Why do certain pros like prefer Gold Crowns?

branpureza

Ginacue
Silver Member
I've heard Raj Hundal be pretty vocal about Diamonds being inferior to Brunswicks.... especially in this past year's Open. I think he said something to the effect of not liking the Diamonds and wishing they were playing on Brunswicks which he referred to as "real tables."

Anyone have any input on this? I think it might have something to do with the rails but I'm just curious...
 
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I've heard Raj Hundal be pretty vocal about Diamonds being inferior to Brunswicks.... especially in this past year's Open. I think he said something to the effect of not liking the Diamonds and wishing they were playing on Brunswicks which he referred to as "real tables."

Anyone have any input on this? I think it might have something to do with the rails but I'm just curious...
I do think it is the rails. I personally like a Gold Crown table when it is setup tight and right. I have heard people say a Diamond plays tougher well yes pocket shelves are deeper so you can hit a ball good and get robbed.

One more thing about the tables is if a ball touches a rail it seems to me that it will push off the rail since they are springier then the Gold Crowns, not sure if there is a way to test my theory on it though. One thing I can say is these guys are the minority as I am, would I own a Diamond, sure I would as soon as they take payments. :grin:
 
Diamond is a tougher table. Between the rails and the pocket shelves.....don't think for a minute on a pro-cut pocket you can bump that rail on the way in and have the ball drop....now on a shimmed GC you can still hit the rail up to 2" away from the pocket and make the ball.

I can't say this is why they prefer the Brunswick, maybe they just like the history.
 
Uncertain, one of the biggest complaints I have with Gold Crowns are the pocket having the metal and plastic built up over the rail that gets in the way of cueing up on some shots whereas Diamond thought about that when desinging their table and have all of the pocket at or below the level of the rail so that cueing out of a pocket does not pose the same issues.

I have seen on Gold Crown 5's it looks like they might have reduced the metal jutting out around the pocket to a large degree over my GC3, that one main flaw of my gold crown is the only thing Diamond really had on it and brings the battle between the two tables alot closer IMO.

If you get a nice Tournament Edition Gold Crown 5 with 4.5 inch pockets and a Diamond Pro or Pro-Am I would be interested to see which people preffer after an hour of play on each.

Diamond tables are very nice but they play... "different". It is hard to describe but nothing plays like a Diamond, while a Gold Crown plays like most other tables out there, only better.

I do find the ball pocketing on a gold crown to be more consistent between "down the rail" shots and shots more from the center of the table. A Diamond actually gets harder as the object ball is closer to the rail to a far greater degree then on a gold crown and that is something I don't really like. It is also a complait I have about alot of Dufferin tables, the pockets are gigantic from the center of the table and shrink dramatically as the objectball nears the rail. I feel a pool table should be consistent in this aspect and that all shots should be relatively close to the same difficulty regardless of distance from the rail into a corner pocket, all other things being equal (distance to the pocket, angle, speed hit).
 
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I've heard Raj Hundal be pretty vocal about Diamonds being inferior to Brunswicks.... especially in this past year's Open. I think he said something to the effect of not liking the Diamonds and wishing they were playing on Brunswicks which he referred to as "real tables."

Anyone have any input on this? I think it might have something to do with the rails but I'm just curious...

i bet he just doesn't like that the rails are more springy and the pockets are cut at different angles. he always seemed like an arrogant whiney kind of guy to me
 
Perhaps it's because Brunswick pockets can be cheated in more ways?

Just guessing here...

However, I heard Glenn Atwell say he prefers Brunswick to Diamond...and I never heard anybody say he couldn't roll 'em straight.
 
I don't think this has anything to do with pocketing balls. Forever, there have been quad shimmed Goldcrowns in tons of rooms. Especially 1 pocket rooms. There is no way a standard Diamond pocket is going to play tougher than a quad shimmed GC.

The people who say they prefer GC's over Diamonds do so because the rails bounce differently on POSITION shots. It has nothing to do with pocketing balls.

This is a function of the rubber used by Diamond. There are MANY players who prefer the Diamond rubber, but there are also MANY who prefer the Brunswick rubber (I'm one of them). Also, the Brunswick rubber plays like any other brand of table (quality tables, not Sears tables). Diamond is the only quality table company with a rail rubber that plays differently than what everyone has known for the past 50 years.

You can add Archer and Gabe Owen to the list of Pro's who have said they prefer Brunswicks. In the 1 hole TAR action challenge between Gabe and Cochan you can hear the two players argue in the background about diamond vs GC, and Gabe say something to the affect that Diamond rails are way to fast and bouncy.
 
I prefer Diamond for many reasons but the biggest is that they are made in the USA!!!

