Vince 'Pancho' Carelli - Hustler Extraordinaire

[jay helfert]

...had left Vegas for Seattle, last I heard. Brooklyn Butch's memory has already proven flawed, so I can't accept his version any more than Freddy can accept Billy Smith's. Not sure what the big deal is in the first place; everybody agrees that he was a New York (Forest Hills, actually) Jew who acted Italian his entire adult life. And nobody knows exactly why. GF

I knew Pancho real well, good enough to be invited to the apartment he shared with Santa Ana Rose, a lady hustler. I never knew he was Jewish, always thought he was Italian. I think he liked it that way, a little more of a fear factor going for him.

He sure was a wisecracking son of a gun, a lot like Sizemore only funnier. Sizemore was a real gambler though, not a lock artist like Pancho.

 

[freddy the beard]

Retraction

...had left Vegas for Seattle, last I heard. Brooklyn Butch's memory has already proven flawed, so I can't accept his version any more than Freddy can accept Billy Smith's. Not sure what the big deal is in the first place; everybody agrees that he was a New York (Forest Hills, actually) Jew who acted Italian his entire adult life. And nobody knows exactly why. GF

Billy Smith called me up this morning and cursed me out for attacking his memory of Panch's name. I am forced to do a retraction of my knock. Billy had met Pancho's mother Estelle when they were in NY at her house. I know he met her because I remember her name also (first name). Billy said he told me and George Fels about the name discovery ten years ago. I took the revelation with a grain of salt as anyone who was around Pancho for any time would. He was a mass of misinformation and I thought he may have tricked Billy too -- and he may have. He was jailed a couple of times -- in his alias! I read the arrest and release reports, all in the name of Carelli!
One other guy who knew his real name and was upset at the fact that Panch denied his Jewish side was Philadephia Joel Marx, a pretty good player. Anybody heard anything from him lately?

Beard
Sorry Billy

 

[mr3cushion]

After 45 yrs. this thread could never end this love affair!

The Berad ,Freddy, I affectionately call him,"Frizz", and by the way,so did Pancho. When I first went to Bensinger's with my father, Merhl Smith, who was also was a pretty good billiard player in his day, Freddy was the first person to show me how to make a bridge, I never forgot that. We've been very close friends for 45 yrs.+, sure, who do you know that you've known for 45 yrs. in the pool and billiard world that hasn't had a disagreemnt with each other, Fred and I have been down many roads together, and all of them not always related to pool, but We survived them.

The importance of the name of a dead ex-con artist, pool hustler, brilliant manipulator of people, (and not just weak people), sharp bird's too. Is really not important in my eyes, what is important are friendships, at our age, you can count the living one's, on one hand. The "Panch" is gone, and that's it, I've always said one thing about him, "put Pancho and a deserted island with all the monkeys, and He'll have all thier coconuts in 48 hrs", He just had a knack for gettin the cheese.

Frizz, Merry Xmas to you and your family, and a Happy New Year!!!!!!!!!

Bill Smith "The Frog"

 

[George Fels]

Joe Marks

I wouldn't sit on a hot stove until you DO hear from him, Freddy. He's doing life without parole in Utah for murdering his wife with a butcher knife. His crime? She fed his refrigerated ham sandwich to her dog.

My source for this info was Joe Solomon, and you won't be hearing from him anytime soon either. Happy holidays, Bounce. GF

 

[jay helfert]

I wouldn't sit on a hot stove until you DO hear from him, Freddy. He's doing life without parole in Utah for murdering his wife with a butcher knife. His crime? She fed his refrigerated ham sandwich to her dog.

My source for this info was Joe Solomon, and you won't be hearing from him anytime soon either. Happy holidays, Bounce. GF

I think his correct name is Joel Marx. Just wondering if this is the same guy. He would be over 60 now and probably pretty hefty. He is not very tall (maybe 5'7") and was always a bit over weight. Joe Solomon was a pretty sharp cookie. What did they get him for? I'm guessing it had to be fraud related.

 

[lee brett]

if i was on a desert island i would pick all you guys just to hear the stories,they are brilliant keep it up.

reminds me when my dad was alive, the stuff i heard, and the stories i heard after he passed, great stuff keep it coming.

 

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think there's another game on the planet that has as many colorful characters and as many great stories as the game of pool.
Man, I love these old hustler stories!

 

[jay helfert]

I don't think there's another game on the planet that has as many colorful characters and as many great stories as the game of pool.
Man, I love these old hustler stories!

Get back to work Rogan! We need you on top man. :wink:
Merry Christmas dude.

 

[philw]

I wouldn't sit on a hot stove until you DO hear from him, Freddy. He's doing life without parole in Utah for murdering his wife with a butcher knife. His crime? She fed his refrigerated ham sandwich to her dog.

My source for this info was Joe Solomon, and you won't be hearing from him anytime soon either. Happy holidays, Bounce. GF

Just as I was laughing hysterically at Bill's post about the monkeys (ain't that the truth), I scroll down to George's post and I totally lose it!
Youse guys are killing me!

 

[freddy the beard]

He had a temper

I wouldn't sit on a hot stove until you DO hear from him, Freddy. He's doing life without parole in Utah for murdering his wife with a butcher knife. His crime? She fed his refrigerated ham sandwich to her dog.

My source for this info was Joe Solomon, and you won't be hearing from him anytime soon either. Happy holidays, Bounce. GF

For Jays enlightenment, I believe Joe Solomon is under ground. Joel (I know that that was his first name) Marks (Marx?) is the same guy Jay is thinking of. He had a terrible temper, and would fight on a dime. He is the first guy I heard bark out Pancho's real name at the Rack in Detroit. Unfortunately, I forgot what he said was Panch's last name. Panch, wisely, just took it meekly. Joel once went outside with the goofy, ex-fighter, pain-in-the-ass, at the Rack. The one that the mob guy tried to whack, and left him in the dumpster, but he survived. The same pain-in-the-ass that was the recepient of a cue-ball-in-the-sock, hit over the head by John Popcorn Miller at the aforementioned Rack.
Joel was actually a pretty nice guy as long as you didnt disturb his paranoid side.

Beard

As another aside, Brooklyn Butch Fragone, says his nickname was Poncho, not Pancho, and that his last name was Kreiss.

This post looks like it belongs in The Rack thread.

(Same to you George, old pal.)