My thoughts on conventional shaft vs. low deflection shaft

[salam4]

I noticed quite a few threads about deflection recently so I decided to write this review on my thoughts on switching to a low deflection shaft. I played with a conventional shaft for about 5 years, recently switched over to the 314.

When anyone asks me why I like my predator shaft better my answer is based on simple mathematics. The more deflection when you are shooting the more variance in the path of the cue ball. The more variance in the path of the cue ball the higher chance of error. Conclusively, having to compensate for deflection less increases your odds of shooting a successful shot.

Now there still is a strong following of people who prefer a conventional shaft, I believe a couple of the reasons may be:

1) I think the biggest reason is that people who have been playing with a conventional shaft for a long time are just extremely used to compensating for the deflection. Making this transition could possibly be very hard. Many great open minded players that I talked to said they think the concept is great and makes sense, but the reason they haven't switched to a low deflection shaft is because they have been playing for 20+ years and are just extremely used to their current shaft.

2) Many people mention that they like the "feel" or "hit" of their conventional shaft. I don't know exactly why people say they like the feel of the hit. I could be wrong but my decision is based on accuracy, performance, and results. Not on how a cue feels during a shot when it hits the cue ball. I never really understood how the feel of the hit does anything for performance. I guess I always compare pool to other sports. In baseball when a batter hits a ball he doesn't say "man I like this bat because it feels good when I hit the ball" he says, "I like this bat because the ball went where I wanted it to". I do think that the feel of the hit does matter but I think more focus should be given to overall results and performance.

3) Some people are just stubborn and its impossible to convince them. I met a guy that was basically telling off the people at the predator booth during the super billiards expo last year because he thinks low deflection shafts are garbage. At the time I was shooting with a conventional shaft and it boggled my mind on how big of an idiot this guy was, not because he preferred a conventional shaft but because you could tell he extremely narrow minded he was and his reasoning made no sense.

Also I don't understand how a conventional shaft would make a 90 degree rail cut shot easier. A number of people say that it is much easier with a shaft with more deflection. Regardless, I think it would not be a wise decision to purchase a shaft that would make a shot easier that comes up probably 0.1% of the time.

Overall it's obvious that you can become a great player with a conventional shaft or a low deflection shaft. Try it for yourself and see what you think. I think the part that I really like about the low deflection shaft is when I am forced to shoot a high speed inside english shot. I feel I am much more accurate with my predator shaft.

 

[LAMas]

Close minded posters make this Forum interesting.:smile:

 

[Beware_of_Dawg]

When anyone asks me why I like my predator shaft better...

I feel I am much more accurate with my predator shaft.

"When I was in China on the all-American Ping-Pong team,

I just loved playing Ping-Pong with my Flex-O-Lite Ping-Pong paddle."

 

[trustyrusty]

"When I was in China on the all-American Ping-Pong team,

I just loved playing Ping-Pong with my Flex-O-Lite Ping-Pong paddle."

LOL!! one of my favorite responses EVER!!

 

[jazznpool]

Salam4, Its great that you're happy with your shaft and equipment. Although you might not believe or even understand it, all games of pool and billiards can be played at the highest levels of proficiency and accuracy without a Predator or any other so-called low deflection shaft. IMO, nothing comes close to a top grade maple shaft with a great taper, ferrule, and tip. For the majority of those who purchase Predator shafts, the shaft itself cannot help compensate for their ineptitude or lack of skill.

Martin

 

[RBC]

Salam4, Its great that you're happy with your shaft and equipment. Although you might not believe or even understand it, all games of pool and billiards can be played at the highest levels of proficiency and accuracy without a Predator or any other so-called low deflection shaft. IMO, nothing comes close to a top grade maple shaft with a great taper, ferrule, and tip. For the majority of those who purchase Predator shafts, the shaft itself cannot help compensate for their ineptitude or lack of skill.

Martin

jazz

I may be wrong, but it almost seems as though you feel that Salam4 is trying to convince you that LD shafts are better. I'm not sure that was his intention. I think Salam4 was just offering his outlook to those who may be looking for another players thoughts.

