What are your expectations as a buyer when it comes to a refund? Would you consider ever doing business with a maker or seller that does not stand behind their product, or offer a guarantee of satisfaction?
Refunds-Moral and Ethical Business Practices
- Thread starter hangemhigh
- Start date
Had this conversation today
As a business person I stand behind my products and my people to fairly ridiculous lengths. Nine times out of ten I stand behind my products even when I shouldn't. The tenth time is when somebody has thoroughly abused the product and then comes to me with a chip on their shoulder when they walk through the door.
As a buyer I expect what I consider reasonable when the shoe is on the other foot. An example: A multi-hundred thousand dollar machine(not mine) had multiple moving components. Only when everything was in exactly the wrong place would two shrouds interfere with each other. This is on the far side of the machine from the operator, no way for them to see what is happening. Corners barely catch but since all components are moving under power what happens next isn't pretty! Took three years of light use for it to happen. The machine isn't under warranty or a service contract at this point. I still say a smart manufacturer comes out and replaces the shrouds with some that aren't damaged and won't interfere. No question I would.
An old story about Rolls Royce: A man was bouncing one around the roads of Africa in the 60's. The roads aren't fit for trucks much less cars and the man breaks a coil spring. He calls Rolls and tells them the problem. They fly a spring and a tech with tools to Africa and get him going. After a few months without receiving a bill the man calls Rolls to see what he owes.
"Sorry sir, you must be mistaken. Rolls Royces don't break springs."
Hu
As a business person I stand behind my products and my people to fairly ridiculous lengths. Nine times out of ten I stand behind my products even when I shouldn't. The tenth time is when somebody has thoroughly abused the product and then comes to me with a chip on their shoulder when they walk through the door.
As a buyer I expect what I consider reasonable when the shoe is on the other foot. An example: A multi-hundred thousand dollar machine(not mine) had multiple moving components. Only when everything was in exactly the wrong place would two shrouds interfere with each other. This is on the far side of the machine from the operator, no way for them to see what is happening. Corners barely catch but since all components are moving under power what happens next isn't pretty! Took three years of light use for it to happen. The machine isn't under warranty or a service contract at this point. I still say a smart manufacturer comes out and replaces the shrouds with some that aren't damaged and won't interfere. No question I would.
An old story about Rolls Royce: A man was bouncing one around the roads of Africa in the 60's. The roads aren't fit for trucks much less cars and the man breaks a coil spring. He calls Rolls and tells them the problem. They fly a spring and a tech with tools to Africa and get him going. After a few months without receiving a bill the man calls Rolls to see what he owes.
"Sorry sir, you must be mistaken. Rolls Royces don't break springs."
Hu
No. I take good care of my stuff. If I have a problem I expect fair treatment. I don't expect to be handed the moon & the stars for no reason, but if someone breaks the faith - it's over. If I was proud enough of them to buy their work, and they're not proud enough to stand behind it... I made the wrong decision...and so did they.
I can only speak for myself but, I generally will give a customer a full refund on any cue I built if the customer is not happy in the first 30 days. In addition any cue I have built and sold has a life time guaranty to the original buyer, except for obvious abuse. I know that the way I do and have done business is not the norm, however, I for one do not want anyone who does business with me to be unhappy with the transaction. I can always resell anything I build and that is easier than any hard feeling that may result from poor customer service.
As a buyer, I would hope that others would treat me the same way, even though I know this is not the case.
Take Care Tommy
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Love the RR story.
The old adage......"do unto others......" seems applicable here. Yes....there are those that will abuse the "customer is always right" theme, but in todays economy, it would seem prudent to go to most any length to insure satisfaction. In the world of pool....perhaps more so than other industrys.......word of mouth advertising is still tops.
This is the same thing I do. I will allow a person to play with the cue for a couple of days and if he doesn't like it he can return it (for any reason).
Chris, excellent points, especially your statement "I don't expect to be handed the moon & the stars for no reason, but if someone breaks the faith - it's over."
Craig, no one could ask for more.
I get the feeling when someone will not stand behind their work, or force an unwanted item on their customer that they are not from your school of thought, of have any confidence in their work whatsoever.
We give exchange privileges towards all cues except Clearance cues. We used to give full cash refunds. But we were known to have very lenient refund policies and then became the "borrowing" store. Guys would come in and buy a $300 cue, play league all night and come in the next day wanting their money back. They would do it over and over. Not just a few guys...but dozens. Finally we had enough of people returning used cues that we had to discount before we stopped that policy. For retailers to have a return policy that is too lenient encourages the fraudsters to come out of the woodwork. Guys will buy a cue, come in the store when a different employee is working. Return the cue and we find out later they KEPT the straight shaft and exchanged it for a crooked one. We had this issue night and day with the original Meucci Sneaky Pete cues. Now we have to scrutinize every return because such a huge percentage someone is trying to pull something. Sad commentary on the general public.
Refunding:
Well, I will refund if:
1. Product is not what I described or crucial element was not mentioned or incorrect. Let's say it's a 12.05mm shaft and I put 12.5, then yes, there is a significant differenct to the feel. But if it is 12.45 and I put 12.5, then I use tolerance rule. +/-. Same thing goes with item's appearance, 9/10 can be subjective as 8/10. So, I do give refund if the tolerance is over my standard limit or reasonable difference in my mind.
