A question
- Thread starter Gmanpoke
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Garbage is what I say to that....if thats why people play then they are missing out. Thats like saying musicians only play the guitar for their $$$ and ego, thats pretty judgemental, short sighted, and small/close minded.
This is why I play, its my art...how i most like to express my soul, those that know me best know my running and pool are my best forms of expression. Of all games it is my inner childs favorite also, just something about how those balls roll around...don't need anything else when I'm on a table...and I been on a table for a long time for my age.
And this is how I feel about it,
read the quote below.....
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I don't play for cash, the guys around here stopped betting me years ago. I let the ego thing go a long time ago. It is hard for me to nail down what motivates me now, I think Greyghost said it best it is how I express myself. It is a show of my intelligence, physical ability and my creativeness. I also play for the unslumps.... you know the times when you play like Johnny A or Shane V, they still come around for me now and then.
http://einstein-nine.com/
http://einstein-nine.com/
I'm not saying there aren't more reasons to play, this is just what the discussion was at the pool hall.
Ghost, I read the quote and I'm not trying to pick a fight but when I read a quote "I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone shoot like that before" sounds kinda like ego to me. But, I could be wrong.
Ghost, I read the quote and I'm not trying to pick a fight but when I read a quote "I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone shoot like that before" sounds kinda like ego to me. But, I could be wrong.
a really interesting thread...
The answers so far have been thought provoking. Reading them, I'm reminded of some old psychology classes where I first heard of Maslow's needs hierarchy.
For those unfamiliar, Abraham Maslow became renowned for his theory that people are motivated by a hierarchy of needs. Maslow described five tiers of needs beginning at the lower end with survival and security (basically food, shelter, and a reasonable expectation of safety). Once these needs are satisfied, people are free to satisfy their "higher" needs for social interaction, personal esteem, and self-actualization. Maslow theorized that people were not free to satisfy their higher needs until their lower needs had been met. (Although Maslow's theories are frequently cited, they remain just that--theories--as they have never been empirically validated.)
Very few of us play at a level where cash is a significant motivator. Many play for the game's social aspects-- particularly league players. At this level of motivation, it's not necessary to play very well. (In fact, it can be a hinderance, as casual players are often put off by those who take the game "too seriously.")
Not surprisingly, the dedicated players who typically frequent this forum are motivated by the higher level motivators of esteem and self-actualization. "Esteem" in this context closely relates to the "ego" motivation cited by the OP. Several of the respondents so far have admitted that ego does (or once did) act as a significant motivator.
Most of the respondents, though, are clearly working at the highest level of motivation, self-actualization. I can remember several discussions of what exactly Maslow meant by this term, but I don't think it can be understood any better than by simply reading what Greyghost wrote in his answer.
As for myself, I'm probably at this motivational level as well, although I don't play nearly as well as most here. (Never picked up a cue until I was in my 40's.) I enjoy learning and working on technique such that I can hit some of the advanced shots that the top players play, even if I'll never "own" them.
Let's keep this thread going... its been interesting reading so far.
The answers so far have been thought provoking. Reading them, I'm reminded of some old psychology classes where I first heard of Maslow's needs hierarchy.
For those unfamiliar, Abraham Maslow became renowned for his theory that people are motivated by a hierarchy of needs. Maslow described five tiers of needs beginning at the lower end with survival and security (basically food, shelter, and a reasonable expectation of safety). Once these needs are satisfied, people are free to satisfy their "higher" needs for social interaction, personal esteem, and self-actualization. Maslow theorized that people were not free to satisfy their higher needs until their lower needs had been met. (Although Maslow's theories are frequently cited, they remain just that--theories--as they have never been empirically validated.)
Very few of us play at a level where cash is a significant motivator. Many play for the game's social aspects-- particularly league players. At this level of motivation, it's not necessary to play very well. (In fact, it can be a hinderance, as casual players are often put off by those who take the game "too seriously.")
