The APA can kiss my.......

[mm4pool]

Normally I stand up for the APA, but in this case I can't. While not in Vegas I have seen the horrible job done in putting the fabric on the tables on APA's pictures on their website. While not all the tables shown in the pictures show this horrid job, there are quite a few that do.

Look at these two pictures:

and

Look at the cloth at the side pocket and the corner. That is NOT how you cover a table. That is what a hack does when trying to cover a table. If they took so little care those aspects I am inclined to believe they did a horrid job overall. This is also not the first I've heard of issues with a horrible job having been done on some of the tables.

Once again, it's some of the tables, not all.

Also he didn't say his team lost because of the tables. He said he was upset at going to a national tournament that bills itself as being top notch and seeing tables in that kind of condition. And, to me, it shocks me as well. In Charlotte our Cities Tournaments for APA are held 3 times a year and they bring in 80 Diamond SmartTables. Those tables an absolute joy to play on and are always in great condition because Diamond cares about how their products play. The national office can take a few pointers from the Charlotte Metro APA and learn to get some decent bar tables instead of badly set up Valleys... They could at the very least have decently setup Valleys...

Brian

ok, i have what is probably a really dumb question, but other than the aesthetics of those corner folds being outside the pocket, do they really have any affect on the playability of the table? granted the loose felt would be a problem, the folds look horrible but does the fold being there have some mystical effect on the way a billiards ball comes of that rail?

Mike

 

[poolplayer2093]

ok, i have what is probably a really dumb question, but other than the aesthetics of those corner folds being outside the pocket, do they really have any affect on the playability of the table? granted the loose felt would be a problem, the folds look horrible but does the fold being there have some mystical effect on the way a billiards ball comes of that rail?

Mike

if anything it just shows how much care/effort they put into their work.

 

[mm4pool]

if anything it just shows how much care/effort they put into their work.

Yes Sir, I agree that it shows a lack of pride in self or craftsmanship. i made better looking corners on my personal table and had never done a table before.

 

[poolplayer2093]

WOW I'm impressed. 400 dollars wouldn't last me a day and 1/2 in Vegas. And that's if I didn't gamble much. Do APA pool players not match up for the cheese?

i'm sure some do. i always got the impression that people that gamble, gamble and people that play league play league.

i played in a league for 2 seasons (had a blast) but there was never any action after the league matches had been played

 

[TWOFORPOOL]

What the hell? I just got back from Las Vegas where I played in the APA nationals for nine ball. It was a team event and we did ok, we came in the money 65th to 34th bracket. I was shocked at the conditions of the tables, the balls were by far the crapiest balls I have ever seen. One of our teammates got bumped after losing two out of three matches. And the biggest kicker is for finishing 34th in the nation in the APA for nine ball we recieved twenty dollars apiece. Technically we got $500 for the team but the APA took $350 of that back. They give you $350 when you arrive in Vegas and if you place in the money they take it back!!!!! WTF.....

The table we played our last match on rolled every way but straight. I could pick the felt up with my fingers and pull it at least six inches off of the slate. I could push the felt at least three inches causing several wrinkles. And every rail bounced and rebounded differently than the last. I think that a company as big as the APA could do a little better for a "National" event. I am out of the APA and was just wondering if anyone else feels the same or experienced the same.

Let me guess you are a 4 or 5 in the APA? I was there this year for the Masters event and the tables I played on were better than average. Yes they were slower than Simonis but the played ok to me. The team I was on was out in 3 matches. We didn't play well and got beat.

APA pays the team 350.00 for LAST PLACE! You received an additional 150.00 more for finishing where you did. They probably also paid for airfare and lodging for you.

I am an APA 7 & 9 and have played in 4 Singles events, 3 Masters events and 1 Scotch doubles event in the last seven years. Overall the tables are in much better shape than in most local taverns.

No league is perfect including the APA. I'm glad you done with the APA so you can joint another league and whine about it.

 

[Das928]

For those of us in Charlotte in the APA would love it. Our city tournament is played on 80 7' Diamond SmartTables!

And when I'm there, all I hear from everyone, no matter where their normal locations are and what they played on, is how great the tables are.

