Women At The US Opem...maybe

railbird25

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm going to take the heat on this one! The US Open is a men's only tournament and it should stay that way. The womem have thier own tour and they can have a women's US Open. The women want it both ways, they want to play in the men's tournaments, no problem but the men aren't welcome to play in the women pro events. Is this a double standard? Just my opinon

i agree 100% it is a double standard...in this day and age we are all supposed to be equal and no one seems to have much of a problem standing up for women playing in men's events but i don't ever see an argument for the other side i am not partial to a men's only event i think it is wrong but i also think a womens only event is equally wrong...if women want to compete with men that is awesome but men have the same right to do the same...they should promote some events and merge the game into one tour
 

danquixote

DanQuixote
Silver Member
What is truely surprising is that this has yet to be done. I reflect on Jay's comment about the gallery being full during women vs men matches,on past comments about the dismal spectator only attendance at various tournys, and lastly but certainly not the least important, the opportunity to instill the public perception of pool as a family sport. I can think of no one action that could produce so many good posibilities. I dont know the powers that be, or the movers and shakers in the pool world, but IMHO they are nucking futs if they pass on this......Dan
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
The double standard is a big problem, meaning that woman are allowed to compete in men's events, but not vice versa.

It's a tough call. Clearly mixed events are more interesting, better for the sport, and are more fair....however in my opinion, the WPBA is currently holding the game back.

I vote to include Woman in men's events anyway though. Within time this will help to break the barrier. If the top woman start to play in more mens events, their skill level will be forced to progress quicker. Over time, the gap in skill should diminish (as it already has begun to), and the sport could potentially be unified in the hopefully not so distant future.
 
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JustPlay

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The US "OPEN" 9-ball, should be just that___Open to all pool players, period! Who cares if there is a women's tour. Not every woman can play on that tour. So they can't play in their "open" event.....
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... i am not partial to a men's only event i think it is wrong but i also think a womens only event is equally wrong...if women want to compete with men that is awesome but men have the same right to do the same...

The fundamental reason for having separate sporting events for young people, old people, and women (and other classifications in some sports) is that people in these classifications typically perform at an inferior level compared to adult males who are not yet seniors. If the young, the old, and females did not have their own events, these people would be unable to win much of anything in the sports world. They are in "protected" classes so they can compete with similar people.

But at the highest level in most sports, the events are, and should be, open to any human being capable of competing at that level.

In the amateur golf world, for example, the U.S. Golf Association sponsors these six events (and some others) -- one for junior females, one for juniors as a whole, one for senior women, one for seniors as a whole, one for women of any age, and one for human beings of any age or sex. This last event is the U.S. Amateur, open to anyone who qualifies. And if a senior woman was good enough, she could play in both of the senior events and both of the adult (but-not-yet-senior) events. In fact, if this same senior woman was good enough to qualify, she could also play in the U.S. Open (amateurs and pros).

In pool, we see the same sort of thing -- events for juniors, or women, or "Class B" players, or wheelchair players, etc. These groups need to be protected in this way, because most of their players would be completely uncompetitive in open events. But if people in these classes are good enough, they can also try to compete at the highest level in truly open events, which, of course, are currently dominated by adult males.

Perhaps someday women pool players won't need their own tour. But in the meantime, it's a real pleasure to see a few of them able to compete with the top men. And to argue that the top men should therefore be eligible to compete in women's events is just ludicrous.

(This repeats comments I made on this same subject a couple years ago.)​
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
The fundamental reason for having separate sporting events for young people, old people, and women (and other classifications in some sports) is that people in these classifications typically perform at an inferior level compared to adult males who are not yet seniors. If the young, the old, and females did not have their own events, these people would be unable to win much of anything in the sports world. They are in "protected" classes so they can compete with similar people.

But at the highest level in most sports, the events are, and should be, open to any human being capable of competing at that level.

