looking at USAPL and I was very impressed. Impressed enough that I'm working with CSI and USAPL trying to get at least one USAPL division started in the Charlotte, NC area ASAP. The handicap system it uses is great, I have first hand knowledge of it from a league I played in years ago that it is based on. IMHO the league handicap system is much fairer to middle to high ranks than other systems currently used.

Brian

 

[TheNewSharkster]

It is a public forum, and you do have every right, as do I...and my opinion is to get over it...there are worse things going on now then to have people whine who win a free trip and hotel and sometimes spending money about playing conditions. It will never be perfect, voice your opinion, but crying and titling it the APA can kiss my....shows most likely what happened with you losing your match causing your APA team to shun you lol.

Why are you even in this thread? You have stated your feelings twice and really has no contribution to what everyone is talking about. If that is your feelings why waste peoples time who want to discuss this?

 

[pooltchr]

I was there from Wed to Wed and in all my years I have never, and i mean never see tables so bad. .

And that is my point. In all your years, it has always been a good experience. Here is one time when something went (very) wrong, I don't think that is a valid reason to condem the entire league.

Now, if they don't do anything about it, that would be another story.

Why let one bad experience over ride all the good years that you did have, and all the potential good years in the future?

Steve

 

[cbi1000]

Brian,
I think we need to cut the APA a little slack. I agree that a national event should strive for the best conditions, but consider the logistics for just a minute.
I'm sure they are on a very tight schedule to get in, get set up, and when it's over, get out. How many tables did they have? How many man hours did it take to get them loaded in and set up? Now, unless someone from the APA was overseeing the set-up, they may not have even been aware of a potential problem until the tables were already in place. How long would it have taken to call the installers, get them back in, and recover all those tables? Diid they even have that kind of time, or would that have caused delays that would have not allowed them to complete the event?

Granted, there was an issue, but as has been noted, this was the first time something like this happened.

IF the APA doesn't take steps to correct the problem for the next event, they would deserve some serious criticism. As for this one, I think there are probably a lot of things that nobody is taking into account as contributing factors.

We have all had things go very wrong and an inopportune time. If we learn from the experience and take corrective action, it's the best we can do. If we let it happen again, we deserve what we get. I think the important question is, "what will the APA do about it?". Let's give them a chance.

Steve

Sorry Steve, I hate to keep using your quotes, BUT,

Wrong again. I multimillion dollar company like the APA should have someone in place that would/should have make it CRYSTAL clear that the tables and balls should be in "like" new condition, anything else would be unacceptable, period!

But they didn't.

Poor planning = poor execution.

 

[Spimp13]

Why are you even in this thread? You have stated your feelings twice and really has no contribution to what everyone is talking about. If that is your feelings why waste peoples time who want to discuss this?

Because like you stated it is a "public site". Here maybe this will be more of a contribution for you.

1.Start a petition with names and signatures of people who dislike how the APA is ran in Vegas. Make sure to include a cover letter.
2. Send pictures of the tables showing problems with the felt etc.
3. Write a letter of ideas on things you want accomplished or changed using what you read here, or your own ideas.

Simple enough right?

That is my toned down version of get over it...

 

[pooltchr]

Now I can agree with you. The APA has run very successful events for years. For whatever reason, they made some changes to a successful formula, and didn't closely monitor things to make sure the changes were good. On that point, they came up short.

So they made a big mistake. Should they be crusified for it?

Steve

 

[Richardson]

Matt, its like you're saying its ok to accept something thats shitty.

If you had your car repainted and the paint had runs in it, would you just drive off and say to yourself "get over it" ? No you would ***** and expect something done right ?

There is NO SUCH THING as a free trip. Everyone including us since we were 16 and 18 years old has paid league and membership dues.

I love you man, but its like you're in love with the APA and will defend it til the death. Or maybe you're bored and just wanna post, im not sure.

 

[ddcuerepair]

I asked the same queation and was told that it was a conflict of interest and that's all they were going to say on the matter.
Talk about duck and run.

If that was the case they wouldn't be using Valley tables either, since VNEA has a HUGE association with Valley... And last I checked VNEA is a competitor to APA and IMHO more of a direct competitor to APA than the BCAPL is because BCAPL isn't handicapped.

It may be what the public line for the switch was, but I'm sure it had a lot more to do with than JUST being a direct competitor.

Also of note, APA was one of the groups that pushed BCA to sell off the BCAPL because they didn't want (and justifiably so) the trade organization they paid dues to, to be supporting a competitor to them.

I'm not blasting the APA for their decisions, as they are a for profit company, just don't agree with the statement that was told for the reason for the switch.