This is obviously a hotly debated topic with many who are on both sides.

I am glad this forum allows us to discuss these things and that everyone has the right to share their thoughts. It is very easy to get drawn in to making it a competition when it really isn't. We don't have to prove to the other side we are right, and vice versa.

Have a nice night.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

 

[deanoc]

This response seems to miss the point that was made in the original thread last paragraph,and also the point of the original purpose

now I don't know much about these new fangle shafts,or how or even if they do anything,but I do recognise an improper response

Oops, Royce tried to be a voice of reason,and i was not responding to his remarks.

 

[Cornerman]

2) I guess I always compare pool to other sports. In baseball when a batter hits a ball he doesn't say "man I like this bat because it feels good when I hit the ball" he says, "I like this bat because the ball went where I wanted it to". I do think that the feel of the hit does matter but I think more focus should be given to overall results and performance.

Problem is, you're wrong. Have you actually ever played baseball??? I know of no batter who ever said "I like this bat because the ball went where I wanted to." That wouldn't even make any sense in baseball.

I batter picks his bat on feel. The feel of the bat in the hands and how it feels when s/he swings it is everything for a baseball (or softball) player. Materials are limited by the rules of the particular league. Differences in materials are mostly for COR and strenght to weight ratios.

For pool, I don't know why it seems so hard to accept that performance and feel go hand-in-hand for experienced players. If it never feels good, a top player will have a difficult time playing their top game. "Performance" isn't just about pocketing balls.

Fred

 

[LAMas]

Similar to some LD shafts.:smile:

Corked bat
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
In baseball, a corked bat is a specially modified baseball bat that has been filled with cork or similar light, less dense substances to make the bat lighter without losing much power. A lighter bat gives a hitter a quicker swing and may improve the hitter's timing. However, since the bat is lighter, the ball does not necessarily travel as far as with a heavier bat, but usually only by a few feet at most. In Major League Baseball, modifying a bat with foreign substances and using it in play is illegal and subject to ejection and further punishment.

To modify a wooden bat to a corked bat, a hole approximately 1/2-inch in diameter is drilled down through the thick end of the bat roughly six inches deep. Crushed cork, bouncy ball, sawdust, or other similar material is compacted into the hole and the end is typically patched up with glue and sawdust. Placing cork beyond roughly six inches into the bat threatens the bat's structural integrity and makes it more susceptible to breakage. Corked bats breaking while in play during games is the most typical way that their use is discovered.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

salam4:
Conclusively, having to compensate for deflection less increases your odds of shooting a successful shot.

Accomplished players who have been playing with higher squirt cues for a long time, especially older players, may be unable to make the switch. But if they could, I believe even those who are now world class pros would be more accurate. I don't believe this is debatable - it would be like arguing that sharpshooters aren't more accurate with less crosswind.

pj
chgo

 

[enzo]

Accomplished players who have been playing with higher squirt cues for a long time, especially older players, may be unable to make the switch. But if they could, I believe even those who are now world class pros would be more accurate. I don't believe this is debatable - it would be like arguing that sharpshooters aren't more accurate with less crosswind.

pj
chgo

that is a PERFECT analogy!! all very well stated.

 

[Schwinn]

Regarding point 2, I disagree. I think "feel" affects performance because it if "feels" right you will have better rhythm and confidence and enjoy stroking through the ball a little better. It may be at a subconscious level but these things translate directly into how well you play.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Accomplished players who have been playing with higher squirt cues for a long time, especially older players, may be unable to make the switch. But if they could, I believe even those who are now world class pros would be more accurate. I don't believe this is debatable - it would be like arguing that sharpshooters aren't more accurate with less crosswind.

pj
chgo

enzo:
that is a PERFECT analogy!! all very well stated.

Thanks (I feel much the same about your avatars ).

Some will say crosswind isn't a good analogy because there's no swerve to counteract it. I suppose the perfect analogy would be crosswinds from both directions, one constant (squirt) and the other variable (swerve).

