What A Shame

[ShootingArts]

Detroit

Another problem is the mentality of some of the players. I just spoke to a player about me sending him to an area to play a guy that will lose $10,000+. I also told this young player that I could probably line him up to make nearly $200 per day to cover expenses. The player then told me that he didn't want to go where he might win $10,000 knowing he would be spending $400 per day. It amazes me that his expectations are to have to spend $400 per day traveling. Ridiculous.

OK, here is the real skinny. The death of the road player was a conspiracy by certain people in Detroit. After the local money went down the road with some of the legendary road players it was payback time. Nothing to do with fuel mileage or style, the real reason that cars were downsized was to move the road hogs from the royal suite to the flop house.

Even the top players knew they would be doing some sleeping in their cars and that was as much the reason for the big car as the highway ride. Most pool players could stretch out, front seat or back. Now when a player spends the night in these little cars with his knees jammed into the front seat and his neck twisted like a pretzel against the door while his feet are jammed against the other door it is a chiropractor's delight, if they could afford one. Takes an hour or two just to quit looking like a walking question mark!

Bring back the big Detroit iron and cheap gas then we'll see the rebirth of the road player. Few motel beds slept as good as the back seat of my '67 Poncho Executive. At thirty-five cents a gallon for name brand premium gasoline I don't even remember the gas mileage, who cared?

Hu

 

[cardiac kid]

Johnny,

I may have posted this before but here we go again. Walked into a local Vegas bar. They have a once a week bar box event. House puts up $100 prize fund. Pays out 40/30/20/10. No entry fee. In walks Jose Parica with his cue. What the hell is he doing playing in an event like this? Incidentally, he didn't win!

My guess is, it is no different for the women than the men. Not enough big money events to pay the bills. Too few sponsors. Too many burned backers. Can't remember Allison playing at the Turning Stone though. Karen was there and has done well. Come to think of it, don't remember seeing Allison at any of the major open tournaments. Perhaps my memory is slipping. Growing old you know. Got my Medicare card in the mail recently.

Lyn

 

[cardiac kid]

Johnny,

I forgot to mention how correct you are regarding the loss of entries. Having a world class player attending and participating in regional qualifier tournaments on a regular basis will drive "amateur" entries away. Too few entries as it is. Wish there was a solution.

Lyn

 

[pocketspeed]

Johnny,

I may have posted this before but here we go again. Walked into a local Vegas bar. They have a once a week bar box event. House puts up $100 prize fund. Pays out 40/30/20/10. No entry fee. In walks Jose Parica with his cue. What the hell is he doing playing in an event like this? Incidentally, he didn't win!

My guess is, it is no different for the women than the men. Not enough big money events to pay the bills. Too few sponsors. Too many burned backers. Can't remember Allison playing at the Turning Stone though. Karen was there and has done well. Come to think of it, don't remember seeing Allison at any of the major open tournaments. Perhaps my memory is slipping. Growing old you know. Got my Medicare card in the mail recently.

Lyn

allison has played many times at ts

brian

 

[Nostroke]

allison has played many times at ts

brian

I think only once, maybe twice.

 

[Fatboy]

Tournament promoters, tour directors, league owners, tournament directors, et al., may be the only profit-making folk in pool today.

You can be sure that the pool players are not turning a profit, unless they are sponsored. Even then, it's not even up to middle-class standards.

If they win, say, for example, $10,000 first place, they may be stuck $30,000 from previous tournaments' expenses, entry fees, travel, and lodging expenses.

Not so long ago, my counterpart was offered to be staked in an action match for 20 percent. Even the stakehorses are getting fat when they can gobble up 80 percent, throwing the player a 20-percent bone with not much meat on it.

Railbirds wager on site and even online on pool players matching up. At the end of the day, somebody's making a profit, but, once again, it ain't the pool players.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The existing lot of professional players in the United States is dwindling. With more tournaments being held overseas and only two, maybe three American players sponsored with REAL MONEY and not product, professional pool is dying a slow and ugly death.

Now, leagues, recreational play, social shooting will always be fun. In this respect, though, pool is a game and not a sport. Without a sport, there will be no need for professional-caliber players.

Pool will always be fun for some, just not profitable for others, thereby eliminating the need for professional players.

Its horrible out there for the players, they are still playing for 10K 1st place money, the same as it was 20 years ago, then the promoters stack dates of tournemnts on top of each other-to piss each other off and all that accomplishes is costing the players $$, since they cant be in 2 places at once, its gonna hurt the Derby this year. It hurt Galviston because the Europeans were in Portigual because the dates overlapped.

