What is the progression to being a great player?

P

Peter.

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Hey everyone. I've been playing pool seriously for about two years, trying my best to become as good as I can.

I was playing a lot before summer vacation started(I'm a junior in high school) but I went on a trip for most of summer, and didn't play much pool. But it didn't really affect my game, it took a day or two to dial it back in.

The last couple weeks I've played in some weekly bar tournaments. I'm also playing as much as I can, I go out and play almost every day after school with my mentor and opponent Rob. This guy has done me well, even if he takes my money :o. He takes me out to the tournaments and to the bar to practice, and says he's my dad so I don't get kicked out. He's a very good player and a decent guy.

The last four tournaments, I've placed. 1st, 3rd, 1st, 3rd. I'm feeling pretty solid. There are some good players, and it's no cakewalk. I kind of feel like I'm becoming one of the players guys don't wanna draw first round, if you know what I mean :wink:. I guess I've still got some work to do though, since I'm not winning everything, and I'm making costly mistakes. I had a shot to win both the tournaments I got 3rd in, I just blew it. One of those, I messed up a break and run on the key ball and it knocked me from the winner's bracket to out of the tournament without me getting to shoot once. Sometimes that happens though, I better just stop doing it.

Anyway, I feel like I'm coming to a junction. I've been improving steadily, and I want to keep that up. I can keep playing these tournaments, and having a great time, and winning money, funding my pool habit :rolleyes:. But I don't want to just play, I want to make a living out of pool. I need to know what my next step is. For those of you playing at a really high level, what was your path to success?

Right now I live in Prescott, AZ, a town without a pool hall and 5 dollar buy-in bar tournaments. Not exactly a breeding ground for success. However, I do plan to move back to Seattle after high school. I really want to be good by the time I go back up so I can make some money, and keep getting better in the big city.

So, that's where I am. I'm happy with how it's going so far, and I'm trying to use all the tools available to me to make it as a pool player. This game is just about the only thing I have a serious passion for, and I need to follow my dream. I know I'm still a novice, but I feel like I'm maturing as a player. Thanks for reading guys, any advice or commentary is truly appreciated.
 
Progression to playing greatness.

1. You suck.
2. You still suck.
3. Hey, that wasn't too sucky.
4. Hmmm. Not bad. Hardly any suckiness at all.
5. Good shot, dude.
6. Where'd you learn that?
7. Can you do that every time?
8. You're great.


<time passes>


You suck. :banghead:
 
My two cents is worth about half that...but I'm going to throw it out there anyway.

"Giftie gie us"

Robert Byrne put this in his book for a reason.

Translated it means roughly "Give me the power to see myself as others see me" Every person on this site has seen themselves as a better player than others do...myself very much included.

Find yourself a professional instructor and spend the chips to have them spend a day with you, evaluate your game from non-biased point of view and go from there.

There are TONS of great players on this site, and loads of brilliant instructors that are worth their weight in gold. If you're as serious on pursuing this evil mistress of a game we've all followed as you've said it's a minimal time/monetary investment.

I'd be willing to bet if you follow this path your questions will answer themselves.

Either way..good luck to you and good racks abound.

Mattie
 
If, you've already done all of the following:

Played 6 or more hours per/day for 6 months.
You are disciplined and spend your practice time wisely.
Consistently play better players.

Then, you should be a fairly decent player at this point.

So, the short answer is, that to be truly great need to have an extraordinary natural billiards talent. I say this because how far you go in pool is a complex combination of physical and mental skills whereby you will ultimately reach the last plateau in your game. For most players out there, how far we get depends a lot on whether our minds and bodies are wired or/not for pool, golf, chess...you name it.

Have you ever stood at a tee and wondered why the guy hitting the ball has a 2 handicap and you have a 12? Or why when you take up a game like chess, some players settle in at 2000 and others can't get past 1350 despite the same amount of study, practice and playing? My point is that most players will quickly find a natural level that they can't easily go beyond.

I have personally known only one player (Mark Wilson) that didn't have the natural ability, yet was able to through sheer persistence, a disciplined appoach and mucho practice time wind up being a pretty good shot.

Fred
 
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Become a great player??? That ain't so easy my friend. I tried hard for about ten years and never made it. Of course I only played 10-12 hours a day on average, and maybe only 360 days a year. I guess I just didn't put in enough time. :wink:

The truth hurts. My guesstimate is that one year of dedication/obsession (minimum 6-8 hours a day) and you can become a good shot maker. A second year just like the first and you may learn how to control the cue ball. Finally a third year to put it all together, learn all the tricks of the trade and play your best speed under fire. At this point (after three years) you may well be a very good player, but not a champion yet.

