What is the progression to being a great player?
- Thread starter Peter.
- Start date
Lot's of great progression processes here. I will tell you how I developed and undeveloped my pool skills.
First, to play at a high level(pro or good money), you need to play 1 - 2 hours a day or so to maintain, I believe. Maybe less would be ok, but I believe you really have to put the time into it.
To get there though, IMO, takes this recipe, which I followed through college. You need to play 1 - 2 hours a day to maintain your level. You need an additional 3 - 4 hours of skill development. Really, I would spend hours on shots I had missed in competition, hours on standard pool drills, hours on draw and follow/table speed, hours on 1 - 2 - 3 rail position, hours kicking from various positions. The key to this skill practice in my opinion was to develop a real muscle/mental memory of these things, so I was no longer saying to myself before a shot, draw to here. You want to develop a sense of been there and done that so it is automatic. You can't play at a high level, thinking about stroke, bridge, aiming, speed, etc. It has to be natural. That way when you get into a high pressure situation, all you have to do is focus on is finding your opponents weakness and matching up to the new table speed and pocket sizes.
So, the hours I'm quoting are minimal. As a diehard pool player, you will find your own playing speed and time needed to practice. You need to find better players to play against and find top flight players in your area to work towards and beat.
First, to play at a high level(pro or good money), you need to play 1 - 2 hours a day or so to maintain, I believe. Maybe less would be ok, but I believe you really have to put the time into it.
To get there though, IMO, takes this recipe, which I followed through college. You need to play 1 - 2 hours a day to maintain your level. You need an additional 3 - 4 hours of skill development. Really, I would spend hours on shots I had missed in competition, hours on standard pool drills, hours on draw and follow/table speed, hours on 1 - 2 - 3 rail position, hours kicking from various positions. The key to this skill practice in my opinion was to develop a real muscle/mental memory of these things, so I was no longer saying to myself before a shot, draw to here. You want to develop a sense of been there and done that so it is automatic. You can't play at a high level, thinking about stroke, bridge, aiming, speed, etc. It has to be natural. That way when you get into a high pressure situation, all you have to do is focus on is finding your opponents weakness and matching up to the new table speed and pocket sizes.
So, the hours I'm quoting are minimal. As a diehard pool player, you will find your own playing speed and time needed to practice. You need to find better players to play against and find top flight players in your area to work towards and beat.
FWIW - The advice on here is priceless.
For a JH student - you write impeccably well. Pursue your dreams, find something that brings the $ while giving you time to pursue pool. It can be done.
For a JH student - you write impeccably well. Pursue your dreams, find something that brings the $ while giving you time to pursue pool. It can be done.
Peter,
There is a lot of really fantastic advice here, and a lot of knowledge to be learned in all of their words. Check out a thread the "sixpack" started yesterday too.. some good info.
Without being too judgemental here... I've just got to say... you don't know, what you don't know!!!!!! People (and Hollywood) like to romanticize things like war, and 'hustling'. Before you decide on which path to follow, you need to talk to a few handfulls of people that have been there and are honest about the good AND the bad. Have long personal conversations if they will allow it. Listen to the last runout radio here on AZB and HEAR Johnny's words about chances for success in pro tournies. Check out the lifestyle of a real gambler... what they have to do, where they have to be, how much time they spend doing it to achieve whatever results they have. You don't know what you don't know... and it is commendable that you come here for info.. that shows some good judgement IMO.
Come on down the hill, and play with the big boys here in the valley. You can get a taste of what you need to know, and what level you need to play to even have a CHANCE at winning. There are plenty of events on weekends to go to for minimal entry fees where you can play with a full field of players. If I'm at one of them, I'd be glad to have a conversation
(Tim D.M.) with you... I've seen plenty, I consider myself in no means a "Player", but I do know what I know :wink: LOL.
Good luck....
td
Ohh, to be young. 20 years ago I said exactly the same words.
Take it from someone that actually gave it a try although at another game.
I was a master and a small time champion, had talent and worked hard. Good enough to be in top 2%.
In the end it wasn't enough talent.
At 27, I got up one day and realized it wasn't going to happen, you should see the emptiness.
At 31, I actually did something about it, for it is hard to make a change and the older you get the harder it is.
It wasn't easy but I went back to school, graduated, got an excellent job and make good money. If I put that much effort into something else……….
So here is some advice:
1. Give it a try, you cannot go through life wandering what if......
2. Give your self a way out, minimum finish senior high with grades good enough that you can continue education if one day you have to.
3. Try to become more than one dimensional character, people & priorities change over time, so be more than just a player.
4. Get laid before you are 20, it will put things in perspective (… but play safe).
And remember a 20 year old that is broke is a lot more appealing to a woman than a 30 year old.