I never ever heard of Keith picking up a cue for 20%, If you say so I'll believe you. But I know Harry(we talk several times a week) and was around for alot of years and I never saw that. No matter what the case there isnt enough $$$ in pool to keep pro pool floating much longer on a big scale-regonal events will do better though.

happy Christmas to you and Mr.Keith

Eric

 

[Celtic]

I have never heard of a 20/80 split. I have always heard stakehorsing is usually a losing proprosition, for the stakehorse.


Ken

Think about it.

A stakehorse puts up ALL of the money.

Lets say a stakehorse puts up $10,000 for a match.

Lets assume that the match is fairly even, which is normally the case as neither side is into giving money away. An example, Bartram with the 8 out against Rodney in 10-ball, a fairly even match.

Now lets take that 80/20 split and use that.

The stakehorse has a 50% chance of losing $10,000

The stakehorse has a 50% chance of winning $8,000

That stakehorse could take that $10,000 and bet it on banker in Bacarat in any casino in Vegas and get slightly better then 50/50 odds.

That stakehorse on that higher percentage bet would risk

losing $10,000

or

making $9,500

So on a slightly better bet then the pool match the stakehorse is getting FAR better odds on his money from a casino.

A stakehorse putting the money up on a true 50/50 bet and taking anything less then 95% of the winnings is a personal pool player charity organization TBQH. They could get a better bet for that money playing any game in an entire casino that does not require hitting a button.

 

[JAM]

Thanks for the info.

 

[JAM]

Good info.

 

[JAM]

Interesting stuff.

 

[JAM]

youre kidding right?

It's kind of a newbie way of thinking. After a year or two on this forum, they'll understand better! :smile:

 

[greyghost]

Its horrible out there for the players, they are still playing for 10K 1st place money, the same as it was 20 years ago, then the promoters stack dates of tournemnts on top of each other-to piss each other off and all that accomplishes is costing the players $$, since they cant be in 2 places at once, its gonna hurt the Derby this year. It hurt Galviston because the Europeans were in Portigual because the dates overlapped.

I never ever heard of Keith picking up a cue for 20%, If you say so I'll believe you. But I know Harry(we talk several times a week) and was around for alot of years and I never saw that. No matter what the case there isnt enough $$$ in pool to keep pro pool floating much longer on a big scale-regonal events will do better though.

happy Christmas to you and Mr.Keith

Eric

hell brother the first national championship in the 1800's was for 15k If im not mistaken.....think about that

 

[JAM]

Johnny,

I may have posted this before but here we go again. Walked into a local Vegas bar. They have a once a week bar box event. House puts up $100 prize fund. Pays out 40/30/20/10. No entry fee. In walks Jose Parica with his cue. What the hell is he doing playing in an event like this? Incidentally, he didn't win!

My guess is, it is no different for the women than the men. Not enough big money events to pay the bills. Too few sponsors. Too many burned backers. Can't remember Allison playing at the Turning Stone though. Karen was there and has done well. Come to think of it, don't remember seeing Allison at any of the major open tournaments. Perhaps my memory is slipping. Growing old you know. Got my Medicare card in the mail recently.

Lyn

You got it EXACTLY right, Lyn.

BTW, save some of that Medicare money for me. I'm on my way. :grin:

 

[JAM]

Its horrible out there for the players, they are still playing for 10K 1st place money, the same as it was 20 years ago, then the promoters stack dates of tournemnts on top of each other-to piss each other off and all that accomplishes is costing the players $$, since they cant be in 2 places at once, its gonna hurt the Derby this year. It hurt Galviston because the Europeans were in Portigual because the dates overlapped.

I never ever heard of Keith picking up a cue for 20%, If you say so I'll believe you.

Keith never did pick up a cue for 20 percent, but he was asked to about, oh, I'd say it was approximately two U.S. Opens ago.

But I know Harry(we talk several times a week) and was around for alot of years and I never saw that. No matter what the case there isnt enough $$$ in pool to keep pro pool floating much longer on a big scale-regonal events will do better though.

happy Christmas to you and Mr.Keith

Eric

Seasons greetings to you.

As far as Harry and Keith go, they are friends, and their friendship goes WAY BEYOND pool. Harry always treated Keith fairly.

I never meant to imply anything whatsever in this post about Harry Platis. Harry is a gentleman gambler, a rare breed indeed in today's pool world.

Au contraire, you see, Harry understands pool because he's a player himself. I can't say that about the rest of the "backers," especially in recent times, you know, the ones who offer the player 20 percent to get in action.

 

[JAM]

Think about it.

A stakehorse puts up ALL of the money.

Lets say a stakehorse puts up $10,000 for a match.

Lets assume that the match is fairly even, which is normally the case as neither side is into giving money away. An example, Bartram with the 8 out against Rodney in 10-ball, a fairly even match.

