Firming up a Radial Pin hit... phenolic inserts?

dirtypool40

dirtypool40

I love this freakin' game
Silver Member
Ok, forgive the noob questions, and please, if you don't have something constructive, pass on by..

I LIKE a firm, "Szamboti PING!" style hit.

I have a cue with a Ti radial pin, the shafts are an open wood hole. I have asked before about phenolic inserts with a big pin. I am interested in what the effect on the hit would be if I put a phenolic insert in one of the shafts as an experiment.

My hypothesis is that it would firm up the hit some.

Sub questions;

  • would there be any long term wear issues from the tight phenolic rubbing on the Ti pin?
  • Would going to a "PILOTED" style joint (same pin / insert combo) effect hit at all, or just be for cool factor. I am pretty sure I saw some Zinzola cues with a piloted Radial joint on here, but have never hit one.
  • Has anyone tried this combination? <Piloted Radial into phenolic>
Thanks in advance....
 
My hypothesis, better woods, ferrule and tip. And tighter construction.
Not phenolic insert.
 
Agreed, but the question is, if I LOVE the cue I play with now, would this firm up the hit a little?

I notice a LOT of variation in hit or radial cues, depending on what wood the pin is into, so I theorize that the "other end of the pin" can have an effect too.

I have a Cocobolo front cue, radial pin into wood hole that PINGS like a Boti+. The maple front cues I have hit, are just a little softer (to me).
 
JoeyInCali said:
My hypothesis, better woods, ferrule and tip. And tighter construction.
Not phenolic insert.
Click to expand...

I agree. I see no need for an insert with a radial pin and I don't think you'll feel any difference. The "Szamboti" ping you're refering to is mostly due to the ivory ferrules and hard tips. Having an insert installed IMHO will change nothing in the hit.
 
cuesmith said:
I agree. I see no need for an insert with a radial pin and I don't think you'll feel any difference. The "Szamboti" ping you're refering to is mostly due to the ivory ferrules and hard tips. Having an insert installed IMHO will change nothing in the hit.
Click to expand...

Agreed, would change the ferrule to linen and use a harder tip. I too strive for that ping sound
 
Hi, I use Garolite inserts within all of my shafts with a 3\8 14 pin. Omega DPK had the phenolic insert detail as part of their design also. I can tell you without a doubt that it has an effect on the hit. It's stiffer. We used to use phenolic but we changed to garolite because garolite is less likely to be effected to dimensional change due to moisture. Garolite also taps better than phenolic or wood with cleaner threads, has a brown fiber type look and the threads will never turn into a spiral line as the fiber will not break down. Unlike wood, you can't over torque and stretch the threads as facing occurs because it is about 5 time stronger than wood. Rick G
 
LGSM3 said:
Agreed, would change the ferrule to linen and use a harder tip. I too strive for that ping sound
Click to expand...

Currently linen based ferrules, I believe they are "threaded and capped". Hard-ish milk dud tips.

scdiveteam said:
Hi, I use Garolite inserts within all of my shafts with a 3\8 14 pin. Omega DPK had the phenolic insert detail as part of their design also. I can tell you without a doubt that it has an effect on the hit. It's stiffer. We used to use phenolic but we changed to garolite because garolite is less likely to be effected to dimensional change due to moisture. Garolite also taps better than phenolic or wood with cleaner threads, has a brown fiber type look and the threads will never turn into a spiral line as the fiber will not break down. Unlike wood, you can't over torque and stretch the threads as facing occurs because it is about 5 time stronger than wood. Rick G
Click to expand...


Thanks Rick. What is this Garolite, and does anyone sell pre-made inserts of it?
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi, I use Garolite inserts within all of my shafts with a 3\8 14 pin. Omega DPK had the phenolic insert detail as part of their design also. I can tell you without a doubt that it has an effect on the hit. It's stiffer. We used to use phenolic but we changed to garolite because garolite is less likely to be effected to dimensional change due to moisture. Garolite also taps better than phenolic or wood with cleaner threads, has a brown fiber type look and the threads will never turn into a spiral line as the fiber will not break down. Unlike wood, you can't over torque and stretch the threads as facing occurs because it is about 5 time stronger than wood. Rick G
Click to expand...

Rick, Garolite and phenolic are the same afaik.
I'm assuming you're using LE Garolite.
 
I googled it, and came up with G10 F4, so similar woven glass phenolic.

EVERYONE seemed to have a $250+ min order, so for my experiment, no go.


moving on....
 
McMaster-Carr has all of them with no minimum order. Might have to buy at least a foot though.
 
I have used phenolic inserts in a few shafts with radial and 3/8 x 10 pins.
I do it for the wear factor and do not really notice any difference in hit, feel, or sound between the shafts that have it and those that do not.

Ya want "ping" ?

Go for a Lexan forearm or perhaps wood cored with Lexan.
Pings like nothing you ever heard before.
 
Last edited:
An lbm ferrule & a Superpro will "ping" all your heart desires. Wizard hards would be a fine choice too. Milkduds are an extremely poor choice of tip for one who likes a "ping".:wink: Installing an insert isn't going to get you there.
 
dirtypool40 said:
Ok, forgive the noob questions, and please, if you don't have something constructive, pass on by..

I LIKE a firm, "Szamboti PING!" style hit.

I have a cue with a Ti radial pin, the shafts are an open wood hole. I have asked before about phenolic inserts with a big pin. I am interested in what the effect on the hit would be if I put a phenolic insert in one of the shafts as an experiment.

My hypothesis is that it would firm up the hit some.

Sub questions;

  • would there be any long term wear issues from the tight phenolic rubbing on the Ti pin?
  • Would going to a "PILOTED" style joint (same pin / insert combo) effect hit at all, or just be for cool factor. I am pretty sure I saw some Zinzola cues with a piloted Radial joint on here, but have never hit one.
  • Has anyone tried this combination? <Piloted Radial into phenolic>
Thanks in advance....
Click to expand...
I doubt if anyone could tell you for certain or if it did for them it would for you. You will have to experiment and see if you end up with what you are looking for. Personally, I would say it would have no noticeable effect.
 
Long ago, i've used phenolic inserts on a 3/8x10 pins..At first i was excited on the effect on it when it comes to hit. After many shots. My observation is that there is no big effect on the cue when it comes to hit.
I would totally agree on the first post of joey..Specially on the woods..
My hypothesis is that better woods are the primary factors when it comes to hit, followed by the construction and techniques applied on it..
 
Thanks for all the great replies guys.

The consensus seems to be, linen based or ivory ferrule and a medium or harder tip.

I am leaning towards a Kamui Black Medium. I have some shafts with the linen ferrules, and will try an ivory as well. As a "spearmint" I also bought some inserts from Chris Hightower, and will try one just for kicks.

...will report back with findings.
 
IMOP the ferrule less shafts have a softer hit...all the materials we use on ferrules are much stiffer than wood, giving the tip some extra backbone to pop the ball off better on contact
 
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