Brian

We can just hold nationals there

 

[The Chipsta]

What the hell? I just got back from Las Vegas where I played in the APA nationals for nine ball. It was a team event and we did ok, we came in the money 65th to 34th bracket. I was shocked at the conditions of the tables, the balls were by far the crapiest balls I have ever seen. One of our teammates got bumped after losing two out of three matches. And the biggest kicker is for finishing 34th in the nation in the APA for nine ball we recieved twenty dollars apiece. Technically we got $500 for the team but the APA took $350 of that back. They give you $350 when you arrive in Vegas and if you place in the money they take it back!!!!! WTF.....

The table we played our last match on rolled every way but straight. I could pick the felt up with my fingers and pull it at least six inches off of the slate. I could push the felt at least three inches causing several wrinkles. And every rail bounced and rebounded differently than the last. I think that a company as big as the APA could do a little better for a "National" event. I am out of the APA and was just wondering if anyone else feels the same or experienced the same.

Just got back myself and the tables played fine. When you set up 300 tables in a short time you will definately need some adjustments to a few of them. We had an issue on one table and they moved the match. A tech was there working on the table in a few minutes. They are on call 24/7 while the tournaments are in town. Valley league uses the same tables for their tournaments. Balls were fine too. Excuses are always easy to find.

I heard a couple of comments about the payouts while I was there. The pre-registered events pay back 100% of the entry fees. While some might think that $150 for finishing 33rd - 48th (out of 192) in the Masters division sucks, you got your money back which is typical for any tournament. You finish at the lower end of the money and you get your money back.

If you don't think that handing you an advance on your prize money is a good idea....can't figure that one out. You get $350 for just showing up and that is bad?

One thing that I don't agree with is that the APA will subsidize the types of leagues it would like to grow. First place in the Women's division was $10K with about 50 teams! If you are in a league area without at least one women's division you need to change that. Low SL players can win serious money at the singles competitions even though very few show up. It will never be perfect or make everybody happy, but I always seem to have a good time when I go.

 

[rope_one]

Just the facts.....

I have played in the APA for 5 years and been to Vegas twice in the last three years for singles. The tables are always the same as far as the folds on the rails. I won't debate if that is the "right" or "wrong" way, but the tables always play solid at the events I was attending. I have never seen lose cloth like what was describe in the OP, but I will freely admit that they play slower than 860, but so does every table with that champion cloth.

As far as paying for games, at singles they have always opened the tables for all matches. (Yes practice and mini mania are always pay, on a strange plus side it tends to filter people out so there are some tables available).

My personal experience coming from an area that plays all its weekly matches on valley tables is exactly the opposite of a couple of different posters. Everyone complained about why are we playing all our weekly matches on valleys and we play on valleys at Nationals but we bring in Diamonds for regionals? I have heard this at two separate events. I would venture to guess that 10% of the shooter didn't care either way or preferred the diamonds (almost exclusively good players), but the other 90% never understood the benefit and would have preferred valleys like they were used to. This came as a genuine surprise to me as I thought the Diamonds at regionals might lead to players pressuring local establishments to make the switch.

Granted I love playing on diamonds and pool in general, but the fact is there are zero Diamond tables within 60 miles of my house and I live less than 4 hours from the factory.

I agree with the other poster who pointed out a simple fact Diamonds are the table of the moment but they are often turned into a convenient excuse for not judging how you really played. Don't get me wrong I think they are the table of the future in all likelihood, especially in the 7 foot arena.

Either way, bash APA all you want if you must, there are legitimate things (not as many as most people like to imagine), but at least keep it factual for the people who have never played. There is no reason to discourage people from enjoying pool more than they do today.

It just seems like there is a lot of misinformation that floats in these threads about the APA specifically. It always makes me wonder who is benefiting from that.

 

[Andrew Henson]

BS thread

I was in Vegas and played on a lot of different tables. Were they all perfect? No. They are nicer than any of the tables we play on at home. I have Simonis at home and championship plays slower but not that much.
The tables were as good as could be expected, they had like six hundred set up. Quit whining if you want perfect tables go to a nice pool hall. APA is bar championship, I have realistic expectations.

 

[UWPoolGod1]

One thing that I don't agree with is that the APA will subsidize the types of leagues it would like to grow. First place in the Women's division was $10K with about 50 teams! If you are in a league area without at least one women's division you need to change that. Low SL players can win serious money at the singles competitions even though very few show up. It will never be perfect or make everybody happy, but I always seem to have a good time when I go.