But I don't think it's debatable anyway that reducing or eliminating the constant crosswind from one direction but not the variable crosswind from the other direction would make aiming more accurate. Reducing the things you have to estimate, even from just one side of the equation, can only make things less complicated and easier.

pj
chgo

 

[manwon]

I noticed quite a few threads about deflection recently so I decided to write this review on my thoughts on switching to a low deflection shaft. I played with a conventional shaft for about 5 years, recently switched over to the 314.

When anyone asks me why I like my predator shaft better my answer is based on simple mathematics. The more deflection when you are shooting the more variance in the path of the cue ball. The more variance in the path of the cue ball the higher chance of error. Conclusively, having to compensate for deflection less increases your odds of shooting a successful shot.

Now there still is a strong following of people who prefer a conventional shaft, I believe a couple of the reasons may be:

1) I think the biggest reason is that people who have been playing with a conventional shaft for a long time are just extremely used to compensating for the deflection. Making this transition could possibly be very hard. Many great open minded players that I talked to said they think the concept is great and makes sense, but the reason they haven't switched to a low deflection shaft is because they have been playing for 20+ years and are just extremely used to their current shaft.

2) Many people mention that they like the "feel" or "hit" of their conventional shaft. I don't know exactly why people say they like the feel of the hit. I could be wrong but my decision is based on accuracy, performance, and results. Not on how a cue feels during a shot when it hits the cue ball. I never really understood how the feel of the hit does anything for performance. I guess I always compare pool to other sports. In baseball when a batter hits a ball he doesn't say "man I like this bat because it feels good when I hit the ball" he says, "I like this bat because the ball went where I wanted it to". I do think that the feel of the hit does matter but I think more focus should be given to overall results and performance.

3) Some people are just stubborn and its impossible to convince them. I met a guy that was basically telling off the people at the predator booth during the super billiards expo last year because he thinks low deflection shafts are garbage. At the time I was shooting with a conventional shaft and it boggled my mind on how big of an idiot this guy was, not because he preferred a conventional shaft but because you could tell he extremely narrow minded he was and his reasoning made no sense.

Also I don't understand how a conventional shaft would make a 90 degree rail cut shot easier. A number of people say that it is much easier with a shaft with more deflection. Regardless, I think it would not be a wise decision to purchase a shaft that would make a shot easier that comes up probably 0.1% of the time.

Overall it's obvious that you can become a great player with a conventional shaft or a low deflection shaft. Try it for yourself and see what you think. I think the part that I really like about the low deflection shaft is when I am forced to shoot a high speed inside english shot. I feel I am much more accurate with my predator shaft.

1) I think the biggest reason is that people who have been playing with a conventional shaft for a long time are just extremely used to compensating for the deflection. Making this transition could possibly be very hard. Many great open minded players that I talked to said they think the concept is great and makes sense, but the reason they haven't switched to a low deflection shaft is because they have been playing for 20+ years and are just extremely used to their current shaft.

I would agree with this completely.


2) Many people mention that they like the "feel" or "hit" of their conventional shaft. I don't know exactly why people say they like the feel of the hit. I could be wrong but my decision is based on accuracy, performance, and results. Not on how a cue feels during a shot when it hits the cue ball. I never really understood how the feel of the hit does anything for performance. I guess I always compare pool to other sports. In baseball when a batter hits a ball he doesn't say "man I like this bat because it feels good when I hit the ball" he says, "I like this bat because the ball went where I wanted it to". I do think that the feel of the hit does matter but I think more focus should be given to overall results and performance.

Here I disagree with you completely, now what surprises me is that you can't understand why people like the feel / hit of a shaft. Then you go on to say that you do not care how a cue feels during a shot when the cue hits the cue ball. Well, I could be wrong and I mean no disrespect but I would also bet you are not a very good player and I say this by your comments alone. You see most good players can tell as soon as they hit the cue ball by feel alone how well they are hitting the cue ball and what they can expect where action / control of the cue ball are concerned. To take this farther many good to great players use the feedback from the cue ( The Feel / Hit ) to judge how they are stroking the ball on any given day. This why feeling the hit of a cue is so important because without this feedback I do not know how people could control their stroke.