Not surprisingly, the dedicated players who typically frequent this forum are motivated by the higher level motivators of esteem and self-actualization. "Esteem" in this context closely relates to the "ego" motivation cited by the OP. Several of the respondents so far have admitted that ego does (or once did) act as a significant motivator.
Most of the respondents, though, are clearly working at the highest level of motivation, self-actualization. I can remember several discussions of what exactly Maslow meant by this term, but I don't think it can be understood any better than by simply reading what Greyghost wrote in his answer.
As for myself, I'm probably at this motivational level as well, although I don't play nearly as well as most here. (Never picked up a cue until I was in my 40's.) I enjoy learning and working on technique such that I can hit some of the advanced shots that the top players play, even if I'll never "own" them.
Let's keep this thread going... its been interesting reading so far.
I "guess" EGO can be related to the reason I play, but not exactly...
I play for the competition. If I play well and lose I am in no way dejected though, so that's where the ego doesn't play in to it. If I play badly and win, well, I really didn't get my competition fix, so I'm probably not feeling as good as if I'd lost and played well. Learning and getting better is a huge motivator in any competitive endeavor for me. Pool is not even close to being my "best game", but I believe my attitude would be the same even if it were.
Don't get me wrong now, I do like winning, or beating a competitor, but it's much more enjoyable to me to compete with someone ABOVE my skill level. BTW, I don't like spots or handicaps to push my play...giving someone games or balls or strokes (in golf) to bring them UP to my level or above isn't quite the same to me as playing someone even (skill wise) or better than I am....
Like I said, EGO?? Maybe, but probably not in the same way it's usually read.
EDIT: Manwons statement is also part of it for me as well.
I play for the competition. If I play well and lose I am in no way dejected though, so that's where the ego doesn't play in to it. If I play badly and win, well, I really didn't get my competition fix, so I'm probably not feeling as good as if I'd lost and played well. Learning and getting better is a huge motivator in any competitive endeavor for me. Pool is not even close to being my "best game", but I believe my attitude would be the same even if it were.
Don't get me wrong now, I do like winning, or beating a competitor, but it's much more enjoyable to me to compete with someone ABOVE my skill level. BTW, I don't like spots or handicaps to push my play...giving someone games or balls or strokes (in golf) to bring them UP to my level or above isn't quite the same to me as playing someone even (skill wise) or better than I am....
Like I said, EGO?? Maybe, but probably not in the same way it's usually read.
EDIT: Manwons statement is also part of it for me as well.
i play for the opportunity to compete. i will gamble a little sometimes and i play in my apa league, but in the end i play to compete and i am always striving to improve my game.
I play for the enjoyment and beauty of the game...and to share it with others! :grin:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
y play?
Good post ChazL.
During 50 years of pool I've humiliated myself so many times that ego is no longer a factor. ( Well, maybe a little) I never bet big .Just happy to pay my bar tab for the night. But here I sit. 5:11AM and I'm bullcrapping about pool with people I never met.
And I'll be at the pool room at 10:00 this morning Can't wait. Go figure.
Good post ChazL.
During 50 years of pool I've humiliated myself so many times that ego is no longer a factor. ( Well, maybe a little) I never bet big .Just happy to pay my bar tab for the night. But here I sit. 5:11AM and I'm bullcrapping about pool with people I never met.
And I'll be at the pool room at 10:00 this morning Can't wait. Go figure.
Like Scott Lee I play for the enjoyment and beauty of the game. Includes, your opponent, your cue, the table, balls, the atmosphere. When they are all to my liking the game is most enjoyable. Some of the things mentioned above vary at times. But having a majority of them present is pure joy. Watching great players match up is another joy of pool.
We're all hooked on this game. I was never in it for the money, I bet low if at all. We all take pride in winning but being a gracious loser is also important in my book.
Good thread..........Paul
We're all hooked on this game. I was never in it for the money, I bet low if at all. We all take pride in winning but being a gracious loser is also important in my book.