The big jump from player to champion is all upstairs. You have to be mentally strong, stronger than your opponents. Nothing can faze you or distract you. And I mean NOTHING! You must remain cool under pressure. And this my friend is why there are a lot of good players, but not so many great players.
 
jay helfert said:
You have to be mentally strong, stronger than your opponents. Nothing can faze you or distract you. And I mean NOTHING! You must remain cool under pressure. And this my friend is why there are a lot of good players, but not so many great players.
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My chiropracter was on the golf team in college. When he was a freshman, the older guys could do anything to him while they were playing as long as they didn't touch him. After a year of that, he said he didn't ever rattle again.
 
jay helfert said:
Become a great player??? That ain't so easy my friend. I tried hard for about ten years and never made it. Of course I only played 10-12 hours a day on average, and maybe only 360 days a year. I guess I just didn't put in enough time. :wink:

The truth hurts. My guesstimate is that one year of dedication/obsession (minimum 6-8 hours a day) and you can become a good shot maker. A second year just like the first and you may learn how to control the cue ball. Finally a third year to put it all together, learn all the tricks of the trade and play your best speed under fire. At this point (after three years) you may well be a very good player, but not a champion yet.

The big jump from player to champion is all upstairs. You have to be mentally strong, stronger than your opponents. Nothing can faze you or distract you. And I mean NOTHING! You must remain cool under pressure. And this my friend is why there are a lot of good players, but not so many great players.
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I hope you read what Jay says here, but more importantly, I hope you hear it. I agree with him in that the difference is all upstairs.

I was in Shreveport La, years ago when Buddy Hall was in his hayday and in a zone that may never be repeated. He was just unbeatable at that period. There was a youngster who had lot's of talent and was playing better and better, but in key situations squandered too many oppritunities. His frustration was obvious and his confidence was starting to waver. Buddy went over to him and put his hand on the kids shoulder and I never forgot this, as he said " Son someting you got to learn about this game and the sooner the better,,,you got to play like you practice or practice like you play, cause if you don't, your arm and head is gonna stay screwed up!! He furtherly added, don't worry so much about winning the game, just complete the game as it should be done!!
 
ironman said:
I agree with him in that the difference is all upstairs.
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Even as a rookie player, I would agree with this. In ALL the individual skill sports: bowling, tennis, figure skating, golf, etc. everybody can do it perfectly in the living room or in practice, but what makes a True Champion is the ability to perform under pressure, when there's a million dollars on the line, a gold medal, a world championship, with 200 million people watching you on TV as the camera zooms in to a closeup of your eyeball.

Ruark
 
I don't know about "great" but to become the best player you can be is a lot easier these days, as the old timers took their secrets to the grave with them.

Become a student of the game; read books, buy tapes, take lessons, attend events, do everything you can to become the very best player you can be. Most players I know have accumulated a small library of books and tapes and DVDs, and try to gather as much information as they can get their hands on. Practice as well as play, and attend every tournament you can.
 
Advice

All pretty good advice being recomended, but my advice is to stay in school and get your education, including a post graduate degree (now days it is almost a necessity). Keep Pool as a hobby, get better, and be a semi pro level, compete in tournaments, gamble some if you want, but keep your job.

Being a pro player in today's environment is the pits for making a livable wage. I know it looks attractive right now, but 20 years from now, it won't.

You can use all the logic in the world, but that won't necessarily make you a great player, it takes raw talent too, and not everyone has enough of that.
 
Hey Peter,

A junior in high school with two years under your belt. I was into my third year of playing at your age. I can almost remember what it was like.

So you want to be a pool-player. I don't know what it's like living in Prescott, Az. Playing bar-room pool.

I grew up in a small city just outside Boston, Ma. By the time I reached my senior year in high school, I couldn't get a game in my local pool-room. I was forced to go and play in other cities. I managed to find a couple of great rooms, in surrounding cities. I was living the dream, making good money, (1968, probably $150 a week.) Then Vietnam went full scale and a lot of the players I was beating ended up over there. It was even harder finding a game.

After high school I was lucky enough to find a job,(what was then New England Telephone Co.) and I ended up in the National Guard and not in Vietnam. It was sheer luck that I ended up where I did.

At twenty-one or so I couldn,t find a game, on the North Shore in the Boston area. The rooms I could probably get a game in were in Boston. I shied away from those rooms. I heard to many horror stories. The inmates were running the asylum. I played three cushion billiards for several years before getting back into pool and having a very successful career. I'm now 59 years old.I'm still having a lot of success.

