That would not work well, in a slow match with a player having a 3 game lead or so that player could purposely slow down play so that the time limit expires and he wins without needing to get to 9.
Archer got screwed
- Thread starter abbassi
- Start date
That would not work well, in a slow match with a player having a 3 game lead or so that player could purposely slow down play so that the time limit expires and he wins without needing to get to 9.
Who can spot JA the last 4??? my $$$ would be on JA on that game-all my $$$. I'd even go sell things to raise more $$$ to bet on JA getting the last 4 from anyone, I might sell myself(but I doubt Id have many customers) LOL.
They were talking about in the slowness of his play ---- not on his ability in pool.
Basavich is the worst I have ever seen.
I you want to use a shot clock.. use it.. from the beginning of the event until the end of the event in every match. and make it known well ahead of time..
if you are not going to use a clock make blatant slow play a ball in hand foul..
every match on every table should be played under the EXACT same rules
springing it on guys in the middle of a close match is wrong..
JMO
if you are not going to use a clock make blatant slow play a ball in hand foul..
every match on every table should be played under the EXACT same rules
springing it on guys in the middle of a close match is wrong..
JMO
That wouldn't work because of resources - not enough staff to sit at each table.
Apparently I'm not being clear enough. THEY WERE NOT PLAYING SLOWLY. Many of you think Johnny due to his normal slowness must have been plahying slowly. He wasn't playing slowly. This isn't an opinion. This is clear fact. The shot clock imposed on them had zero to do with whether or not they were playing slow or fast. And to be yet clear as I can possibly be, they were not playing slow.
Nobody in the arena had a clue as to why the shot clock was imposed. The only reasonable theory is that the TV / PPV crew had something going on in their production that warranted that they get the TV table on a shot clock after 12 games of play.
All of the matches started late. Johnny and Kim were a couple of games faster than at least two tables that I could see. No other table was put on the clock. This was a broadcast decision and nothing else.
THEY WERE NOT PLAYING SLOWLY.
I talked to the Jimmy Wych who was in the commentator booth. He also had no idea why the shot clock was being imposed.
Fred
Apparently you haven't seen Mike Wong.
Mike was checking the rack and didn't move for 30 - 60 seconds, almost like he fell asleep over the rack.
Fred <~~~ Wong gives Danny the Wild 8.
You would think that a HOFer, former US Open winner, player of the decade, etc etc could be given an explanation.
That is exactly what I thought when I read the post you quoted. Glad to see it isn't just me that thinks that way. Slow players can be annoying and I've been annoyed at Danny & Johnny at times but Mike Wong took me to a level of frustration that was well beyond annoying. I found myself getting angry when I watched him and even more so when I would look over & see the look on his poor opponents face. I can watch Danny & Johnny, I cannot watch Mike Wong.
baltimorebill
poolparty
Shot clock
I agree and disagree with some of the post. The shot clock should be there for everyone not just certain players. But for someone to say that Archer should not have had one is crazy. The spectaters are the people that make these tournys, if it was not for them spending money to watch and support the players it would not be as big as it is now. It is about respect for the other player and spectaters. Since Archer does not seem to care about the people that support him then he should have a clock on him even during practice. As good as he is , he does not need to take that long for a shot, period!!!!! I agree that other players are slow, bottom line , just keep the clock on them all. I paid to watch the finals and turned it off after way to many times it took so long to play one ball.
I agree and disagree with some of the post. The shot clock should be there for everyone not just certain players. But for someone to say that Archer should not have had one is crazy. The spectaters are the people that make these tournys, if it was not for them spending money to watch and support the players it would not be as big as it is now. It is about respect for the other player and spectaters. Since Archer does not seem to care about the people that support him then he should have a clock on him even during practice. As good as he is , he does not need to take that long for a shot, period!!!!! I agree that other players are slow, bottom line , just keep the clock on them all. I paid to watch the finals and turned it off after way to many times it took so long to play one ball.
Same here....
And people wonder why it won't go over on TV.
The shot clock adds excitement, as well as pressure. A good combination for viewers.
I think you're missing some very key and simple things. If Archer deserved a shot clock, then why didn't they have a shot clock from the beginning? Why didn't they have a shot clock on the other players that were much slower than Archer? Souqet was twice as slow, yet putting a shot clock on him didn't happen.
No, what you're misssing is that the shot clock wasn't put on Johnny Archer. It was put on that TV/PPV match half way through the match (it was after 12 games). I don't think people seem to grasp the difference.
But in the end, it has nothing to do with whether players should have or shouldn't have the shot clock on them. The shot clock imposition was poorly managed. That was the bottom line.
Fred
I thought that imposing the watch was totally unwarranted. As Fred has so clearly stated over and over... THEY WERE NOT PLAYING SLOWLY. The qualilty of the play seemed to me to be significantly diminished after the imposition of the clock. I don't think that Kim and Johnny were treated fairly.
I thought the finals moved along just fine. Not the best played finals I've seen but what can one expect after the week those guys had... especially Mika's week.
I thought the finals moved along just fine. Not the best played finals I've seen but what can one expect after the week those guys had... especially Mika's week.
I was there at the tournament when they went over the rules. They said they could impliment a shot clock, if they considered the match to be going to slow. The barometer they used was if ten games weren't completed, in the first hour of the match, they could impliment a shot-clock.
While I was still there, I left after Mika knocked me out early Thursday, several matches should have gone to the use of a shot-clock, according to the rules they stated. I don't believe any were. Why have rules if you're not going to enforce them?
This is probably the reason Archer and Davenport didn't like the fact they were put on the clock.
