Do You Enjoy Watching Pros on 4" pockets?

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
While seeing the top pros play rotation on 4” pockets is nice to see the best in pool humbled I wouldn’t want to see a steady diet of it at all tournaments. I do agree that 4 ½” are a little too wide on a non-Diamond for top pros, but 4” take too much out of the game. Maybe 4 ¼” might go over better for pro rotation tournaments IMO. If you saw the women’s regional championship played on the 4” pockets you know what I mean…it wasn’t pretty for but a few like Shu Han Chang. Johnnyt

PS: That is what made the way Efren Reyes played against Mika so amazing. It was on 4” pockets. I don’t buy too many dvd’s of matches but I will buy the Reyes/Mika match from TAR to have and show others that never seen him play like that and to support TAR. Johnnyt
 
I agree JT. When every other shot is pocket speed and consequently whitey has one arm tied behind its back, it makes for a less entertaining view.

I wanna see 3 rail positions and more wild english than a Welsh pub on Friday night.
 
In my opinion it would depend on the type/tension level of the tournament/match. On a regional tournament/money game setting real top players should feel the 4" pockets like a breeze, whereas in TV/championships level matches, due to the tension not only from the crowd (and in those situations there're way more of them than in a money game played in a pool hall ) but also from cameras, players should be given a slightly easier table than the one they practise on.
 
have to find the middle ground

Johnnyt said:
While seeing the top pros play rotation on 4” pockets is nice to see the best in pool humbled I wouldn’t want to see a steady diet of it at all tournaments. I do agree that 4 ½” are a little too wide on a non-Diamond for top pros, but 4” take too much out of the game. Maybe 4 ¼” might go over better for pro rotation tournaments IMO. If you saw the women’s regional championship played on the 4” pockets you know what I mean…it wasn’t pretty for but a few like Shu Han Chang. Johnnyt

PS: That is what made the way Efren Reyes played against Mika so amazing. It was on 4” pockets. I don’t buy too many dvd’s of matches but I will buy the Reyes/Mika match from TAR to have and show others that never seen him play like that and to support TAR. Johnnyt
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I don't like watching play into buckets where the balls fall if they are hit within a diamond of a pocket, I don't like watching most folks play on four inch pockets. Somewhere there has to be a medium ground and I think both who is playing and the game has to be considered. For a rotation game I think full table run outs should be almost as rare as the money ball on the break. Not impossible but a genuine accomplishment, not a done deal if a person has a half decent opening shot and no huge problems. The player should have to work for a run out, not just connect the dots.

Hu
 
Any pocket that won't fit 2 balls should be tight enough for pro play, we don't want to tighten up the pockets so much that only the top 5 in the world can run a rack.
 
Johnnyt said:
While seeing the top pros play rotation on 4” pockets is nice to see the best in pool humbled I wouldn’t want to see a steady diet of it at all tournaments. I do agree that 4 ½” are a little too wide on a non-Diamond for top pros, but 4” take too much out of the game. Maybe 4 ¼” might go over better for pro rotation tournaments IMO. If you saw the women’s regional championship played on the 4” pockets you know what I mean…it wasn’t pretty for but a few like Shu Han Chang. Johnnyt

PS: That is what made the way Efren Reyes played against Mika so amazing. It was on 4” pockets. I don’t buy too many dvd’s of matches but I will buy the Reyes/Mika match from TAR to have and show others that never seen him play like that and to support TAR. Johnnyt
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I agree, it's nice to see a small dose of the pro's struggling a bit. Kind of like in golf where they set up the courses for the majors rather difficult and than the next week their back to firing at all the pins.
 
is the match avaible in streaming or youtube(reyes vs immonen)? Or only buying the dvd?
 
That Hard Times table is 3 7/8" (too tough) with a deep, gold crown II, pocket shelf.
I agree 4 1/4" to 4 5/8" is more playable. All the more remarkable is the performance by Efren !! I will be buying that DVD and I also support TAR.
 