What does all this mean?

Forty-six years ago I felt the same way you do, right now. Pool was my life. I couldn't get enough of it. Nothing else mattered.

If you want to be the best you can be, you have to venture out in the world and find out where you stand. Are you playing on 9' tables with tight pockets. This might have a bearing on how good you are.

The last thing I want to ask, "Do your parents know about your ambitions?"

A couple of things you might also consider.

Don't do drugs or drink alcohol, these things are for losers. I know, I traveled down that road.

You may want to have a back-up plan also, like a real job.

Good luck.
 
You get out of pool what you put in it. Considering you have some ability and can learn/ understand, its all about playing after that. Drills and play makes the player.
 
Hi Peter,

I would look at the European/Asian model of trying to improve. It's like a business and they take it very seriously. Look at players such as Ralf Souquet and Thorsten Hohman, the very structured practice and coaching, etc. They have very structured league systems that seem to develop very solid players. The PAT system is an example of that structure.

Also, having a backup plan such as college may not be a bad idea. I heard yesterday that Oscar Dominguez is going to school and may attend medical school afterwards :eek: and he is a great young player.
 
Im working on this theory for this question. For the last 3 and 1/2 years I have been keeping up with how much serious practice I put in. My goal is around 10000 hours of good practice. In the last 3years or so I have recorded over 4000 hrs of just practice. The transition is slow but I can see the path now. The way I figure Im probably up around a total of 7000 hours of practice because of all the gambling, tournaments, and time before I started keeping up with it.
 
You guys are all wrong

Great players are born that way. Buddy Hall was beating champions a year after he picked up a stick. Ask Scott Frost how old he was before he knew he had a gift. Do you think Efren got that good because he practiced a lot? He played a lot because he had this unique gift. How old was Earl before he was a world-beater? Like 12 maybe?
 
Chesscat said:
Great players are born that way. Buddy Hall was beating champions a year after he picked up a stick. Ask Scott Frost how old he was before he knew he had a gift. Do you think Efren got that good because he practiced a lot? He played a lot because he had this unique gift. How old was Earl before he was a world-beater? Like 12 maybe?
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It's the exception that proves the rule. And NONE of these guys got to be champions quite as fast as you make it sound. I remember watching Toby Sweet give Buddy the eight ball and beat him. Buddy was around 20 or 21 then. Scott Frost lost a lot more than he won early on. Efren, like many American champions (Mizerak, Hopkins, Rempe etc.) started out at a very young age (under ten years old). And yes they were good players by the time they were twelve or thirteen. But champions, not yet. That didn't happen until a few years (and a million balls) later.
 
I read something some time back that Blackjack put together about what it takes to be a champion. Maybe he would post it on this thread. It was well worth reading for anyone who is serious about their game.

David?????

Steve
 
First, the quesiton is not what it takes to be a world-beating champion, but what it takes to be a great player. By my standards, there are tens of thousand of great players.

What's the path to being a great player?

By observation, these are the eight rungs of the ladder on the way to being a great player.

1) you know how to hit the cue ball in the intended direction with relative consistency
2) knowing how to pocket balls with reasonable conaistency but with little command of position play
3) knowing how to pocket balls with reasonable consistency and having a reasonable command of posiiton play using follow, stop and draw, without english
4) knowing how to pocket balls with reasonable consistency and having a reasonable command of follow, stop and draw, with center ball and outside english. having decent but not exceptional speed control and a rudimentry command of defensive and tactical play
5) knowing how to pocket balls with reasonable consistency and having a reasonable command of follow, stop and draw, with center ball and outside english. having solid speed control and a rudimentary command of defensive and tactical play
6) knowing how to pocket balls with reasonable consistency and having a reasonable command of follow, stop, stun and draw, with center ball, inside and outside english. having solid speed control and a solid command of defensive and tactical play
7) knowing how to pocket balls with excellent consistency and having a strong command of follow, stop, stun and draw, with center ball, inside and outside english. having solid speed control and a solid command of defensive and tactical play.
8) adding a strong pre-shot routine and mental toughness to all your developed skills, developing a strong competitive pedigree

In my expereince, few players ever progress beyong the fifth rung of my ladder, but the great ones are the select few who get all the way to the eighth rung of the ladder. Obviously, instruction, practice and competition figure prominently if you hope to climb the ladder of pool excellence.
 
Scott Frost plays out of Kolby's Korner Pocket in Tempe... I think. Find him and see if you can get an assessment of where you are.
 
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