Yeah our ladies from Bakersfield, CA won the Women's Singles. Congrats Ladies! Last match, race to 4, and our captain was down 0-3 and came back to win. Last game was for $5,000. Some pressure there.

Our 9ball team got 33rd as well and Masters got our money back. I didn't mind the tables. Maybe I got lucky but they didn't hamper the whooping stick.

 

[tucson9ball]

What the hell? I just got back from Las Vegas where I played in the APA nationals for nine ball. It was a team event and we did ok, we came in the money 65th to 34th bracket. I was shocked at the conditions of the tables, the balls were by far the crapiest balls I have ever seen. One of our teammates got bumped after losing two out of three matches. And the biggest kicker is for finishing 34th in the nation in the APA for nine ball we recieved twenty dollars apiece. Technically we got $500 for the team but the APA took $350 of that back. They give you $350 when you arrive in Vegas and if you place in the money they take it back!!!!! WTF.....

The table we played our last match on rolled every way but straight. I could pick the felt up with my fingers and pull it at least six inches off of the slate. I could push the felt at least three inches causing several wrinkles. And every rail bounced and rebounded differently than the last. I think that a company as big as the APA could do a little better for a "National" event. I am out of the APA and was just wondering if anyone else feels the same or experienced the same.

I just got back home from the APA Masters event. I did not have any problems with the tables. I knew they were Valley tables before I went up, so I already was prepared for big pockets. The tables my team played on were in pretty good shape. Only 1 table was a lil off level, but if you try slow rolling on any barbox you are asking for trouble.
As for payouts, my team finished 33rd and the chart said $150. We received $150, same as charts were marked. Maybe this is different for Masters Division than 9ball or 8ball teams?
Ok, that's my .02

 

[tigerseye]

My only complaint is that they play masters league on barboxes.... Now that is a joke...

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Official APA GUM, ?

 

[greyghost]

Official APA GUM, ?

after I spread the rep...your up for a green promotion cowboy!

 

[Craig]

Dude put down the pipe, I will not defend the person who started this thread. But I just got back from Vegas and my team did real well in the Master's tournament (so no excuses from me) but the TABLES were nothing but J.U.N.K..... these tables played as if they rolled them st8 off the truck-hung a light-and said action.

I say BS. I have been here all week and the tables are fine. They are decent Valley Bar Boxes. Nothing more nothing less. To blame the equipment for your loss is just sour grapes. You will never get any better if every time you play on equipment that is less than perfect you can't play your best (and or win).

As far as the money. They didn't "take it back" as you say. They paid you $350 of your payout when you registered your team. The rest of your payout comes when you get knocked out. Everyone knows that.

This event is the best run amateur tournament in the world bar none.

 

[gunzby]

I've heard nothing, but complaints about the tables at this years Nationals. I am really glad that I didn't waste my money going out there this year.

 

[OTB]

I wouldnt go to say valley tables are crap, those just happened to be in crap condition which the APA should have addressed before setting them up. But that would require $$$ they felt was better in there pockets than on the equipment the players were using.........

. Somewhere around 10,000 or so people will probably leave the APA event with the message that Valley tables are a piece of crap.
They are a piece of crap IMHO.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Why do some Pool League do this to their members,

 

[inside_english]

What the hell? I just got back from Las Vegas where I played in the APA nationals for nine ball. It was a team event and we did ok, we came in the money 65th to 34th bracket. I was shocked at the conditions of the tables, the balls were by far the crapiest balls I have ever seen. One of our teammates got bumped after losing two out of three matches. And the biggest kicker is for finishing 34th in the nation in the APA for nine ball we recieved twenty dollars apiece. Technically we got $500 for the team but the APA took $350 of that back. They give you $350 when you arrive in Vegas and if you place in the money they take it back!!!!! WTF.....

The table we played our last match on rolled every way but straight. I could pick the felt up with my fingers and pull it at least six inches off of the slate. I could push the felt at least three inches causing several wrinkles. And every rail bounced and rebounded differently than the last. I think that a company as big as the APA could do a little better for a "National" event. I am out of the APA and was just wondering if anyone else feels the same or experienced the same.

I have never been to Vegas for the APA but having played with them for 1.5 years I congratulate you on quitting.

 

[leehayes]

I was there....the tables were horrible...but at least we all had to play on the same crap. Still....no excuse for crappy tables for a national event.