Making the easiest balls first is actually detrimental to winning in 8 ball unless you know you can run out. Table layouts in 8 ball tend to stay roughly the same from shot to shot. An easy shot now will likely be an easy shot later. What you want to focus on are the problem balls. Don't even worry about missing, fix your problems and create more for your opponent until you are certain you can run out.
The hardest thing to teach lower skill level players
- Thread starter jdxprs
- Start date
Making the easiest balls first is actually detrimental to winning in 8 ball unless you know you can run out. Table layouts in 8 ball tend to stay roughly the same from shot to shot. An easy shot now will likely be an easy shot later. What you want to focus on are the problem balls. Don't even worry about missing, fix your problems and create more for your opponent until you are certain you can run out.
hitting soft is one of the hardest things for me to learn. I can get position pretty easily but when I'm playing a safety and I need the cb to travel only 2-3 inches into the ob it's either too soft and results in a foul or barely too hard and leaves a shot.
I fixed it for you
Coming from another beginner, I think your logic is flawed. Most of us beginners aren't gonna be "running out" off the break, and we won't be any time soon.
The most important thing that I've learned is to really try and control "the leave". My buddy who is teaching me continues to preach to me "where will the cue ball be IF you miss this shot?" Is it gonna be an easy shot for my opponent? That can be just as important as trying to set up a pattern. Of course we have to be trying to set up our next shot, and the one after that, and so on. But I've learned that trying to read the entire table and planning how to clear it all is too overwhelming at this point in development. I try to see the potential path and/or pattern, and then work on the immediate shot and it's "leave". And nothing more. Keep it simple, and make that ball first, before worrying about the next one. Because very often that path is going to change.
Yes, in order to advance in skill, I am going to have to be able to look further ahead in planning. But there is no point if planning 5 balls ahead if I can't make the first one and set up the next one.
You dont have to run out from the break, just don't start potting all your hangers until all you have left is hard shots. There is zero advantage to potting a ball that you can pot later with reasonable certainty. In fact, often times, it is to your advantage to leave your balls on the table. If you have a ball in front of the pocket or a ball blocking your opponent's ball, it makes it more difficult for him when he returns to the table. What you want to do is make it so that your opponent cant run out and that, when you do decide to start running out, that it is as easy as possible.
1) Mechanics (making them FLUID) --- def #1
2) Killer instinct
3) Striking the CB with conviction
2) Killer instinct
3) Striking the CB with conviction
The way I've been taught is to use your hangers to get position on the next shot, or the more difficult ones, or both. Leaving my open shots in front of the pocket is an invitation for my opponent to knock them away from the pocket in his attempt to make his shots, and then I no longer have the easy shot that I once did. "Take the duck".... I hear it all the time. I listen, most of the time. If it's that easy, I should be able to use it to get position for the next ball, or to move one of my opponents balls, or both.
Yes, there are always going to be times where it's advantageous to try and block a pocket. But I still have to make mine, too. Balance. Choices. Planning. Damned difficult game, this. Plenty of fun, sorting it all out. :embarrassed2:
Indeed, you should be using your hangers to get position when you want to run out, but most racks have problem areas where beginning players simply cannot get out. Potting your hangers before these problems are solved is a sure recipe for a loss agaisnt somebody who knows how to play even if you have better shotmaking and cue ball control than them. Have you ever been offered the spot to have some of your balls taken off the table after the break? This spot is actually a negative spot, it works to your disadvantage. If he has 7 balls on the table and you have 1 he has basically the whole table to run out and/or play safe with no traffic. You on the other hand have to hope he makes a dumb mistake and leaves you a shot, which, with an experienced player, is unlikely, because there is almost no risk in playing safe with only 1 of your balls on the table.
I have a good friend who i have been teaching how to play 8 ball. He is a good shot maker and can reasonably control the cue ball. But patterns and rack strategy were poor. So assuming there are no problem balls i taught him to try and make the table smaller in other words if there are 3 balls in the kitchen clear them out and play 1/2 table. Also try to leave a ball that is close to the 8 ball to use for position for the 8 thus having minimal cue ball travel to get to the 8. Finally mentally figure out a pattern from the 8 ball backwards to the first shot.Now if there are balls tied up get to them early and open them up. If you get ball in hand and there is a ball in an awkward spot shoot it first get rid of the trouble early. My first thought when it is my turn is how am i going to run out,that's my only concern. Now i do play at a rather high level but if beginners start to think this way it will only help them to move up in levels.Anyway that's how i see 8 ball and all other games.