Good thread..........Paul
I tend to agree with GreyGhost and Scott Lee. There comes a point in time where the table affords us many similar shots,and the redundancy,while challenging,doesn't afford the opportunity for creativity. As I have told my young paduwon,Run the Century,"I may not be the Best Player you have ever seen,but I Play the Most Beautifully you have ever seen." To which his reply is....Look at the way he moves,....like a dancer.":grin: My Quote from the 80's..." Only Actors have bigger Ego's than Pool Players."
How's that ego when you want someone to see something in a new light? Hell I stop and think the same thing when something fantastic happens, when I accomplish something amazing at the table, I'm usually much more excited and intrigued than anyone watching unless its little kids b/c they flip like no other. I want to make something beautiful, I don't want them to stop and say man that was the most sorry looking display of shooting I've ever seen lol.
But I see where you come from b/c its a fine line, kind of like the fine line between being conceded and being confident. Sometimes its hard for people to tell the differience.
You put me in front of a group of kids, and i'll shoot till the sun comes up just trying to get them excited about it....and they do get excited. I'm a completely different person around children they are the best audience because they appreciate simple beauty in things....something that pool/billiards has by leaps and bounds over many other activities.
Seriously it would be a dream if there were more afterschool programs and at the boys and girls clubs, and be able to travel just giving exhibitions for all those kids. Kid's think pool is magic or something.....and maybe they're on to something that we forgot by getting old.
Grey GHost
For me, it's Ego ... I want to be the "top dog".
This really sums it up for me.
It's the challenge to me that brings me back to it. That and the feeling that comes with deadstroke.. it's a drug.
I do not need the money and I don’t even gamble very often. The ego thing is met in many others ways. In fact I have been successful in several areas and there are few challenges left that are needed to find out who I am.
Which brings me to the real reasons for playing pool; it is all about the challenges and there are several of them. First are the physical and mental aspects. It matters little how much I know about the mind and how it works. When playing pool it is about coordinating many aspects of the physical and mental. Talk all you want and when the talking is done it is about how well you play against yourself and the other guy. The requirements for excellent play are awesome and provide a true challenge for self mastery. Put up or shut up and there is a real appeal to that.
In the pool hall, a pool league or at a tournament I am just another one of the guys. Nobody defers because I am Dr, Professor, boss or any of the other titles I have held. I grew up on the streets in foster homes, orphanages and with a difficult childhood. No matter how much I have succeeded in other areas of life, my first love is the streets and the culture in which you are accepted for what you do, not what you say. Street culture and the whole culture of the pool player’s mentality with its sharks, nits and everyone in between is where I am comfortable. I have been fortunate in having passed through many sub-cultures in our civilization and when it is all said and done there is an honesty about how life is lived that can only be found on the streets and in the pool hall. In the pool players world I am just another Joe and I like that.
Which brings me to the real reasons for playing pool; it is all about the challenges and there are several of them. First are the physical and mental aspects. It matters little how much I know about the mind and how it works. When playing pool it is about coordinating many aspects of the physical and mental. Talk all you want and when the talking is done it is about how well you play against yourself and the other guy. The requirements for excellent play are awesome and provide a true challenge for self mastery. Put up or shut up and there is a real appeal to that.
In the pool hall, a pool league or at a tournament I am just another one of the guys. Nobody defers because I am Dr, Professor, boss or any of the other titles I have held. I grew up on the streets in foster homes, orphanages and with a difficult childhood. No matter how much I have succeeded in other areas of life, my first love is the streets and the culture in which you are accepted for what you do, not what you say. Street culture and the whole culture of the pool player’s mentality with its sharks, nits and everyone in between is where I am comfortable. I have been fortunate in having passed through many sub-cultures in our civilization and when it is all said and done there is an honesty about how life is lived that can only be found on the streets and in the pool hall. In the pool players world I am just another Joe and I like that.