2. I don't refund if the customer isn't happy or has buyers remorse. If it's used, then expect a used product and expect the unexpected. If it is a brand new item, I understand the Mint/new quality, because after all one buys new for the purpose of excreting money to have that "new" quality so they should get it.
3. Refunding Shipping cost is 9/10 not available. UNLESS, it was a total failure of description or totally inccorect details.
4. If the product only needs minimal work, or a piece of attachment such as a Tip, or missing a small but very easliy replaceable part, I say no. Just take the time to fix the issue since you've already got a great deal. Buying used items, is cheaper and thus, you can be creative and restore it back to brand new. Buying a cue like buying a car, you can accessorize, and detail it, and baby it to a certain extent. In addition, there is a difference between buying a Ferrari and a Honda, as well as a Players cue vs. a custom Bushka. If you buy a Ferrari or a real Bushka, you expect it to be 100% or 99.9% of what you expected with the deal. The same AS-Is rule applies, unless I utterly Lied to you. "Oh, salvaged due to theft" (99.9% of the time=Lies), "It has a rebuilt Engine (99.9% lies." or "Oh, this was the original Meucci that was used in the Color of Money (TRUE! LOL)" Unless, this happens, no refund.
Well, I will refund if:
1. Product is not what I described or crucial element was not mentioned or incorrect. Let's say it's a 12.05mm shaft and I put 12.5, then yes, there is a significant differenct to the feel. But if it is 12.45 and I put 12.5, then I use tolerance rule. +/-. Same thing goes with item's appearance, 9/10 can be subjective as 8/10. So, I do give refund if the tolerance is over my standard limit or reasonable difference in my mind.
2. I don't refund if the customer isn't happy or has buyers remorse. If it's used, then expect a used product and expect the unexpected. If it is a brand new item, I understand the Mint/new quality, because after all one buys new for the purpose of excreting money to have that "new" quality so they should get it.
3. Refunding Shipping cost is 9/10 not available. UNLESS, it was a total failure of description or totally inccorect details.
4. If the product only needs minimal work, or a piece of attachment such as a Tip, or missing a small but very easliy replaceable part, I say no. Just take the time to fix the issue since you've already got a great deal. Buying used items, is cheaper and thus, you can be creative and restore it back to brand new. Buying a cue like buying a car, you can accessorize, and detail it, and baby it to a certain extent. In addition, there is a difference between buying a Ferrari and a Honda, as well as a Players cue vs. a custom Bushka. If you buy a Ferrari or a real Bushka, you expect it to be 100% or 99.9% of what you expected with the deal. The same AS-Is rule applies, unless I utterly Lied to you. "Oh, salvaged due to theft" (99.9% of the time=Lies), "It has a rebuilt Engine (99.9% lies." or "Oh, this was the original Meucci that was used in the Color of Money (TRUE! LOL)" Unless, this happens, no refund.
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HEH
I make my meager living selling "mail order", by that I mean that my customers rarely have had the opportunity to inspect the product personally before they buy it. In any case like this, the buyer is relying on the seller to have described it fairly or accurately. Terms that describe condition and quality are subjective by their very nature and if I describe something as "excellent" and my buyer doesn't agree there is absolutely no sense in arguing over who's idea of excellent is correct, I just give the buyer all their money back and pay the shipping too and move on to the next one.
If you sell someone something sight unseen and they are unhappy with what they receive and you won't refund, you might as well be saying, "sorry but I pulled a fast one on you and I don't think I will be able to get the same money for the item if I have to resell so I'm going to stick you with it".
I sell in a very competitive environment and I've found over the years that I will yield a higher price for the same item against selling competition that doesn't offer a satisfaction guarantee. The higher the price or value of the item, the greater this delta will be. So offering a satisfaction guarantee is not only good business karmically, but also financially, plus there's way less arguing and bad feelings for everybody involved.
Kevin
I make my meager living selling "mail order", by that I mean that my customers rarely have had the opportunity to inspect the product personally before they buy it. In any case like this, the buyer is relying on the seller to have described it fairly or accurately. Terms that describe condition and quality are subjective by their very nature and if I describe something as "excellent" and my buyer doesn't agree there is absolutely no sense in arguing over who's idea of excellent is correct, I just give the buyer all their money back and pay the shipping too and move on to the next one.
If you sell someone something sight unseen and they are unhappy with what they receive and you won't refund, you might as well be saying, "sorry but I pulled a fast one on you and I don't think I will be able to get the same money for the item if I have to resell so I'm going to stick you with it".
I sell in a very competitive environment and I've found over the years that I will yield a higher price for the same item against selling competition that doesn't offer a satisfaction guarantee. The higher the price or value of the item, the greater this delta will be. So offering a satisfaction guarantee is not only good business karmically, but also financially, plus there's way less arguing and bad feelings for everybody involved.
Kevin
Moreover,
I think it makes the difference when someone isnt sure. I tell them, at worst it will cost them the shipping cost (to and from). I tell them to try and see.
99 times out of 100 they will agree once they get it.
I think I have taken only a couple items back. No problems.
This is especially true on shafts and playablity of cues.
Ken
I think it makes the difference when someone isnt sure. I tell them, at worst it will cost them the shipping cost (to and from). I tell them to try and see.
99 times out of 100 they will agree once they get it.
I think I have taken only a couple items back. No problems.
This is especially true on shafts and playablity of cues.
Ken