Good luck!
Ohh, to be young. 20 years ago I said exactly the same words.
Take it from someone that actually gave it a try although at another game.
I was a master and a small time champion, had talent and worked hard. Good enough to be in top 2%.
In the end it wasn't enough talent.
At 27, I got up one day and realized it wasn't going to happen, you should see the emptiness.
At 31, I actually did something about it, for it is hard to make a change and the older you get the harder it is.
It wasn't easy but I went back to school, graduated, got an excellent job and make good money. If I put that much effort into something else……….
So here is some advice:
1. Give it a try, you cannot go through life wandering what if......
2. Give your self a way out, minimum finish senior high with grades good enough that you can continue education if one day you have to.
3. Try to become more than one dimensional character, people & priorities change over time, so be more than just a player.
4. Get laid before you are 20, it will put things in perspective (… but play safe).
And remember a 20 year old that is broke is a lot more appealing to a woman than a 30 year old.
Good luck!
You get rep points from me for this. Good advice on a variety of subject matter. And damn funny too! :wink:
Self-Sustaining and indomitable will.
Believe in yourself but above all else, be true to thine own self.
Listen not to naysayers. They will cripple your body and your mind.
Associate with top players to see what it is that they possess and determine for yourself if this is what you truly want.
Seattle???? Go and sit at the Master's table, be quiet, look, listen, learn and if he invites you to be a disciple, shave your head immediately, take the vow of celibacy and drink the kool-aid without reservation.
Just be assured that while all things are possible, becoming a champion at anything requires an unquenchable desire to overcome. As someone else so aptly expressed to me in a private mail:
A champion must possess a self-sustaining and indomitable will.
JoeyA
Believe in yourself but above all else, be true to thine own self.
Listen not to naysayers. They will cripple your body and your mind.
Associate with top players to see what it is that they possess and determine for yourself if this is what you truly want.
Seattle???? Go and sit at the Master's table, be quiet, look, listen, learn and if he invites you to be a disciple, shave your head immediately, take the vow of celibacy and drink the kool-aid without reservation.
Just be assured that while all things are possible, becoming a champion at anything requires an unquenchable desire to overcome. As someone else so aptly expressed to me in a private mail:
A champion must possess a self-sustaining and indomitable will.
JoeyA
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let's throw a curve ball here:
not to hijack the thread but;
let's say you HAVE TO become a top tier pool player in nineball. for motivation let's say a major financial reward awaits when you win a major championship along the lines of derby city or usopen.. you are now motivated. you have ten years to get there.
what do you do now? you are committed to the deal; coaching, hustling, hit the road? you don't have a wife, no kids, no obligations except pool. what next? let's hear it.
not to hijack the thread but;
let's say you HAVE TO become a top tier pool player in nineball. for motivation let's say a major financial reward awaits when you win a major championship along the lines of derby city or usopen.. you are now motivated. you have ten years to get there.
what do you do now? you are committed to the deal; coaching, hustling, hit the road? you don't have a wife, no kids, no obligations except pool. what next? let's hear it.
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We all admire the wisdom of people who come to us for advice. :grin:
As it is now, I have some experience, but a lot to learn. Continuing what I'm doing now will only get me so far so I need to seek out the best players available to me. I'm already making arrangements to meet with two of the top players in the area, and I'm going to get some lessons from them. I know those who know more than me are one of my best resources. At the same time, Bob Sodo is trying to open a pool hall. When that place opens up, I'll get a lot more table time. So the next two years or so involve getting lessons from the best around, playing tournaments, playing at the pool hall, and gambling. My skill set will be augmented sufficiently by the time I move back to Seattle to compete with the players there. I'll be able to play better players, and bigger tournaments in the city than here. I'll just have to keep seeking out the best around and immersing myself the the community. I don't know the specific tournaments, but I assume there are tournaments larger in scope than 16 players and a 5 dollar buy-in. I'll play those, and keep playing, and by the time ten years is up, I can't help but be good!
ok let's say that.....
First stage is to learn how to play the game.
You can make money at the game just by matching up right as an ok player.
If you want to be a top player, your best bet is to find a REALLY good instructor and learn the game as much as possible. You HAVE to learn the game to be the best you can be.
Someone will inevitably come on and say how so and so just knew how to play the game....
That's B.S. and even if it's not, then that 1% of 1% of the players is not likely to be you. So learn the game.
Then practice.
my biggest progression came when I was practicing 12-15 hours a dy six days a week.
I just watched the Tony Robles interview where he was talking about the two year stretch where he was playing 12 hours a day six days a week.
So PRACTICE A LOT!!!!
Then get out there and match up. Play in the toughest tourneys you can against the toughest opponents.
