i remember hearing grady mathews saying that any tournament that numerous people ran hundreds was usually do to equipment being too loose
Do You Enjoy Watching Pros on 4" pockets?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
i remember hearing grady mathews saying that any tournament that numerous people ran hundreds was usually do to equipment being too loose
I completely agree with this statement
its nice to see that these guys are human.
I like to watch the pros get tested and equipment that i play on, I personally love tougher equipment and I play better on it.
I guess it make me focus, I think the tougher equipment will bring the best players to the top of the field every time.
I like to watch the pros get tested and equipment that i play on, I personally love tougher equipment and I play better on it.
I guess it make me focus, I think the tougher equipment will bring the best players to the top of the field every time.
4 inch pockets are GREAT
We have 14 tables set to 4" pockets. Eight in our tournament room and 6 out front in the retail area we use for overflow tournament matches.
The only complaints we get are from poor losers and from players that need an excuse for 'poor execution'.
The rest of the pool players (a majority) like the smaller pockets and are appreciative.
The 'road players' and out of towners that come and play in our monthly tournaments come expecting tough equipment and tough competition. They are rarely disappointed.
When they do play on 4½ inch pockets they seem huge and the 5 inch pockets are BUCKETS.
Watching the Pros play on 4 inch pockets IMO you are watching the best play on the best under the most competitive conditions.
Ernesto and Oscar Dominguez have their home practice table cut to 3¾ inches and it shows when they play at Hart Times Bellflower.
I think the smaller pockets are what makes the competition so intense. It for great entertainment when the BEST start showing their nerves in public.
When our regular players start running balls on these tough tables, they know their game has really improved. There isn't any false lucky feedback from bucket pockets. They have really improved.
We have 14 tables set to 4" pockets. Eight in our tournament room and 6 out front in the retail area we use for overflow tournament matches.
The only complaints we get are from poor losers and from players that need an excuse for 'poor execution'.
The rest of the pool players (a majority) like the smaller pockets and are appreciative.
The 'road players' and out of towners that come and play in our monthly tournaments come expecting tough equipment and tough competition. They are rarely disappointed.
When they do play on 4½ inch pockets they seem huge and the 5 inch pockets are BUCKETS.
Watching the Pros play on 4 inch pockets IMO you are watching the best play on the best under the most competitive conditions.
Ernesto and Oscar Dominguez have their home practice table cut to 3¾ inches and it shows when they play at Hart Times Bellflower.
I think the smaller pockets are what makes the competition so intense. It for great entertainment when the BEST start showing their nerves in public.
When our regular players start running balls on these tough tables, they know their game has really improved. There isn't any false lucky feedback from bucket pockets. They have really improved.
Man those pockets in the tournament room are tough! i agree with everything you posted man!
I'm used to 4" pockets, but those two front tables at Hard Times are under 4". They are very difficult and play smaller, especially considering they are not level and the humid conditions. I personally think 4" should be minimum for corners with a shallow shelf and 5" for sides. I hate seeing anything over 4 1/2 and won't play on tables like that unless I have to.
Chris
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Everyone has their opinion, none are better than others.
Yours is no exception.
'Gaff' def.
Main Entry: 1gaff
Pronunciation: \ˈgaf\
Function: noun
Etymology: French gaffe, from Occitan gaf
Date: circa 1656
1 a : a spear or spearhead for taking fish or turtles b : a handled hook for holding or lifting heavy fish c : a metal spur for a gamecock d : a butcher's hook e : a climbing iron or its steel point used by a telephone lineman
2 : the spar on which the head of a fore-and-aft sail is extended
I'm not sure why you must use this term for the smaller pocket tables. Is it that you feel you are being cheated?
Most of the good pool halls with any type of reputation for action will have a 'front table' for games of action and usually the 'front table' is the better equipment and has the newer cloth and the tighter pockets. ... some pool halls have nothing but 'front tables' and that is where the better players can be found.
Yours is no exception.
'Gaff' def.
Main Entry: 1gaff
Pronunciation: \ˈgaf\
Function: noun
Etymology: French gaffe, from Occitan gaf
Date: circa 1656
1 a : a spear or spearhead for taking fish or turtles b : a handled hook for holding or lifting heavy fish c : a metal spur for a gamecock d : a butcher's hook e : a climbing iron or its steel point used by a telephone lineman
2 : the spar on which the head of a fore-and-aft sail is extended
I'm not sure why you must use this term for the smaller pocket tables. Is it that you feel you are being cheated?
Most of the good pool halls with any type of reputation for action will have a 'front table' for games of action and usually the 'front table' is the better equipment and has the newer cloth and the tighter pockets. ... some pool halls have nothing but 'front tables' and that is where the better players can be found.
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We're on the same page.
I've won a lot of money on trap snooker and pool pockets...
but i have never played on them for pleasure.
I'd like to see a world standard of 4.5,like the old 5x10's.
You think pool is waning in popularity?Watch tight pockets
make the slope more slippery.
Dallas has a table with 4 1/2" pockets at Clicks in Arlington. I love playing on this table because if you don't focus, it will kick ur butt.
