The APA can kiss my.......

[cbi1000]

OK, you win. They had bad tables. Let's shut down the entire league, string up everyone who has anything to do with the APA.

Do you want to notify all the room owners who host APA leagues and count on them for much of their revenue, or should I?

I'm just saying, bad things happen. When they are, there are two options, fix it or ignore it.
Let's see what they do before we decide to keel-haul 'em all.

Steve

I say keel-haul! I'll bring the rope. Lol

listen. I do understand what your are saying as well. But this ia not the first time the APA has dropped the ball on these types of things. If I was from valley and I showed up and seen those tables... Valley and mercury both lost huge amounts of future money due to this event.

If the tables would have been a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 shiit factory (10 being full on throw up on yourself) I would have not said a word. Or even if it was a table here and there. But it was bad, really bad. By far the worse I've ever seen. 10 on my scale. I sure hope the APA realizes this and makes immt changes.

 

[ugotactionTX]

Wow, I'm impressed

WOW I'm impressed. 400 dollars wouldn't last me a day and 1/2 in Vegas. And that's if I didn't gamble much. Do APA pool players not match up for the cheese?

WAAH!!!!WAAAAHHH!!!!WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

How much did you pay for your plane ticket and your hotel stay? Ummm..... Let me guess..... Absolutely nothing! Am i right?
Basically your team won a trip to spend a week in Las Vegas with your friends. What's wrong with that?
Everything else should be icing on the cake.
So what the tables weren't top notch? Just like other people pointed out, your opponents are playing on the same tables you are.
I'm guessing that you played bad and were the reason you're team faired so poorly. I'm sure if you played great this thread would have been titled "i love the APA".

Last year I was fortunate enough to experience the APA Nationals & I had a blast. My teammates and myself had no expectations. Just went to have fun.
When I wasn't playing pool, I was in the poker room, or mingling with some very attractive young ladies. I went to Vegas with $400 in my pocket and when I stepped on the plane back to Florida, I had about $500 and a slew full of stories to tell my buddies. (he, he)

I get tired of hearing people bash the APA. It's not perfect. It has it's flaws, but surely you must have some fun playing or else you wouldn't show up every week with your weekly dues in hand ready to play. My advice to you would be to quit playing APA, and start your own league. I understand your just voicing your opinion; but then again opinions are like azzholes, everybodys got one.

 

[cardiac kid]

Anyone posting here that says "its the same table for both players" is missing the point. I'm not gonna try to explain that one anymore because its been said over and over by others in this thread.

gpeezy,

Got to disagree with you on that one. You take a ball banger and a good position player and put them on the same table. The table rolls terrible and the cue ball has a loose weight. Which player do you think it would effect more? Remember we're talking about short races here.

Lyn

 

[TheNewSharkster]

nevermind ......

 

[greyghost]

gpeezy,

Got to disagree with you on that one. You take a ball banger and a good position player and put them on the same table. The table rolls terrible and the cue ball has a loose weight. Which player do you think it would effect more? Remember we're talking about short races here.

Lyn

The position player...mr ball banger will be at home just chillin' on the garbage equipment. I've seen quite a few matches b/t good players and not so good players on terrible equipment in those hole in the wall bars. You wouldn't believe many times the better player don't win...at least not in a short race like you said.

G.G.

 

[Holly]

I was thinking of joining the APA, but i keep hearing bad things about it... Is there any leagues or clubs that is worth joining that wont break your bank?

and sorry to hear you got hosed like that in the tournament

- Draz

Draz - call 702-719-7665 the CueSports Intl. / BCAPL office. We offer alternatives that are with the players in mind.

Holly

 

[Big Perm]

This is UNREAL.....this thread is like trying to argue with 10 of my nieces and nephews, all between ages 1 and 6, all at once.....

The TABLES - yes, everybody plays on the same equipment, but NOBODY wants to haul their a$$ to a self-promoted PREMIER event across the country, the biggest of the year, to play on crappy tables that you could have easily matched up on at the local boys club.....yes, the APA should be scolded.....anybody making that type of stupid mistake at a major event should be fired....period....

In an economy where everyone is paying a little more attention to where every dollar goes, this was STUPID....period....don't throw this back on the OP or make excuses....get with your APA representation and make damn sure it does not happen again.....don't make some weak-a$$ed defense of pure incompetence....