In the amateur golf world, for example, the U.S. Golf Association sponsors these six events (and some others) -- one for junior females, one for juniors as a whole, one for senior women, one for seniors as a whole, one for women of any age, and one for human beings of any age or sex. This last event is the U.S. Amateur, open to anyone who qualifies. And if a senior woman was good enough, she could play in both of the senior events and both of the adult (but-not-yet-senior) events. In fact, if this same senior woman was good enough to qualify, she could also play in the U.S. Open (amateurs and pros).

In pool, we see the same sort of thing -- events for juniors, or women, or "Class B" players, or wheelchair players, etc. These groups need to be protected in this way, because most of their players would be completely uncompetitive in open events. But if people in these classes are good enough, they can also try to compete at the highest level in truly open events, which, of course, are currently dominated by adult males.

Perhaps someday women pool players won't need their own tour. But in the meantime, it's a real pleasure to see a few of them able to compete with the top men. And to argue that the top men should therefore be eligible to compete in women's events is just ludicrous.

You make perfect sense here, however you're overlooking an important consideration to the argument.

The WPBA has fined and suspended several of the top female players after they opted to play in mens events. The most memorable of these was when Jasmin played in the '08 World 10ball.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, but there are politics involved here that are more complex than the seemingly black and white issue that's currently being discussed.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
You make perfect sense here, however you're overlooking an important consideration to the argument.

The WPBA has fined and suspended several of the top female players after they opted to play in mens events. The most memorable of these was when Jasmin played in the '08 World 10ball.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you, but there are politics involved here that are more complex than the seemingly black and white issue that's currently being discussed.


As I recall, the WPBA denied Jasmin permission to play in the 2008 World Ten-Ball Championship because it conflicted time-wise with the WPBA Pacific Coast Classic. Since Jasmin is one of the "stars" of the WPBA, naturally the organization wanted her present for their own event for financial reasons.

I do understand that politics rears its ugly head in all sorts of stuff. My argument, however, is simply about how things should be.
 

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
As I recall, the WPBA denied Jasmin permission to play in the 2008 World Ten-Ball Championship because it conflicted time-wise with the WPBA Pacific Coast Classic. Since Jasmin is one of the "stars" of the WPBA, naturally the organization wanted her present for their own event for financial reasons.

I do understand that politics rears its ugly head in all sorts of stuff. My argument, however, is simply about how things should be.

Agreed. 100%
 

real bartram

Real Cold Steel
Silver Member
" I am debating the positives as well as the negatives of this decision "

This tournament should have been open a long time ago. I've had a few very frustrating conversations with Barry about this in the past. If he does open it up, I think many of the female players that play in it will experience the condescending nature he's expressed to me in our conversations.

I'm glad you used Turning Stone as an example. The tournament director there is awesome and (from my experience) was very respectful towards all the players, men and women.

Maybe I'm short-sighted but can someone explain what the negatives are?

do you think the men should be able to play in womens tourneys?
i think some tourneys should stay same sex or the womens tourney well there would be none.
 

poolhustla61508

Yea....That just happened
Silver Member
Alot of stuff in this thread makes sense. There are arguments for both sides here. Personally I think the top women could be competitive in any mens tournament and if they played in them regularly they would be playing at the same speed in no time.

I do like the point that was made about the double standard though, why should there be a seperate tour for just women and then there also allowed to play in a traditional men's only tournament. It seems like the WPBA is holding alot of there top players back by not letting them compete in major tournaments that are not sanctioned by the WPBA.

I hope before too long that we have one big tour for ALL the top players (kinda like the IPT tried except maybe this time it won't be ran by a Jacka$$)
 

corvette1340

www.EpawnMarket.com
Silver Member
If they get in next year, I will take 1,000-1 and bet you $100. It's like free money for you!

1000-1? Come on now Jay. Even I respect their ability more than that. I imagine that the first US Open to allow women will also garner the most women participants which means there will be a whole host of females that might get a cupcake draw, etc..

Real odds might be more in the line of 75-1.
 

JimS

Grandpa & his grand boys.
Silver Member
There is no viable excuse for not allowing women to play. Allowing only men is sexist and wrong.
 
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marek

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
really?

There is no viable excuse for not allowing women to play. Allowing only men is sexist and wrong.

