Case John Barton had at the ICC Show!
- Thread starter CocoboloCowboy
- Start date
very cool case John! 
how flippin' sweet is that?!?!?
He copied that from an old john wayne movie it was an arrow holder
Oh come on Jack tell us how you really feel!!!!!!!!:grin:
Hey Jack,
Let me tell you something, I do admire you and your work and for several times I was just about to grab the phone to order a case from you. I have friends that spend with you thousands of dollars and you do whatever they tell you to do.
With all due respect Jack, because you deserve it due to your talent and what you've done in the cue case making world.
You came a long ways, you also had ugly cases on the beginning and I am sure you always looked around you grabbing ideas to improve your cases right?
You have some awesome looking cases and you know how to put together different pieces of leather and make a case come alive like nobody else.
John before he was my friend, I already admired his work and yours...
I think you need to pay John some respect because he knows how to innovate (I've heard you are improving your light interior of your cases, right?), even using some bits and pieces of other ideas floating out there.
I might never be able to get a case from you Jack after this post but John every time he speaks about you, he speaks about you with the up most respect and admiration and some people when they try to take John's side on things and try bad mouth you he never let's people do that. Perhaps you did not know that...
This case was ordered to be included in a SW cue theme and I think that John and his team did a fantastic job and looks super killer.
John's thoughts on this case:
This case was done to be something like a quiver. My thought was that it should be something that an Indian would carry and that he would have his medicine bag hanging from the quiver. The medicine bag pouch is detachable.
The basic envelope style that the case is built on is the very basic way to build any kind of case - fold a piece of leather and close it on one side somehow. We chose to lace it using a primitive lacing method.
This case is not copied from any one else's work in any way. I studied quivers to get a basic feel for how they were done. The strap might just be the most comfortable strap I have ever done on a case. It's a piece of cowhide suede that I just cut a wide strip of and we laced it into the seam.
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This is quoted from Mr. Barton's webpage at the link provided above.
"SouthWest Medicine BagCase
This case was built to match Roy Malott's prized SouthWest "Medicine Bag" cue. The cue's theme was Indian medicine bags and the case was built in the natural way that an Indian may have made it hundreds of years ago with only rudimentary tools at his disposal. The only concession to modernity was that we used our protective tubing inside to insure that the unique 1993 South West cue is protected with the level of padding and love that we are famous for.
Otherwise it is made with buffalo lace, charred deerskin, handmade leather beads, and handcrafted leather eagle feathers.
Roy wanted three eagle feathers to represent the three strengths of this project, SouthWest Cues, Indy Q Shop (Roy's business that was born in 1993), and JB Cases.
This case was done to be something like a quiver. My thought was that it should be something that an Indian would carry and that he would have his medicine bag hanging from the quiver. The medicine bag pouch is detachable.
The basic envelope style that the case is built on is the very basic way to build any kind of case - fold a piece of leather and close it on one side somehow. We chose to lace it using a primitive lacing method.
This case is not copied from any one else's work in any way. I studied quivers to get a basic feel for how they were done. The strap might just be the most comfortable strap I have ever done on a case. It's a piece of cowhide suede that I just cut a wide strip of and we laced it into the seam.
This case is quite a departure from our normal style and it made quite an impression at the 2009 International Cue Collector's show where it was displayed for the first time."
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Mr. Justis, your work is admirable. Your demeanor is usually quite nice. I have followed your issues with Mr. Barton along with everyone else. Do you honestly feel that this case copies anyone else's? I understood Mr. Brianna to be making a joke.
This is not a very nice comment to make about a fellow case maker. Would this be something you would allow in your case making guild that you proposed a while ago? In another thread a few days ago you said that the ACA handles issues among cue makers and you felt that there should be a case making guild as well.