Every business needs to make decisions that are the best for their long term health, but every now and then they make ones that are actually bad for their long term health, which normally happens when ego's come into play. And we all know, there are NO ego's in the pool world


Brian

 

[Spimp13]

Matt, its like you're saying its ok to accept something thats shitty.

If you had your car repainted and the paint had runs in it, would you just drive off and say to yourself "get over it" ? No you would ***** and expect something done right ?

There is NO SUCH THING as a free trip. Everyone including us since we were 16 and 18 years old has paid league and membership dues.

I love you man, but its like you're in love with the APA and will defend it til the death. Or maybe you're bored and just wanna post, im not sure.

I have a feeling that some tables were like this, and others were fine just like state and many other venues. Nah, I am not in love with it, but when we pay $6.25 a week and get a free drink making it so that we really only pay about $3 a week and $21 a year is not really paying a ton of money. Steve mentioned that your opponent is playing the same table which hit it on the nail. Should they have spent more time making sure the tables were leveled and felted appropriately for this big event, absolutely. Is it the end of the world or did it really cost you a the match, I highly doubt it. I think people want to make excuses for their poor play and THAT is my point. It will never be perfect and can be improved and hopefully the right person sees this thread and makes the steps to do so.

 

[cbi1000]

Well let's look at that for a minute. The APA has 260,000 members. Each pays $30 per year for league dues. That comes to about $800,000 per year. Now we also know that a small part of the weekly dues goes to the APA, and the rest goes to the LO. Let's just say the APA gets $2 from each player every time they play. Average 10 matches per session, and 3 sessions per year, they just doubled their income to $1.6 million.

Please tell me where the other $398.4 million comes from.

Now, out of that revenue, they also have expenses. Just the cost of renting space for the national tournament, payroll for a rather large staff, office space, and all the usual expenses that come with operating any business, and I don't see how the APA is getting rich off players.

As a player, I pay my $30 a year, and $7 on the nights that I play. Even if I don't play a match, I usually get an hour or two of table time, and a little more if I play a match. So I pay the APA a total of $240 per year, and end up getting about 80 hours of table time. That comes out to $3 per hour. Table time in my area runs anywhere from $4 to $8 per hour.

How am I getting ripped off by the APA?

Steve

Steve

As i do agree that the 400m mark might be far off, but i also believe your numbers are way to low. Most all the teams where i play (550) play double J, 8 and 9 the same night. That really makes it twice the teams. In my area you can take your numbers x 2. As for paying for table time. Hmm, lets see, i can play on a bigger better table at my pool room instead of a bar table, play someone better so that i can get better, and not ever have to deal with a sand bagging team....

 

[Richardson]

I have a feeling that some tables were like this, and others were fine just like state and many other venues. Nah, I am not in love with it, but when we pay $6.25 a week and get a free drink making it so that we really only pay about $3 a week and $21 a year is not really paying a ton of money. Steve mentioned that your opponent is playing the same table which hit it on the nail. Should they have spent more time making sure the tables were leveled and felted appropriately for this big event, absolutely. Is it the end of the world or did it really cost you a the match, I highly doubt it. I think people want to make excuses for their poor play and THAT is my point. It will never be perfect and can be improved and hopefully the right person sees this thread and makes the steps to do so.

Matt, the APA does not give you the drink. Not everyone takes the drink.

Yes bad equipment can obviously cost you a match. If you have a 3 ball out and the table rolls of 2 inches and you end up hooked then did you really get beat ?

Anyhow im done on here. I should have never started on this post, we all know what argueing on the internet is like.

 

[cbi1000]

WAAH!!!!WAAAAHHH!!!!WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

How much did you pay for your plane ticket and your hotel stay? Ummm..... Let me guess..... Absolutely nothing! Am i right?
Basically your team won a trip to spend a week in Las Vegas with your friends. What's wrong with that?
Everything else should be icing on the cake.
So what the tables weren't top notch? Just like other people pointed out, your opponents are playing on the same tables you are.
I'm guessing that you played bad and were the reason you're team faired so poorly. I'm sure if you played great this thread would have been titled "i love the APA".

Last year I was fortunate enough to experience the APA Nationals & I had a blast. My teammates and myself had no expectations. Just went to have fun.
When I wasn't playing pool, I was in the poker room, or mingling with some very attractive young ladies. I went to Vegas with $400 in my pocket and when I stepped on the plane back to Florida, I had about $500 and a slew full of stories to tell my buddies. (he, he)

I get tired of hearing people bash the APA. It's not perfect. It has it's flaws, but surely you must have some fun playing or else you wouldn't show up every week with your weekly dues in hand ready to play. My advice to you would be to quit playing APA, and start your own league. I understand your just voicing your opinion; but then again opinions are like azzholes, everybodys got one.