The rules should be one way or another. It shouldn't come down to how long a match is taking. The shot clock is either for every match or they live without one.
While I was still there, I left after Mika knocked me out early Thursday, several matches should have gone to the use of a shot-clock, according to the rules they stated. I don't believe any were. Why have rules if you're not going to enforce them?
This is probably the reason Archer and Davenport didn't like the fact they were put on the clock.
The rules should be one way or another. It shouldn't come down to how long a match is taking. The shot clock is either for every match or they live without one.
If the shot clock was put on to accomdate the PPV schedual, then that is just BS and a bad decision. Many matches started late, and very few who paid to watch complained. The most complains came from Bonus Balls.
I think it was a horrible decision to call the clock on the match. Normally I do not like to watch JA because he is slow, but this match he was playing pretty fast.
I think it was a horrible decision to call the clock on the match. Normally I do not like to watch JA because he is slow, but this match he was playing pretty fast.
I can remember most of the details as I was there.
They implemented a shot clock on two matches. Scott handled the shot clock for JA match while Kenny ran the shotclock for another one. A third match was left without one unless the person running it was very unobtrusive.
They tightened the matches up for that entire round. JA's match was a tad slow, but so was another one. The third match didn't run so tight so even thought less games, was done faster.
Ken Davenport was visibly PISSED. Prior to that he didnt look like he felt well anyway. JA got more pissed as he went.
Scott stated they had to put them on the clock to get the matches done in a timely fashion, but that he was giving them some slack, not sweating them if it was obvious they were about to shoot.
I'd have to say that KD actually blew a few shots because he was so mad, running to the table and just whacking a ball instead of looking for a safe. JA didnt take advantage too well at that point, and I think the anger made KD wake up and play better. Again, he appeared ill or something early on, but he replaced that with anger.
It is a hell of a thing. I saw how far down attendance was, both at the event and at Q-Masters all week. I dont begrudge them the need to make money and hold HoF dinners, but it does crimp the players. Barry even served alcohol for hours past cut off time so as to generate a little revenue.
On the players side, after the HoF dinner, SVB was STARTING a match at 2:45am, and had to be back at 11.
There is no perfect solution, and it seemed to TDs tried to implement a shotclock in as unobtrusive a manner as possible, but maybe a better solution would have been to just tell them to hurry it up at the very beginning, knowing JA's reputation. JA was not playing his normal slow pace, but he does have a reputation. I prefer not to watch his matches because of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and that guy Wong was stupid slow. I would have preferred to chew glass than watch that. Chohan was in some action (10 ball) later on but I dont have all the details. Hopefully it made his trip worthwhile.
They implemented a shot clock on two matches. Scott handled the shot clock for JA match while Kenny ran the shotclock for another one. A third match was left without one unless the person running it was very unobtrusive.
They tightened the matches up for that entire round. JA's match was a tad slow, but so was another one. The third match didn't run so tight so even thought less games, was done faster.
Ken Davenport was visibly PISSED. Prior to that he didnt look like he felt well anyway. JA got more pissed as he went.
Scott stated they had to put them on the clock to get the matches done in a timely fashion, but that he was giving them some slack, not sweating them if it was obvious they were about to shoot.
I'd have to say that KD actually blew a few shots because he was so mad, running to the table and just whacking a ball instead of looking for a safe. JA didnt take advantage too well at that point, and I think the anger made KD wake up and play better. Again, he appeared ill or something early on, but he replaced that with anger.
It is a hell of a thing. I saw how far down attendance was, both at the event and at Q-Masters all week. I dont begrudge them the need to make money and hold HoF dinners, but it does crimp the players. Barry even served alcohol for hours past cut off time so as to generate a little revenue.
On the players side, after the HoF dinner, SVB was STARTING a match at 2:45am, and had to be back at 11.
There is no perfect solution, and it seemed to TDs tried to implement a shotclock in as unobtrusive a manner as possible, but maybe a better solution would have been to just tell them to hurry it up at the very beginning, knowing JA's reputation. JA was not playing his normal slow pace, but he does have a reputation. I prefer not to watch his matches because of it.
Just my 2 cents.
Oh, and that guy Wong was stupid slow. I would have preferred to chew glass than watch that. Chohan was in some action (10 ball) later on but I dont have all the details. Hopefully it made his trip worthwhile.
People say the pace was not slow, what was the average time between shots before the shot clock? What was happening on the other table really doesn't matter.
In 9 ball, if you can't take a shot in 30 seconds, thats just sad. Granted some take a little longer, hence the extentsion, but most the time 30 seconds is plenty of time especially at that level.
Also, if it is allowed by the rules to use a shot clock after a match starts, then both players should have known the rules about this instead it seems they didn't. Shame on any one that does not the complete rules of the game/tourney they are playing.
Archer screwed himself. Also,It looks as if both player feel they were above the rules.
In 9 ball, if you can't take a shot in 30 seconds, thats just sad. Granted some take a little longer, hence the extentsion, but most the time 30 seconds is plenty of time especially at that level.
Also, if it is allowed by the rules to use a shot clock after a match starts, then both players should have known the rules about this instead it seems they didn't. Shame on any one that does not the complete rules of the game/tourney they are playing.
Archer screwed himself. Also,It looks as if both player feel they were above the rules.
How can you say they feel they are above the rules?
Ralf Soquet took 5 minutes looking at easy, easy kick.
This is the US open, so instead of finishing at 10 pm they would have finished at 10:05 PM. Big deal.
They owe him an apology or explanation. They gave the European players all the leeway.
:wink:
Slow play or not, I don't see how Archer got screwed. The shot clock is a factor that both players have to adjust to and live with.