Now lets take that 80/20 split and use that.

The stakehorse has a 50% chance of losing $10,000

The stakehorse has a 50% chance of winning $8,000

That stakehorse could take that $10,000 and bet it on banker in Bacarat in any casino in Vegas and get slightly better then 50/50 odds.

That stakehorse on that higher percentage bet would risk

losing $10,000

or

making $9,500

So on a slightly better bet then the pool match the stakehorse is getting FAR better odds on his money from a casino.

A stakehorse putting the money up on a true 50/50 bet and taking anything less then 95% of the winnings is a personal pool player charity organization TBQH. They could get a better bet for that money playing any game in an entire casino that does not require hitting a button.

Depends on who you know, how you handicap pool, and what the game is.

Some people know how to gamble in pool; others only talk about what they think they know about gambling in pool. Therein lies the rub.

 

[JAM]

I never said she was broke or starving to death. When you use to make $100,000+ a year and now are not making $50,000 your life style has to change or you need to find something to make up the difference. If pros keep cashing the top three spots the number of players will start to dwindle, 30, 20, 10, no more tour. Before you flame me that the amatuers love to play the top pros, let's wait about six months and look at the numbers if the same top pros keep winning 75% of the purses. Johnnyt

Johnny, what you write makes perfect sense. That is why some regional tours have amateur-only events today.

I have heard complaints by some serious local competitors when pros are in the tournaments that they don't think it is fair to have the pros in these tournaments where all calibers of players can compete against each other.

I have also heard from recreational and social shooters that they don't mind playing the pros in tournaments.

With the economy being what it is today, this is definitely going to affect the pool scene for everybody, I think. Money is sometimes a little tight. If it comes to eating good or playing pool, believe it or not, some folk would rather eat good. :grin:

 

[Banks]

First off, if somebody has to play in small $40 or $50 payout tournaments to get by, they need a real job. Seriously, spending 5 or 6 hours playing pool to make that little money, you may as well get a job. And to do as well as some of the top pros have, you'd have to be financially incompetent to get to the point of supporting yourself with small money tournaments.

Secondly, if you want to complain about the cuts from a stakehorse, put up your own money. It's like when people whine about their company's owners making the money. You want the benefits without the risks.

Pool is a gambler's game. That means you need to know how to gamble to make the money. I've seen people that don't shoot that well but can still pull in a decent amount of money because they know how to gauge somebody else's speed and personality. And like soccer, you go to where the money is (UK snooker, etc).

That's just my take on what I've seen. And I've said it before, but what also seems to get older players in a bit of trouble is running into health problems without decent insurance. That goes back to being financially responsible, though.

 

[JAM]

First off, if somebody has to play in small $40 or $50 payout tournaments to get by, they need a real job. Seriously, spending 5 or 6 hours playing pool to make that little money, you may as well get a job. And to do as well as some of the top pros have, you'd have to be financially incompetent to get to the point of supporting yourself with small money tournaments.

Secondly, if you want to complain about the cuts from a stakehorse, put up your own money. It's like when people whine about their company's owners making the money. You want the benefits without the risks.

Pool is a gambler's game. That means you need to know how to gamble to make the money. I've seen people that don't shoot that well but can still pull in a decent amount of money because they know how to gauge somebody else's speed and personality. And like soccer, you go to where the money is (UK snooker, etc).

That's just my take on what I've seen. And I've said it before, but what also seems to get older players in a bit of trouble is running into health problems without decent insurance. That goes back to being financially responsible, though.

Stay tuned. A little birdie told me that there's a good pool book coming out that will explain it all much better than I can. It is difficult to talk the talk if you haven't walked the walk.

 

[tigerseye]

Its only for the winter when there is nothing else going on.... there will be plenty of tourneys coming up...

 

[ShootingArts]

Danged silly of pool players!

That's just my take on what I've seen. And I've said it before, but what also seems to get older players in a bit of trouble is running into health problems without decent insurance. That goes back to being financially responsible, though.

Danged silly of pool players to not have health coverage all the time. Silly of the vast majority of small business owners, farmers, people that conveniently lost their jobs just before retirement with the company, on and on. Comparatively few people have health insurance if they are in the same income range as most pool players. The very poor get it free, the upper income people can afford it, twenty years ago health insurance was going to cost me over two hundred dollars a month. I was healthy as a horse and went to the doctor once every four or five years, a bad gamble to bet I would need health insurance.

It is much the same with life insurance. You are betting you will die young, the insurance company is betting you will live your normal life span or longer. I carry a little life insurance most of the time, not much though. I never did like my end of that bet.

Hu