Where do you see Mr. Barton as copying? When I look at his website I see cases that are far beyond what I see at yours and other notable case makers doing work today. Of course there is the one line that has a similar look to yours but then yours look like cases which came before you began. And then Mr. Barton makes the GTF line, of which I own several, and he gives clear tribute to the origins of that style. The vast majority of cases at Mr. Barton's website are unique and different. He may be abrasive but his work clearly stands alone among case makers for it's innovation in my opinion.
Honestly sir, I was considering contacting you to see if it would be possible to still get a Justis case to round out my collection but I am reconsidering. I realize that you do not like Mr. Barton in the least and I would have perhaps expected a cheap shot from him well before seeing one from you.
My next case will be a Melton or a Barton case, or both. I own several Instroke cases and they have done a fantastic job for me and if Mr. Barton's work is now at least as good as that then it's enough for me.
Good day to you sir.
"SouthWest Medicine BagCase
This case was built to match Roy Malott's prized SouthWest "Medicine Bag" cue. The cue's theme was Indian medicine bags and the case was built in the natural way that an Indian may have made it hundreds of years ago with only rudimentary tools at his disposal. The only concession to modernity was that we used our protective tubing inside to insure that the unique 1993 South West cue is protected with the level of padding and love that we are famous for.
Otherwise it is made with buffalo lace, charred deerskin, handmade leather beads, and handcrafted leather eagle feathers.
Roy wanted three eagle feathers to represent the three strengths of this project, SouthWest Cues, Indy Q Shop (Roy's business that was born in 1993), and JB Cases.
This case was done to be something like a quiver. My thought was that it should be something that an Indian would carry and that he would have his medicine bag hanging from the quiver. The medicine bag pouch is detachable.
The basic envelope style that the case is built on is the very basic way to build any kind of case - fold a piece of leather and close it on one side somehow. We chose to lace it using a primitive lacing method.
This case is not copied from any one else's work in any way. I studied quivers to get a basic feel for how they were done. The strap might just be the most comfortable strap I have ever done on a case. It's a piece of cowhide suede that I just cut a wide strip of and we laced it into the seam.
This case is quite a departure from our normal style and it made quite an impression at the 2009 International Cue Collector's show where it was displayed for the first time."
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Mr. Justis, your work is admirable. Your demeanor is usually quite nice. I have followed your issues with Mr. Barton along with everyone else. Do you honestly feel that this case copies anyone else's? I understood Mr. Brianna to be making a joke.
This is not a very nice comment to make about a fellow case maker. Would this be something you would allow in your case making guild that you proposed a while ago? In another thread a few days ago you said that the ACA handles issues among cue makers and you felt that there should be a case making guild as well.
Where do you see Mr. Barton as copying? When I look at his website I see cases that are far beyond what I see at yours and other notable case makers doing work today. Of course there is the one line that has a similar look to yours but then yours look like cases which came before you began. And then Mr. Barton makes the GTF line, of which I own several, and he gives clear tribute to the origins of that style. The vast majority of cases at Mr. Barton's website are unique and different. He may be abrasive but his work clearly stands alone among case makers for it's innovation in my opinion.
Honestly sir, I was considering contacting you to see if it would be possible to still get a Justis case to round out my collection but I am reconsidering. I realize that you do not like Mr. Barton in the least and I would have perhaps expected a cheap shot from him well before seeing one from you.
My next case will be a Melton or a Barton case, or both. I own several Instroke cases and they have done a fantastic job for me and if Mr. Barton's work is now at least as good as that then it's enough for me.
Good day to you sir.
Gentleman, Mr. Justis has every right in the world to be Pissed at John Barton, Barton has taken and used some of his ideas and designs without permission, namely the Flowers tribute cases Barton is making.
I think if you choose to not buy a case from Mr. Justis it you loss and at sometime in the future you will regret your decision
JIMO
I think if you choose to not buy a case from Mr. Justis it you loss and at sometime in the future you will regret your decision
JIMO
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Gentleman, Mr. Justis has every right in the world to be Pissed at John Barton, Barton has taken and used some of his ideas and designs without permission, namely the Flowers tribute cases Barton is making.