IMHO I think 4.5 in pro - cut pockets should b mandatory not just standard.I also think the 4 in pockets should be limited to practice only.If they are going to shoot on 4 in pockets in humid conditions it shouldnt be a rotation game.If it is a matter of 4 in pockets or nothing ,I will take the 4 in pockets.At least I get to see my favorite players battling it out.Thanks TAR if you are reading
 
Guess we're all built differently... as a spectator I love watching runouts. Packages of runouts. Long strings of runouts. I'd love to see a 10-pack on video. Seeing my heros rattle balls and have to settle on shape doesn't really make me happy.
 
No I don't. The national 14.1 championships last year was played on tight pockets and it is no fun watching the top pros unable to get big runs going because of tight equipment.

If pool ever wants to become mainstream they need to play the game on equipment which allows the pros to look like pros.
 
So many missteps have been taken in the game of pool to make it watchable on tv or to get more people in tournys. By promoting Ball in Hand rules and small tables and large pockets, it makes the game look easy. So now we want to do the opposite. To keep unknowns from knocking out the pros out of tournaments because of races being to short. Yet another problem that came about from making the game "more watchable" for the audience. The reason pool is in such disarray is because each segment of pool has their own agenda and own rules to make said agenda work. Shorter races, bigger pockets, Ball in hand vs. smaller pockets, no safetys, longer races. This is a direct result of there not being any governing body to ensure pool grows to the masses and still demands the skill levels of pro players to be outstanding. There needs to be TWO governing organizations of pool. One amatuer, one pro. And the rules should probably be COMPLETELY different so there is no overlap. I would love pool to adapt smaller pockets for pro tournys, especially 10 Ball. 9 Ball has become a joke to many a player because of the luck factor. If 10 Ball was run consistently, and professionally, it could work SO much better. Didnt Mosconi run his famous 526 on 5 inch pockets? If we are going to go down that path why not go to 6 inch pockets then? Do we want better strategy or longer runs? Every goal has its price. When you set up rules it will cause problems and also benefits. Pool supporters need to shut up and accept it instead of incessantly whining about what they dont like. They should instead educate the rest of the crowd about WHY certain things happen in pool. Ok. Way off subject and ranting. End.

My view. We SHOULD DEMAND that pro tournaments only have pro level players in the final 8 because the tables and rules are so tough. An unknown should NEVER be able to knock out 5 pro players because the tables are loose or short races or ball in hand fouls.
 
cueandcushion said:
So many missteps have been taken in the game of pool to make it watchable on tv or to get more people in tournys. By promoting Ball in Hand rules and small tables and large pockets, it makes the game look easy. So now we want to do the opposite. To keep unknowns from knocking out the pros out of tournaments because of races being to short. Yet another problem that came about from making the game "more watchable" for the audience. The reason pool is in such disarray is because each segment of pool has their own agenda and own rules to make said agenda work. Shorter races, bigger pockets, Ball in hand vs. smaller pockets, no safetys, longer races. This is a direct result of there not being any governing body to ensure pool grows to the masses and still demands the skill levels of pro players to be outstanding. There needs to be TWO governing organizations of pool. One amatuer, one pro. And the rules should probably be COMPLETELY different so there is no overlap. I would love pool to adapt smaller pockets for pro tournys, especially 10 Ball. 9 Ball has become a joke to many a player because of the luck factor. If 10 Ball was run consistently, and professionally, it could work SO much better. Didnt Mosconi run his famous 526 on 5 inch pockets? If we are going to go down that path why not go to 6 inch pockets then? Do we want better strategy or longer runs? Every goal has its price. When you set up rules it will cause problems and also benefits. Pool supporters need to shut up and accept it instead of incessantly whining about what they dont like. They should instead educate the rest of the crowd about WHY certain things happen in pool. Ok. Way off subject and ranting. End.