The APA is a great concept....it allows people to match up, have fun, and puts customers in pool halls.....that is a plus.....if they would take care of their own, weed out the sandbaggers, and just take some freaking criticism, they would get respect here....I'd also recommend it to friends....but as it sits and with yet another blunder, take it like a man :angry:

Step up and make the changes people....don't offer excuses....

 

[fasteddienc]

I agree that you should be able to compete no matter the table conditions because your competitor does as well. But, we're not talking about playing a weekly league match in a run down bar with a table that hasn't been recovered in 5 years... We're talking about the tables at APA's premier event. The quality of the tables in that sort of event should be higher than most of the participants are used to.

A quote from one of my friends who's ladies team was in Vegas on the tables:
"Not as good as the ones we play on @ cities"

I would expect that APA would have better tables at their premier event than the tables in a leagues city qualifier... APA used to use Diamonds, then they started a sponsorship with Valley, so made sense for them to have switched to Valleys. But from what I can tell that sponsorship is no longer there, so why not go back to Diamonds?

Brian

It's not so much about sponsorship...it is about division. BCAPL is owned by Mark Griffin and Mark is a part owner of Diamond tables. When Mark bought the BCA Pool League and him being a part of Diamond causes a conflict of interest as APA is a competitor of BCAPL. It shouldn't be a big deal but it is.

 

[cardiac kid]

With all the stories about why APA does not play on Diamonds in Vegas, this is the one I think fits best. APA asked Diamond Billiard Products to open the pockets up to the same dimensions as Valley Bar Boxes. Diamond, not wanting to revise their pocket dimensions for a couple hundred tables, said no. Bless Greg Sullivan's heart.

Larry Hubbart was in Rochester a couple of weeks ago. Missed him twice. Would have liked to ask him that question. He was a World Class player. Would he want to play on the tables APA provided for the Nationals? This year or any of the last five.

Lyn

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

. Somewhere around 10,000 or so people will probably leave the APA event with the message that Valley tables are a piece of crap.
They are a piece of crap IMHO.

Honestly was it the Tables, or the Installation, and Poor Cloth? This was the APA's Big Showcase Event to Finish Off a Season. Sounds like it was like Playing the NFL Super Bowl on a MUDDY HIGH SCHOOL FIELD!!!:embarrassed2:

 

[woody_968]

WAAH!!!!WAAAAHHH!!!!WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!

How much did you pay for your plane ticket and your hotel stay? Ummm..... Let me guess..... Absolutely nothing! Am i right?

You may be surprised how some may answer this question. It really depends on the league operator in their area.

Unless something has changed in my area (I quit APA a few years ago) our trips arent paid for. We got VERY limited money to go towards our trip the years that I went to Vegas. We held local fund raisers to help pay for the players that "won" a trip to the big show :sorry:

I dont bash APA because they get people to play the game that otherwise may not play. And I also realize that several of the problems in the league boil down to a local level.

As to the topic of the thread. I would be frustrated if I was going to Vegas to play in what is considered to be the biggest event for APA and found poor playing tables. But then again, at least the playing conditions would be the same as most of the bars you have to play in at home

 

[pooltchr]

It's not so much about sponsorship...it is about division. BCAPL is owned by Mark Griffin and Mark is a part owner of Diamond tables. When Mark bought the BCA Pool League and him being a part of Diamond causes a conflict of interest as APA is a competitor of BCAPL. It shouldn't be a big deal but it is.

I don't buy into the conflict of interest theory. Before the BCA sold the league to mark, they were operating the league. I believe at the same time that the head of the APA was on the BCA board of directors.

But then, there are a lot of politics in the billiard industry, so who really knows?

Steve

 

[cardiac kid]

It's not so much about sponsorship...it is about division. BCAPL is owned by Mark Griffin and Mark is a part owner of Diamond tables. When Mark bought the BCA Pool League and him being a part of Diamond causes a conflict of interest as APA is a competitor of BCAPL. It shouldn't be a big deal but it is.

I would think VNEA is a much bigger competitor for APA than BCAPL. My guess is APA did not want the more difficult Diamond condition for it's players. Seems like they found one anyway!

Lyn

 

[accustatsfan]

The pictures do tell a sad story -- would an installer (clearly not a mechanic) who would do that take the time to stretch the cloth properly, align the rails correctly, and level the table? Probably not.

This seems like a bad thing from Valley's perspective. Somewhere around 10,000 or so people will probably leave the APA event with the message that Valley tables are a piece of crap. Valley probably wasn't the vendor, but it would be much better if the vendor was actually Valley or Diamond so that they had a direct financial interest in putting together tables that players like. For example, I suspect the Valley tables are in great shape for the VNEA national tournament.