But maybe that doesn't matter to some of you, that is your right to an opinion. But, I would recommend buying a Melton case over a Barton case if those are your choices. Because when you buy a Melton Case you are buying a case that was made with his hands on craftsmanship, and his artistry. Not something that is assembled by some unknown individual and signed by John Barton!!!!
But maybe that doesn't matter to some either, but it certainly does for many, I kinda wonder when John built his last case, hell has anyone ever seen a case actually built by John Barton? I for one would like to see one.
But, I will say the case in question is certainly a beautiful and unique case. I also agree that the great deal of thought certainly went into making it, and I do applaud the efforts of the craftsman who made it.
JIMO
Mr. Rittel,
With all due respect sir how can you say that Mr. Barton has taken anything from Mr. Justis?
Are you saying that only Mr. Justis has the right to build cases in the same style as those made by Jay Flowers and no one else does?
Sir, I have owned three Jay Flowers cases that I purchased from Jay himself. There is no doubt in my mind that Mr. Justis' cases are clearly derived from this style.
Mr. Barton, for all of his brashness and rudeness, is very open about what he does and why he does it. He has explained onerously, loudly, and frankly more than was necessary what drives his decisions.
What I don't understand is that it seems as if you feel it's alright to make unfounded accusations in another man's thread about a completely unrelated case.
Whether Mr. Barton actually sits down and makes the cases himself or not I hope that you understand that a very great deal of the world's most desired, expensive and collectible items were not made by the person whose name is on them. My Porsche was probably not even seen by a person named Porsche before leaving the factory. I don't see you holding Mr. Justis to the same standard for the beautiful collaborative cases that he and Mr. Ross work together on.
Mr. Rittel, your animosity towards Mr. Barton is also well known to this board. Is it too much to ask you to either apply your standards equally or to not slander Mr. Barton unfairly?
Also, are you 100% certain that Mr. Melton is the only person who does any work on his cases. Not that I care because I am going to buy one even if he has a shed full of elves doing them. But my question is would your attitude change if you knew that Mr. Melton has ever had any help in building his cases?
Well, I don't know how I came to be in the role of Barton defender. I am sure he will be here soon to tell you just how he feels. I am respectfully bowing out and hope not to see such malicious hijacking of innocent threads anymore. I hope for world peace too.
This sort of thing reminds me why I tend to stay away from AZB.
Thanks to CocoboloCowboy for bringing to our attention to this cue case.
I think this is a nice looking case with great execution of a well-thought idea.
I do not see why Mr Justis can be pissed with him regarding THIS case.
If there is history between these 2 casemakers, it is best to let them settle it on their own, rather than have someone to stir sh*t and make it worse.
The thread title has John Barton's name on it and it is kind of funny to see Mr. Justis come in here to read and perhaps see what the case was about, given the history between them.
I do not think that a review of Mr Barton's case and Mr Melton's case is needed here as no one asked for a comparison between the 2 casemakers' cases.
Just My Honest Opinion.
I think this is a nice looking case with great execution of a well-thought idea.
This thread is about John Barton's SouthWest Medicine BagCase.manwon said:
I do not see why Mr Justis can be pissed with him regarding THIS case.
If there is history between these 2 casemakers, it is best to let them settle it on their own, rather than have someone to stir sh*t and make it worse.
The thread title has John Barton's name on it and it is kind of funny to see Mr. Justis come in here to read and perhaps see what the case was about, given the history between them.
I believe CocoboloCowboy's purpose is to share a nice cue case with fellow members in the forum.manwon said:But maybe that doesn't matter to some of you, that is your right to an opinion. But, I would recommend buying a Melton case over a Barton case if those are your choices. Because when you buy a Melton Case you are buying a case that was made with his hands on craftsmanship, and his artistry. Not something that is assembled by some unknown individual and signed by John Barton!!!!