My view. We SHOULD DEMAND that pro tournaments only have pro level players in the final 8 because the tables and rules are so tough. An unknown should NEVER be able to knock out 5 pro players because the tables are loose or short races or ball in hand fouls.
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I can not believe you are saying that an unknown player should not b able to knock a top player off.Top spots are not rented.If you can beat the man,then you can be the man.
 
peteypooldude said:
I can not believe you are saying that an unknown player should not b able to knock a top player off.Top spots are not rented.If you can beat the man,then you can be the man.
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I'm saying it happens WAY too often. Too many times you have a pro player never get to the table because a shortstop runs 4 racks, plays a safety, pro player misses, shortstop runs 3 racks to win. You think that you would have a chance of running a touchdown in a Pro Football game? Beating Nadal or Federer at Wimbeldon? Winning the Masters (golf) ? When something like that happens in a traditional sport its BIG NEWS because it happens almost never. In Pool it happens all the time at all levels of our sport. I think that is a major problem of why it is not taken seriously as a sport. If my fat a** was at Wimbeldon I would have a heart attack long before I would get to a 3rd set against Federer. And that's the way it SHOULD be. It keeps the sport limited to the very best. When Boris Becker won Wimbeldon at age 17, it was big news. And to this day people in the sport of tennis still talk about it. If pool was set up this way I think it would demand a lot more respect.
 
peteypooldude said:
I can not believe you are saying that an unknown player should not b able to knock a top player off.Top spots are not rented.If you can beat the man,then you can be the man.
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I think what he was getting at was that an unknown player should not be able to knock a top player off BECAUSE the playing conditions are so generous that the skill aspect is a little negated. That's the way I read it at least; not that an unknown player can't, just that he shouldn't be able to due to the conditions.
 
cueandcushion said:
I'm saying it happens WAY too often. Too many times you have a pro player never get to the table because a shortstop runs 4 racks, plays a safety, pro player misses, shortstop runs 3 racks to win. You think that you would have a chance of running a touchdown in a Pro Football game? Beating Nadal or Federer at Wimbeldon? Winning the Masters (golf) ? When something like that happens in a traditional sport its BIG NEWS because it happens almost never. In Pool it happens all the time at all levels of our sport. I think that is a major problem of why it is not taken seriously as a sport. If my fat a** was at Wimbeldon I would have a heart attack long before I would get to a 3rd set against Federer. And that's the way it SHOULD be. It keeps the sport limited to the very best. When Boris Becker won Wimbeldon at age 17, it was big news. And to this day people in the sport of tennis still talk about it. If pool was set up this way I think it would demand a lot more respect.
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Of all the sports that you mentioned, there are players interests represented and protected within that sanctioning body. Now, the WPA says that they represent the interests of pool players worldwide. However, the difference between them and the other sports' sanctioning bodies, is that the players of those sports TRUST that their best interests are represented. Unfortunately in the pool and billiards industry, this is not the case...the players do NOT trust the WPA to uphold their best interests.

Now, where am I going with this in relation to the topic? Well, if there is not a trustworthy sanctioning body to enforce those strictures, there will always be the varied playing conditions. That, and I firmly believe that there is such a miniscule difference in skill between the top pool / billiard professionals and a very solid shortstop when compared to, say, tennis. If you looked at the 100th ranked player on the APT vs. say Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal, there would be next to no chance. However, take the 100th ranked player in the world and put him up against SVB, Johnny Archer, Lee Van Corteza, or Efren. You're talking about people like Gabe Owen, Mike Davis, David Alcaide, etc...do you think that it would be as much of a whitewash with them playing a top 5 than in Tennis? IMO, it's alot closer. Yes, there are alot of physical variables that come into play in Tennis, but just looking at skill level vs. ranking, there can be no comparison. Its like apples and oranges.

I agree with what you say, but just had to throw my $.02 in.
 
id like to see stevens cloth and bigger pockets like it was before 87 or there abouts.
 
I enjoy watching the pros playing on 4" pockets. The cream rises to the top with these conditions. I play on them myself and wouldn't want it any other way.
 
alstl said:
No I don't. The national 14.1 championships last year was played on tight pockets and it is no fun watching the top pros unable to get big runs going because of tight equipment.

If pool ever wants to become mainstream they need to play the game on equipment which allows the pros to look like pros.
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Are you talking about the NCS 14.1 National Championship played last August at Comet Billiards in Parsippany, NJ (won by Dan Louie)? If so, those pockets were not particularly tight.

The Predator World 14.1 Championship was held in the same room three weeks later and Oliver Ortman ran 100 or more in four consecutive games.
 
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