And as of WPBA there is no viable excuse for not allowing man to play. Allowing only women is sexist and wrong... how about that? :wink: According to your point of view every woman-only competititon (world championships, european championships, amway cup, etc.) is sexist and wrong. Not so simple topic huh?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Just to play devils advocate, does anyone feel that it's reverse discrimination to have a wimmin only tour? After all, the WPBA is just that.

For the record, I have no problem with women playing in the Berhman US Open.


Eric

If you want the answer to this then try the search function. This topic has been discussed at length by the members here.
 

Leanne A

Registered
As a woman I think that if the women think they can compete with the likes of SVB, Johnny Archer etc...on a regular basis then they should open up the WPBA to the men as well. I am sure SVB or Johnny or any of the other top males would love a 15000-20000 guarenteed paycheck every month. As much as I think some of the top women can "compete" from time to time with these guys in the end I think that they are biting off a little too much. The women have their tour and the men have their events. Some other events that are open are fine but in the end if the women want to compete with these guys on a regular basis then do the right thing and open up the WPBA to the men...it would only be fair....Then we would see a definite change in rankings. In the end it should stay the way it is. :eek::eek:
 

horton129

New member
I want to pay $100 to see the first pro male player who show's up at a WPBA event when they release their new tag line "WPBA it's not just for women anymore".
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
As a woman I think that if the women think they can compete with the likes of SVB, Johnny Archer etc...on a regular basis then they should open up the WPBA to the men as well. I am sure SVB or Johnny or any of the other top males would love a 15000-20000 guarenteed paycheck every month. As much as I think some of the top women can "compete" from time to time with these guys in the end I think that they are biting off a little too much. The women have their tour and the men have their events. Some other events that are open are fine but in the end if the women want to compete with these guys on a regular basis then do the right thing and open up the WPBA to the men...it would only be fair....Then we would see a definite change in rankings. In the end it should stay the way it is. :eek::eek:

Please correct me if I am wrong but aren't there hundreds of tournaments every week that the top pros can't play in? Aren't there D, C, and B tournaments that top pros can't play in?

Aren't there wheelchair events that able-bodied players can't play in?

But any C-player, and any player confined to a wheelechair can play in the US Open. As long as HE has a PENIS.

No one cries when Joe the Accountant from Boise has a good day and plays over his head and knocks Johnny Archer out of the US Open. No one says Joe shouldn't be allowed to play because he bit off more than he could chew or that Joe is taking money out of the pro's pockets.

We aren't talking about the WPBA tour here. We are talking about one tournament where everyone EXCEPT those human beings with a Y Chromosone are allowed to play.

What about all those Chinese women who might like to play in the US Open? The same women who have no desire to play on the WPBA tour??? Why should they be denied?

If the "men" are really so good then they have nothing to fear from the women playing alongside them.

Any tournament that is billed as an OPEN event should allow anyone with an entry fee to play in it.
 

CrisDeLaGarza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems like the WPBA is holding alot of there top players back by not letting them compete in major tournaments that are not sanctioned by the WPBA.

The WPBA doesn't try to restrict players from competing in major events. I recently asked if the World Pool Masters was sanctioned by the WPBA and they said that because it is sanctioned by the WPA, WPBA players are eligible to play. The one tournament that Jasmin played in was an exception because of the conflicting dates and I think the WPBA event was scheduled first.

The WPBA sanctioning fees are very nominal and there's no reason a major event shouldn't be able to afford those small fees. The WPBA spends TONS of money each year on branding those players so in turn, they SHOULD own their competition rights.

That is one of the major reasons I don't think the men will ever have a partnering tour with the women....most are too short-sighted to understand the value in some of the policies.
 

CrisDeLaGarza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
do you think the men should be able to play in womens tourneys?

Nope, I don't think they should. And even if they were to be allowed to play in the WPBA events...I would bet that 95% of them would not be able to abide by the player code of conduct rules or agree with many of the policies. Too many have the "what's in it for me" type of attitude.
 

David_Smith

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just so everyone knows, women have played in Barry's US Open in the open division, and Barry has also had a women's division in his US Opens in the past.
 
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