So if you get your trip paid for it's ok to use crap tables? Really? That's your statement?

The OP didn't say he had a bad time, and he didn't say the tables caused his team to loose. He said the tables were crap, not only crap, but crap at the national event!

 

[Spimp13]

Matt, the APA does not give you the drink. Not everyone takes the drink.

Yes bad equipment can obviously cost you a match. If you have a 3 ball out and the table rolls of 2 inches and you end up hooked then did you really get beat ?

Anyhow im done on here. I should have never started on this post, we all know what argueing on the internet is like.

Agreed...last post in the thread and I am done as well. Regardless if someone does not take a drink it is $6.25 a week to hang out with friends and compete playing pool. You do not have to pay table time which is usually about $5 an hour or a dollar a game, and some places offer a free drink or pop. It is a cheap way to do something you enjoy, with the thought of playing your way to Vegas. It is not totally free of course because you buy your own food and entertainment, but they pay for the hotel, flight, entry fee, and usually some spending cash if available (maybe not for all). Before your match starts you have every right to roll the ball on the table to see how it rolls making it so there is no real mystery on the table. Sure you might get a bad roll and lose a game and it is dissapointing, but in a lot of cases (95%+ IMO) it is the shooters fault. I hope the APA improves and gets better equipment in Vegas as well as others in the thread. Maybe I will bring this up to Jeanette Lee tonight who is promoting APA :thumbup:.

 

[cbi1000]

And that is my point. In all your years, it has always been a good experience. Here is one time when something went (very) wrong, I don't think that is a valid reason to condem the entire league.

Now, if they don't do anything about it, that would be another story.

Why let one bad experience over ride all the good years that you did have, and all the potential good years in the future?

Steve

Steve, I have to point out the all to obvious, I never said anything about the past years.... did I? NOPE.

We are talking about this year. If the APA moves from Diamond, or any other table, even well set up and cared for valley table to junk tables (of any kind) then it IS our duty to complain about it. If you move backwards instead of forward then we all should let it be known not to do it again.

 

[gpeezy]

Anyone posting here that says "its the same table for both players" is missing the point. I'm not gonna try to explain that one anymore because its been said over and over by others in this thread. Here is a different angle. If you had a poolroom in your town that didn't give a care if you came in or not, just spend some money. Then there was a poolroom that did their best to provide a good service. Tried to keep a nice, clean, fun enviornment for you. You wouldn't be playing in one of them. I know which one.

 

[cbi1000]

Now I can agree with you. The APA has run very successful events for years. For whatever reason, they made some changes to a successful formula, and didn't closely monitor things to make sure the changes were good. On that point, they came up short.

So they made a big mistake. Should they be crusified for it?

Steve

yes yes yes. It's not like they changed up the food. They changed the biggest and most important thing, the tables.

 

[Cuephoric]

Normally I stand up for the APA, but in this case I can't. While not in Vegas I have seen the horrible job done in putting the fabric on the tables on APA's pictures on their website. While not all the tables shown in the pictures show this horrid job, there are quite a few that do.

Look at these two pictures:

and

Look at the cloth at the side pocket and the corner. That is NOT how you cover a table. That is what a hack does when trying to cover a table. If they took so little care those aspects I am inclined to believe they did a horrid job overall. This is also not the first I've heard of issues with a horrible job having been done on some of the tables.

Once again, it's some of the tables, not all.

Also he didn't say his team lost because of the tables. He said he was upset at going to a national tournament that bills itself as being top notch and seeing tables in that kind of condition. And, to me, it shocks me as well. In Charlotte our Cities Tournaments for APA are held 3 times a year and they bring in 80 Diamond SmartTables. Those tables an absolute joy to play on and are always in great condition because Diamond cares about how their products play. The national office can take a few pointers from the Charlotte Metro APA and learn to get some decent bar tables instead of badly set up Valleys... They could at the very least have decently setup Valleys...

Brian

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:

Thanks for the great laugh, I needed that...those pictures belong in the mech section under my hack pictures thread. Those were great!lmao
It's sad when especially at a big event, but not to exclude the small places, that they are more willing to sacrifice quality of service for quantity of money.
It's a sad state of affairs.....

 

[pooltchr]

yes yes yes. It's not like they changed up the food. They changed the biggest and most important thing, the tables.

OK, you win. They had bad tables. Let's shut down the entire league, string up everyone who has anything to do with the APA.

Do you want to notify all the room owners who host APA leagues and count on them for much of their revenue, or should I?

I'm just saying, bad things happen. When they are, there are two options, fix it or ignore it.
Let's see what they do before we decide to keel-haul 'em all.

Steve