Greg was a very good player that wanted to make changes to what he thought was going to make the game better. I think that we can all agree that he has made some progress towards his goal. The durability of them alone...steal and hard rails I don't like all the advertisment but hey it is that time in history. I think that as the years go by you will see changes made to the Diamond tables. I think they will always try to improve.

This brings me to my point the tables mabe by Brunswick in 1900 were the best ever built or at least the best I have ever played on (the ten foot ones) I can say without a doubt that the quality of their tables have went straight downhill. Even as close as in the 60's they built better stuff. It's still good, but not like they could build, or have built, and not on USA soil...I love them both I love every table that has ever been built...

Brunwicks are great, and Diamonds are too.
 
The people who say they prefer GC's over Diamonds do so because the rails bounce differently on POSITION shots. It has nothing to do with pocketing balls.

It is a big part of why I preffer a GC. It is like I said above, a pocket should play consistently. Diamonds are inconsistent on ball pocketing in the corners dependent on object ball distance from the rail. The pockets on a Diamond are actually pretty generous on balls positioned in the center of the table off the rails, and on the shots on the rail one must suddenly aim at the outside horn and with a slower speed. Unless you are forced to hit it hard for shape and then you better hit an accurate pot that would go in on a snooker pocket from that same angle. Pockets should not actually encourage rolling balls in because they spit out everything but a perfectly hit ball down the rail if it has any pace at all.

Diamonds in this way play more like a 2-shot table, or any table that has round snooker cut pockets. The shots become more difficult to make down the rail and this actually affects strategy and the way you need to hit the ball. I have played great on Diamond tables but it took a whole new strategy and reworking of my game. There are "tricks" to making shots on a Diamond, while the Gold Crown really has no "tricks", it is fairly neutral to speed you hit the ball and realtively neutral to cheating the pocket to either side. The Diamond takes one side of cheating a pocket clear out of the equation on a ball near the rail, you spend all day cinching balls instead of stroking them. You start focusing alot more on angles you leave yourself and shelf the draw, follow, and cueball moves you might use the closer and closer that object ball gets to a rail.

On a Gold Crown you still have the same margin of error to a corner no matter how close to the rail the object ball is. A straight shot down the rail with the cueball 2 feet from the object ball and the object ball 3 feet from the corner is about as tough as a straight shot on a object ball in the center of the table with the cueball 2 feet away from the object ball and the object ball 3 feet from the corner.
 
Diamond rails are just bananas.

Personally, i have played on Diamond tables where i went to cut a ball in off the bottom rail at a slight angle to come to the middle of the table, only to have the cueball fly up in the air, and sometimes off the table.

I know plenty of people (including myself) who think that the cue ball is going at a faster speed after a 2 rails and out type of shot, and i also know the wannabee physicists who say it's impossible for a ball to exit the rail at a faster speed then it had going in.

My only response to that would be that somehow, the rubber maintaining the speed of the cue ball exactly, or the rubber has some potential energy that hasn't been taken into account that no one has bothered to measure scientifically.

Diamonds are great tables, but the rails suck
 
I've heard Raj Hundal be pretty vocal about Diamonds being inferior to Brunswicks.... especially in this past year's Open. I think he said something to the effect of not liking the Diamonds and wishing they were playing on Brunswicks which he referred to as "real tables."

Anyone have any input on this? I think it might have something to do with the rails but I'm just curious...

Raj is vocal about everything - that's just his persona. It could be lights one day. It's never his fault for loosing a match. He posted that comment right after he lost the first round...

He also said that 'I can't wait to get rich (being a pool player or pool promoter) so I can buy out the Diamond Company so I can close it down' hmmm... not very logical or even possible is it?!?

Can you take Corey Deuel's name off your subject line? I saw Corey Deuel wearing a Diamond Patch for Mosconi Cup and he IS Diamond player.

S.
 
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For a non- technical answer, after his big televised 147 snooker break Steve Davis was interviewed and asked about table/ rail/ pocket preferences. I thought he gave a surprisingly honest answer:

(paraphrased) It really comes down to the table you're most at home with- the one you first started playing on.

I see/ feel the differences, and it's really nice to hear them clearly explained, but in the end- it might all just come down to the one we each first started learning on.
 
I've played on a ton of gold crowns with gaffy corner pockets. I've never played on a pro cut diamond with gaffy pockets. If you hit a ball hard down the rail on a diamond it will go if you hit it good, alot of gold crowns wont except it if you hit it good (in my experiences)

I doubt corey deuel prefers gold crowns. Gold crowns don't require you to play shape as good, I think anyway.
 