It might depend heavily on whether 1 or 2 of the top players were Left Handed. Not everyone is going to shoot the same patterns particularly if they have harder shots shooting off handed patterns.
Physical size might also have a change as to which pattern a player will choose. Say someone 5'6" vs someone 6'5".
Some people seeing the 6'5" player shoot would have to use a bridge to run the same pattern. Would you advocate that every player play the same pattern that you would choose no matter what was easier for them?
jdxprs
Banned
i understand the point you are trying to make, but height can be adjusted for by switching hands(which many pros do) or simply leaving the same shot shorter or longer.
the best point you make is the lefty vs. righty. left handed people never think right. lol
jdxprs
Banned
taking an easy shot to establish control of high/low balls because the others dont play well is fine. Just do it in a way that gets you going after trouble balls, or playing the natural pattern that requires less cue movement.
jdxprs
Banned
easy fix. spend 10 minutes a day for just 1 week practicing defensive shots of less than 12 inches. also, try putting just a hair of low inside english. (since you tend to hit a little too hard.)
Thanks for the advice. I do try to hit low with the shots but I've never tried using inside English.
jdxprs
Banned
sounds to me like you are getting bad advice for someone at your current level. in a lot of cases you'd be better off leaving a duck, especially if it is tying up a pocket your opponent needs. running down to trouble balls is always a mistake.
Patterns
Yes I agree with you on that, sometimes being "at" the table the patterns don't jump out at you like they do when you back away from the table say 8ft., if i'm sometimes alittle confused about the pattern to play,Ii'll back away from the table and get a different look.
David Harcrow
Yes I agree with you on that, sometimes being "at" the table the patterns don't jump out at you like they do when you back away from the table say 8ft., if i'm sometimes alittle confused about the pattern to play,Ii'll back away from the table and get a different look.
David Harcrow
Once again, I think this is a matter of circumstance. If I'm playing someone that is a better player than myself, simply leaving balls to "block" pockets isn't gonna work. Any of the better players where I play (and they probably don't stack up against the really good players, but in our little world they're pretty good) will simply knock my ball out of the way as part of their leave on any particular shot. Then what have I accomplished? I didn't take the easy one that was right there, in hopes of preventing my opponent from making a shot in that pocket. While I did that, I tried a much more difficult shot than the duck, and didn't make that ball either. And my opponent simply moved my ball away from the pocket, where it is no longer an easy shot for me when I come back to it, IF I can come back to it. Yes, it is more difficult for him, too. When faced with few options, perhaps that is the best choice. But if I can pocket a ball and move to another....
Yes, there will be times where blocking the pocket is the best option, but I would think that is likely to be after 1/2 to 2/3's of the balls are off the table, and my opponent is limited in shot selection to begin with, and has fewer ways play the shots available to him.
There is another thing that you better players seem to forget about beginning players. Sometimes it's more difficult to make a good "safe" than it is to try and make a ball. The guys that teach me get frustrated sometimes, but if I have a hard time leaving the cueball in a good spot to shoot my next ball, what makes you think that I'm gonna be able to lightly touch a ball and leave the cue up against the back rail? I know that it is the best shot, but that doesn't make it an easy shot. Sorry, tangent...:embarrassed2:
Now it's a different thing alltogether if I'm playing someone who is more "my speed". Other beginners or lower level players aren't gonna be as likely to be able to do as much with the cue ball after hitting the object ball as the better players can. So the block is going to be much more effective, and yes, then I can focus on eliminating the more difficult shots I have on the table.
I appreciate what you are saying,and that if I were better able to run more balls in a row, you're suggestions are probably appropriate. I guess we just disagree at which level of "beginner" we talking about, I suppose.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Table Management...not just for lower leveled or newer players but some seasoned folks too.