PLAY AGAINST THE TOUGHEST COMPETITION you can...
Nothing will improve your game like having to play the best pool possible to be able to win.
When you think you've learned all you can and practices as much as you can, learn some more and practice some more, because no one has learned all they can or practiced as much as they can....
Jaden
p.s. this is not the vicodin talking...
First stage is to learn how to play the game.
You can make money at the game just by matching up right as an ok player.
If you want to be a top player, your best bet is to find a REALLY good instructor and learn the game as much as possible. You HAVE to learn the game to be the best you can be.
Someone will inevitably come on and say how so and so just knew how to play the game....
That's B.S. and even if it's not, then that 1% of 1% of the players is not likely to be you. So learn the game.
Then practice.
my biggest progression came when I was practicing 12-15 hours a dy six days a week.
I just watched the Tony Robles interview where he was talking about the two year stretch where he was playing 12 hours a day six days a week.
So PRACTICE A LOT!!!!
Then get out there and match up. Play in the toughest tourneys you can against the toughest opponents.
PLAY AGAINST THE TOUGHEST COMPETITION you can...
Nothing will improve your game like having to play the best pool possible to be able to win.
When you think you've learned all you can and practices as much as you can, learn some more and practice some more, because no one has learned all they can or practiced as much as they can....
Jaden
p.s. this is not the vicodin talking...
ok a couple of things...
Seeking out the best players is good to watch them and see what patterns etc. they are doing.
Seeking out the best players to teach you is not necessarily a good thing to do.
Often times the better players are overcoming bad habits to play well or don't understand wwhat they are doing to play as well as they do.
Find GOOD instruction if you want to learn how to play. Find the better players to play against or to find out good shot selection.
Jaden
Seeking out the best players is good to watch them and see what patterns etc. they are doing.
Seeking out the best players to teach you is not necessarily a good thing to do.
Often times the better players are overcoming bad habits to play well or don't understand wwhat they are doing to play as well as they do.
Find GOOD instruction if you want to learn how to play. Find the better players to play against or to find out good shot selection.
Jaden
not to be negative but don't ever get jaded.....its no joke tough hardest work ever
make sure you don't want to be dictated by only one thing in life, many great players can do nothing but play pool...like really old kids. No insurance, no security, you ever get hungry? Try having to play so you can eat, you miss you starve. It can be wonderful but if you don't be careful things can get out of hand more than you want really quickly. Up for days playing, can't see, cant feel your back no more. There can be guns, drugs, and other uncool situations your going to face. Just know that its not as cool as you might think at times....when your starving and decide to go get a job its hard to put pool player as a qualification...
I say diversify your life get a great career and use that finanical backing to help you get were you want to, i think most quit before they ever really show major progress cuz of the $$ issue, well wouldn't it be nice to have insurance, be your own backer, and just go play any tournament when you want because you got the cash and your just there to win, not win your next meal ticket. So you can focus on your game in all the right ways.
An you know what they say about a pool player without a girlfriend....
make sure you don't want to be dictated by only one thing in life, many great players can do nothing but play pool...like really old kids. No insurance, no security, you ever get hungry? Try having to play so you can eat, you miss you starve. It can be wonderful but if you don't be careful things can get out of hand more than you want really quickly. Up for days playing, can't see, cant feel your back no more. There can be guns, drugs, and other uncool situations your going to face. Just know that its not as cool as you might think at times....when your starving and decide to go get a job its hard to put pool player as a qualification...
I say diversify your life get a great career and use that finanical backing to help you get were you want to, i think most quit before they ever really show major progress cuz of the $$ issue, well wouldn't it be nice to have insurance, be your own backer, and just go play any tournament when you want because you got the cash and your just there to win, not win your next meal ticket. So you can focus on your game in all the right ways.
An you know what they say about a pool player without a girlfriend....
this is a great observation IMO!! i love how all begins with pocketing balls. So may youngsters in this game today seem to not pay much attention to this # 1 rule of pool. this basic rule is what seperates allthe "Big Boys" from all us ,,,"other guys"! Every game ends with a pocketed ball!
Again and IMO, too may try to win from a missed ball!!
This is a great observation IMO!!
This is great information too.
I remember when Efren was becoming the great 1 pocket player he obviously is. He and Grady were playing in I think Chicage. They were all there sweating this match intensly and saying very little. the like of the Miz, Seigel, Buddy, hopkins, and many many more. Efren put on a clinic that day to a very soemn crowd. It was a special time in pool.
i over heard someone ask Hopkins I think it was, what he thought of Efrens 1 pocket and he replied, " hell, we all play 1 pocket, I don't know what the hell he plays"! It was the greatest compiment I ever heard from a great player!