I do not think that a review of Mr Barton's case and Mr Melton's case is needed here as no one asked for a comparison between the 2 casemakers' cases.
If you want to challenge Mr. John Barton to build a cue case, please do it elsewhere.manwon said:
Finally you are addressing the topic.manwon said:
Just My Honest Opinion.
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I find it amazing that there are so many opinions and responses to these 4 words. Something tells me that this thread will reach at least 8 pages without anything being resolved , oh well... :shakehead:
Thanks For Sharing
Cowboy,
Thanks for sharing these pictures of an unbelievable, stunningly gorgeous case for everyone on AZ to admire. The case was made to "go" with a particular cue that was also on display at the ICCS show in Santa Fe. And worked perfectly with the overall southwestern flavor of the event.
I saw this case at the ICCS Show, and must admit I came back around to the booth to look at it several times. It looks great in the pictures, but is simply phenomenal in person. There had to be much more time spent in the desogn layout, the material selection, ordering of materials, etc., as there was in the building of the case.
I loved it, and appreciate you taking the time to post it for others to view.
Take care,
Will Prout:thumbup2::thumbup2:
Cowboy,
Thanks for sharing these pictures of an unbelievable, stunningly gorgeous case for everyone on AZ to admire. The case was made to "go" with a particular cue that was also on display at the ICCS show in Santa Fe. And worked perfectly with the overall southwestern flavor of the event.
I saw this case at the ICCS Show, and must admit I came back around to the booth to look at it several times. It looks great in the pictures, but is simply phenomenal in person. There had to be much more time spent in the desogn layout, the material selection, ordering of materials, etc., as there was in the building of the case.
I loved it, and appreciate you taking the time to post it for others to view.
Take care,
Will Prout
:thumbup2::thumbup2:
Mr. Unknown, I have every right to say what I have said, the accusation was originally made by Mr. Justis publicly on this forum so it is Public knowledge.
Mr. Barton, for all of his brashness and rudeness, is very open about what he does and why he does it. He has explained onerously, loudly, and frankly more than was necessary what drives his decisions.
I could care less what drives his decisions, but please do not paint him as open this he certainly is not, unless confronted. If you choose to believe anything that John Barton says more power to you Sir!!
Whether Mr. Barton actually sits down and makes the cases himself or not I hope that you understand that a very great deal of the world's most desired, expensive and collectible items were not made by the person whose name is on them. My Porsche was probably not even seen by a person named Porsche before leaving the factory. I don't see you holding Mr. Justis to the same standard for the beautiful collaborative cases that he and Mr. Ross work together on.
This has noting to do with the subject or my statement, and you know that. But in all cases you get what you pay for good or bad, and any items value is based upon demand, however, works of art do not have their value judged in the same fashion as your Porsche. It, is kinda like buying a balabushka made by Adam, while it says George Balabushka on forearm that is the only thing it has in common with Georges work other than a similar design, in addition it is also priced accordingly.
Also, are you 100% certain that Mr. Melton is the only person who does any work on his cases. Not that I care because I am going to buy one even if he has a shed full of elves doing them. But my question is would your attitude change if you knew that Mr. Melton has ever had any help in building his cases?
Having some help is not the same thing as not doing any of the work your self and signing a product that you did not make. Having help could be classified as sweeping the floor in the shop, or other such duties. But, to answer your question I am 100% sure that Rusty does the carving, sewing and anything else that concerns or effects the design of his cases.
Thanks the manner in which you made your response, it is refreshing to see a civil response on this subject. As for Mr. Barton getting involved it is highly unlikely that he will since Jack has posted to this thread. I totally respect your defense of John Barton, it is what you believe to be correct, and we all have to stand up for our principles.
Thanks for your opinion, and have a nice day~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Damn Craig. I like some of your posts but sometimes you just don't let it go...
Did John screwed you in way?
What do you have against the guy?