I've played on a ton of gold crowns with gaffy corner pockets. I've never played on a pro cut diamond with gaffy pockets. If you hit a ball hard down the rail on a diamond it will go if you hit it good, alot of gold crowns wont except it if you hit it good (in my experiences)


Yeah, I've played on more goofy tightened-up Gold Crowns than I have Diamonds. They seem more consistent to me anyway...

One thing I have noticed about a Diamond is that I'm not as confident banking on them as I am on a Brunswick... maybe it's all in my head though.

I've always preferred Diamond to Brunswicks.. I love tight pockets and they just seem to play better to me.

I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Corey liked Brunswicks better so that's why I asked about him in particular...
 
The Brunswick table plays fair...Period.

its not gonna steal from you...youll never miss a shot that you thought should have went in, and not beable to figure why it didnt go.

the rails act as expected and not sort of Jumpy like Diamond seems to act. diamonds side pockets are buckets, and suck up anything close to them while there corners rob you


if you took the good things about Brunswick and the good things about Diamond and put them into one table it would be a damn neer perfect table IMO....

i dont mind tuff pockets for the most part...but the diamond tables will Mug you from time to time...and the speed off the rails on them is more turbocharged than anyother table

people in the thread are right diamond tables play "different"

id say Brunswick tables play "fair"

thats why i prefer the brunswick.

brunswick is like a caddilac (smooth and comfy) and diamond is like a corvette (fast but has a odd temper)
 
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Well, it is important if you were being sponsored by Diamond, wouldn't it?

S

I sent a request to azhousepro to edit it.

I am sorry for any harm my post might have caused anyone. I will never assume Corey Deuel likes any pool table in particular.

Please forgive my misdeeds.



Anyway, thanks for the pm's guys... that's exactly what I figured. :wink:

Diamond Pool Tables Are The Best In The World!!!
 
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So much depends on set up. This is especially true when trying to relate to experience with GC's because there are so many out there and they have been tweaked and shimmed and lord knows what else, often by hacks that just funky up the performance and true character of the table.

This is especially true in pool halls where cost enters into it. When you are tightening the pockets on 30 tables it is way more cost effective to just shim the snot out of them than do it properly. Also, because GC's have been around so long the rails have been replaced over and over and again, usually by a hack since there are relatively few really good mechanics compared to the total population of guys that work on tables (especially the guys that work cheap).

Most people that have shot on a table that played funny don't really look closely at pocket angles, consistency of size from pocket to pocket, rail height etc. So they just assume that GC's aren't consistent. Well, they aren't after they've been hacked on umpteen times by various pseudo-professional mechanics.

I don't think Diamonds, at least the pro-cut Diamonds, get hacked on nearly as much because with the deep shelf you don't really want the pockets any tighter than the 4.5" that come from the factory. Plus there isn't this huge population of them that have filled pool halls for the last 50 years.

The deep shelves like on on the Diamonds are a matter of taste. Yes, that is one way to make a table play tougher but so is 3.5" pockets and I don't think anyone would say that is the way a table should be set up. It has pros and cons. I don't care to have a shot get spit out or hung up if it was struck accurately enough to go in the jaws. I have no problem with a shot hit along the rail requiring more accuracy than from the middle of the table but there has to be a happy medium. My experience with the pro cut Diamond was that it didn't seem to play unfair on those shots as opposed to say, an Olhausen, which is famous for rattlers. A well set up GC also requires more accuracy when playing along the rail, but a well struck shot can be hit at almost any speed and it will find gravity.

I've only had one real good session on a pro-cut Diamond, at the Tar Bar in Vegas this past May. I thought the table played real well and accepted shots much better than what I had expected from reading the threads on the matter here at AZB. This included shots down rail. I was very impressed with it and finally understood the buzz about them. I was playing very well that night though. :wink:

I've also heard the book on Diamonds is that they bank short. I can't speak to that but in any event I've also read around here that it is being addressed.

I own a GC4. My table was set-up with 4 1/4" pockets by Donny Wessel, so nuff said about that - it was constructed right and it plays right. I think Diamonds are an excellent table but I don't think they have anything over a properly set up GC.

Tell you what, you can pretty much get most any beat up GC out of a pool hall with buckets that has been pounded on by hacks for the last 30 years, take it home and have one of the elite mechanics around here set it up, and you will have yourself a world class pool table.

They are the two best tables - period. As some have said, there are some fairly subtle differences in the way they play, so any preference for one over the other is probably more a matter of taste than anything else. I prefer the way the Gold Crown plays, but that is just me. I can't argue with someone that prefers a Diamond either. That's just them. To each his own.

Just my point-oh-two.
 
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