And the tables were great back in the Diamonds with Simonis days. Anybody know the story of why that ended?

But to the point at hand, it was the same crappy table for both teams, and teams in traveling leagues routinely have to play on some pretty marginal tables, so it's not really an excuse for losing. Just a reason for disappointment in the event. (In fairness, the original poster didn't actually blame the tables for his team's loss.)

Cory

Agree with your points I would think equipment at a national event would be first rate. What a chance for players to go back to their part of the company and rave about the equipment. I would think sales would skyrocket for rec and pool room.

I feel I shouldn't have to adjust to less than "perfect" conditions at a national event. At a dollar a game I would think the vendors who supply the equipment do just fine.

I don't have an opinion about what brand of table they use; Diamonds are "in" right now 10-15 years from now it will be something else that's "it". How many GCIII's went on the market to make room for a Diamond?

I would be curious to know how Mercury cloth plays. I have Simonis 860HR (prefer it) on my 9 foot table but I think bar tables that play like a air hockey table is overboard.

 

[btoneill]

I would think VNEA is a much bigger competitor for APA than BCAPL. My guess is APA did not want the more difficult Diamond condition for it's players. Seems like they found one anyway!

For those of us in Charlotte in the APA would love it. Our city tournament is played on 80 7' Diamond SmartTables!

And when I'm there, all I hear from everyone, no matter where their normal locations are and what they played on, is how great the tables are.

Brian

 

[rackem]

Might just be time for Globe make an offer?

I don't buy into the conflict of interest theory. Before the BCA sold the league to mark, they were operating the league. I believe at the same time that the head of the APA was on the BCA board of directors.

But then, there are a lot of politics in the billiard industry, so who really knows?

Steve

Thank God we are not shooting each other over it.

Maybe we should not blame Valley
It really sounds more like an installation and choice of cloth problem.
That is done by a private contractor.
It use to be High Country Promotions. WHO is it now?
3rd time I asked. Anybody know???

 

[btoneill]

Thank God we are not shooting each other over it.

Maybe we should not blame Valley
It really sounds more like an installation and choice of cloth problem.
That is done by a private contractor.
It use to be High Country Promotions. WHO is it now?
3rd time I asked. Anybody know???

Make Griffin stated that it is still High Country Promotions, but he wasn't sure if they contracted it out to someone else.

I don't think anyone has blamed Valley any more than the normal blasting of Valley tables as having gully pockets that suck balls in... Which is Valley's defense is intended... The easier a ball is to pocket, the quicker the game goes, the more quarters get dropped.

Brian

 

[rackem]

Make Griffin stated that it is still High Country Promotions, but he wasn't sure if they contracted it out to someone else.

I don't think anyone has blamed Valley any more than the normal blasting of Valley tables as having gully pockets that suck balls in... Which is Valley's defense is intended... The easier a ball is to pocket, the quicker the game goes, the more quarters get dropped.

Brian

It seems to me that all the rails would be prepared ahead of time.
Working in the shop under no time restraint.
I just don't understand the inward fold.
Is that a common practice anywhere in the industry.

Who streched the cloth?
Maybe the Riviera Bell Hop Union??

 

[kaznj]

I played in Vegas 8ball last year. I don't remember having a terrible time with the tables. What bothered me was that we had to pay to use the tables. That was practice AND matches. I was stunned.
I thought that for the size of the event that things went well. I am not a big apa fan, but I think they serve there purpose. First they are a business. They make a lot of money and give a little back. For the amount of money they take in I believe the payout is a small percentage. Secondly they get less experienced players involved.
It is interesting how this is done. Players get moved up quicker than I think they should. The team must break up. Those who want to continue to play then go out and recruit new players. No cost to the apa.

 

[Pelican]

The last time i went to Vegas for the APA was in 2004 when they still had Diamond tables and Simonis cloth. A few of my buddies went out this year, and he got there and called me right away and said "you should be happy you didn't come, the tables are HORRENDOUS." He said the tables are the biggest piece of crap Valley's and the cloth is like playing in grass, the balls barely roll, and he's not even going to play pool because it's so bad.

Makes me not want to go out there next year. The best part of going there to play was the Diamond smart tables.

Hey Mack, you must have gone in '03. I went in '04 and that was the year they went back to Valley. I was disappointed because I was looking forward to playing on a Diamond.