Did John screwed you in way?
What do you have against the guy?
IMHO I was only trying to share a Unique Case, and wish it had not turned in to WW-III, and I still feel the CASE IS UNIQUE!!!!!!!:banghead:
However the accusation was refuted by Mr. Barton and proven to be false. Do you feel that it is civil to perpetuate an accusation, to repeat it although you have no proof and also have no concern in the matter?
Mr. Barton, for all of his brashness and rudeness, is very open about what he does and why he does it. He has explained onerously, loudly, and frankly more than was necessary what drives his decisions.
If you could care less about Mr. Barton then why do you choose to hijack a thread and repeat accusations that are untrue? Let me clarify that to say that after being a witness to the entire Justis/Barton debacle I find Mr. Barton to be rude, uncouth, uncivil, lacking in social skills, a poor businessman, and generally obnoxious when it comes to him talking about his business. I find he has a lot of passion for it and that manifests itself poorly in how he expresses that passion here. But I did not see any proof whatsoever that Mr. Barton copied Mr. Justis' cases. Mr. Justis did not provide any but Mr. Barton provided plenty of proof to the contrary.
What has Mr. Barton said that you have proven to be untrue? Sir, I respect very much your right to espouse your opinion, however in the interest of fairness you should perhaps consider not extending that opinion into slander, which is what you do when you publicly accuse Mr. Barton of being a liar.
Whether Mr. Barton actually sits down and makes the cases himself or not I hope that you understand that a very great deal of the world's most desired, expensive and collectible items were not made by the person whose name is on them. My Porsche was probably not even seen by a person named Porsche before leaving the factory. I don't see you holding Mr. Justis to the same standard for the beautiful collaborative cases that he and Mr. Ross work together on.
Sir, I believe from your own testimony here that you are expert enough to know the difference between a licensed brand product such as an Adams Balabushka series cue and a cue produced by George Balabushka, which as you also well know used a lot of Szamboti blanks among others. In fact, if I may nitpick for a moment, the signature on the Adams cue is not an in-common thing because George did not sign his cues.
I also wonder sir if your intention is to say that the purchasers of Mr. Barton's cases are somehow not getting what they pay for? What is it that you feel they are paying for? I see a product that is clearly defined on the first page of Mr. Barton's website as being made through a team effort. It is clear that Mr. Barton is the driving force of that team and the one who accepts full risk and responsibility for the product. I have not yet spoken with Mr. Barton but I assume that when I do he will endeavor to build me a case according to my wishes using the best of his abilities. That is what I will be paying for and frankly I feel I will get it.
Also, are you 100% certain that Mr. Melton is the only person who does any work on his cases. Not that I care because I am going to buy one even if he has a shed full of elves doing them. But my question is would your attitude change if you knew that Mr. Melton has ever had any help in building his cases?
Very well. And would your attitude change about Mr. Melton's work if he were to hire someone to help him to build his cases? Or do you think that his work only has value if only he touches the work? Also would you be so kind as to address the point I made about Mr. Justis' collaborative works with Mr. Ross? Do you feel that those works are any less valuable because Mr. Justis himself did not do all the work on them?
I am afraid I don't see where Mr. Justis' involvement has ever kept Mr. Barton from reacting. It is unusual to see that Mr. Barton is not here yet but perhaps he has finally decided that it's better for him not to be drawn into these types of arguments.
I agree with you about standing up for your principles Mr. Rittel. I don't agree however with slandering someone's name willfully through the repetition of false accusations and publicly calling them a liar without proof of such. Furthermore I understand that you respect Mr. Melton's work more because he does all the work and have no respect for Mr. Barton's work because of how he has elected to build his case using a team, but do not understand why you then do not denigrate Mr. Justis' work, nor any other builder of cases or cues who do not do all the work themselves. I think that if one is going to stand on principle then one should apply that principle equally.
Do you agree that a moral person should treat everyone equally using the same standards?