3) Some people are just stubborn and its impossible to convince them. I met a guy that was basically telling off the people at the predator booth during the super billiards expo last year because he thinks low deflection shafts are garbage. At the time I was shooting with a conventional shaft and it boggled my mind on how big of an idiot this guy was, not because he preferred a conventional shaft but because you could tell he extremely narrow minded he was and his reasoning made no sense.

I think being narrow minded is a two way street, I think either type of shaft will work well for most people, however, it is preference for beginners. I think the biggest draw back to Non-Conventional shafts are their prices, for the materials used to manufacture them they are way over priced in my opinion. How something that costs less then $10 in materials to mass produce China should sell for the prices asked is Highway Robbery, again in my opinion. But, like I said either will work well, but I think there is a point where a persons learning curve can effect their ability to the point where a change to a non-deflective can never be a positive thing.

 

[Tramp Steamer]

The cue shaft deflection question has been bandied about for a long time. It still comes up every now and again at the poolroom when the guys are sitting around shooting the breeze.
A few years ago we had a little nine-ball tournament, one Saturday afternoon, and the rule was that you had to shoot with either a broom handle, or a mop handle (with the broom and or mop head removed, of course). Although shooting over another ball and other tight places was a little annoying, the very best players had very little trouble in running racks as usual.
I would call these low deflection shafts. The only way you get one to deflect was to stand it up against the wall and step on it.
Other than that, I like the 314/2 myself.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

the very best players had very little trouble in running racks as usual [using broom and mop handles].

I heard Mosconi could hold his cue in his mouth and run centuries while whistling Flight of the Bumblebee. True story; I really heard it.

pj
chgo

 

[manwon]

I heard Mosconi could hold his cue in his mouth and run centuries while whistling Flight of the Bumblebee. True story; I really heard it.

pj
chgo

That's because he was Double Jointed in the Hips, and actually I heard he didn't Whistle, I heard he hummed. I also heard that is where the word Hummer came from, and Willie was certainly a Hummer!!!!!!!

 

[Da Bank]

That's because he was Double Jointed in the Hips, and actually I heard he didn't Whistle, I heard he hummed. I also heard that is where the word Hummer came from, and Willie was certainly a Hummer!!!!!!!

i got a hummer once, but it wasn't from a dude named Willie.

 

[salam4]

1)

Here I disagree with you completely, now what surprises me is that you can't understand why people like the feel / hit of a shaft. Then you go on to say that you do not care how a cue feels during a shot when the cue hits the cue ball. Well, I could be wrong and I mean no disrespect but I would also bet you are not a very good player and I say this by your comments alone. You see most good players can tell as soon as they hit the cue ball by feel alone how well they are hitting the cue ball and what they can expect where action / control of the cue ball are concerned. To take this farther many good to great players use the feedback from the cue ( The Feel / Hit ) to judge how they are stroking the ball on any given day. This why feeling the hit of a cue is so important because without this feedback I do not know how people could control their stroke.

If you reread my post more carefully you will notice I ended the paragraph with " I do think that the feel of the hit does matter but I think more focus should be given to overall results and performance." Also all examples you have given with action / control of the cueball are all related to results and performance of the shaft.

 

[salam4]

I think you missed part of the post....

"Overall it's obvious that you can become a great player with a conventional shaft or a low deflection shaft. Try it for yourself and see what you think. I think the part that I really like about the low deflection shaft is when I am forced to shoot a high speed inside english shot. I feel I am much more accurate with my predator shaft."

So maybe you just don't understand the post

Salam4, Its great that you're happy with your shaft and equipment. Although you might not believe or even understand it, all games of pool and billiards can be played at the highest levels of proficiency and accuracy without a Predator or any other so-called low deflection shaft. IMO, nothing comes close to a top grade maple shaft with a great taper, ferrule, and tip. For the majority of those who purchase Predator shafts, the shaft itself cannot help compensate for their ineptitude or lack of skill.

Martin