To the question:
I think tight tables are great for the game, especially for the pros. What I saw last night was fear in some of the pros. The look that we as amatures have when we start doubting our abilites during pressure. It only takes an easy shot on these table to lose your confidence, or it takes getting out on a hard layout to regain you confidence. I saw this last night with Rodney vs Max, Rodney was dominating the match, he missed an easy 8 ball, then,
Max won the next 2 games, which put him in the zone. Great Stuff IMO.
To the question:
I think tight tables are great for the game, especially for the pros. What I saw last night was fear in some of the pros. The look that we as amatures have when we start doubting our abilites during pressure. It only takes an easy shot on these table to lose your confidence, or it takes getting out on a hard layout to regain you confidence. I saw this last night with Rodney vs Max, Rodney was dominating the match, he missed an easy 8 ball, then,
Max won the next 2 games, which put him in the zone. Great Stuff IMO.
I agree since the simonis 860 has been made so fast, and Diamond tables with bouncy rails. the pockets had to get smaller or the top guys would be running 10 packs, it dosent take much of a stroke to move the rock these days. I dont like deep shelfs on any table I think 50% is deep enough not 60%.
Personally I liked the slow cloth with bigger pockets, I like shooting to a specific part of the pocket and creating angles instead of having to shoot for the center of the pocket everytime.
All of the above is for rotation games and 8 ball, 14.1. banks.
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for one pocket 4" or smaller is great, on a 4 5/8" pocket which is B-Wick "Pro cut" pockets, they are barn doors playing 1P. 3 7/8" to 4" is great depending on the down angle and the opening angle.
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I personally like playing nine footers with tight pockets. Nothing is more agrivating than to see your opponent miss a shot by a diamond, only to pocket the ball due to buckets. If you don't hit the pocket, you shouldn't be rewarded.
As for pro events, I think they should standardize pocket size (but they should be tight). They don't change the size of the hole in golf, or ball size in pro baseball/football. Have a standard and stick to it.
If the some of the elite players can't make balls on tight pocket tables, then maybe they are "not that elite".JMHO.
As for pro events, I think they should standardize pocket size (but they should be tight). They don't change the size of the hole in golf, or ball size in pro baseball/football. Have a standard and stick to it.
If the some of the elite players can't make balls on tight pocket tables, then maybe they are "not that elite".JMHO.
You are absolutely correct about those two tables at the Hard Times, even the ghost has trouble with them.
The front two tables are a mixture of 3 7/8's and 4" and table # 6 drifts as we saw this weekend. The annoucers commented that Ernesto's & Oscar's home table is 3 1/2 inches. The back 6 tables are between 4 1/4 inches and 4 1/2 inches and are really fun to play on. Some of the afternoon players measured the tables out.
It was obvious that table # 6 took many of the pros out of their comfort zone. I have never seen so many choices for the side pocket as their "out" pocket. Overall we all saw some darn good pool.
My vote would be for 4 1/4" corner pockets.
Thanks Hard Times and TAR!!
It was obvious that table # 6 took many of the pros out of their comfort zone. I have never seen so many choices for the side pocket as their "out" pocket. Overall we all saw some darn good pool.
My vote would be for 4 1/4" corner pockets.
Thanks Hard Times and TAR!!
As far as the Mezz tournament goes, the stream table that everyone watched is not representative of all the tables used in the tournament. Until the field was reduced and the event moved into the tournament room exclusively half the tables used in the event were the more normal 4.75" GC's. 6 of the 10 tables in the tournament room are probably closer to 4.25" than 4". The stream table everyone watched is the tightest table in the house. It is one of 4 tables of about 4" that are really set up for one pocket play, of which there is a lot of at HT. Justin can correct me if this is wrong but the reason this table was used for the stream probably has more to do with that being the best place to set up all the stream equipment rather than purposely wanting the stream matches to be on the toughest table.
As to the general discussion, I enjoy pro pool, period. Unlike many here, I'm not really that concerned with what will appeal to the masses. Tight-ass GC's of 3 7/8" as this past weekend, or 4.5" deep shelf Diamonds doesn't really matter, I enjoy it. If I had to choose between watching pros play into huge 5" buckets versus the tight table I would prefer tight but I like it all.
I'm also not hung up on standardizing the pockets. MLB ballparks are all different, golf courses are all different. I enjoy watching an event like the Mezz where the top players have to fade very difficult equipment and I will enjoy watching them in Vegas play the same game of 10 Ball in two weeks to bigger holes. Sort of like how the U.S Open in golf is known for brutal rough and the Masters is known for very little rough but really tough greens. I dig the variety of watching the pros play under various conditions.
For my own personal play, though I like the tight tables at HT and HB I prefer a little bigger, like 4.25". You can still play to parts of the hole yet precision is required, especially down the rail. At some point the hole can be too small even for one pocket. Yes, tight is good in that game but too tight and you take away the "dig" shot since, with such a tight pocket, there is no way you can dig a ball out of your opponent's hole. But for the pros, it's fun to watch them sweat it on occasion and see how their character responds to the tough rolls. Put it this way, while many here think the conditions were not enjoyable, most of them seemed to have been glued to their computer screens all weekend. :grin-square:
Since almost everyone universally love Diamond Pro-cut tables (4.5" pockets), then I would think no one would have a problem with a GC cut to 4.25". I think these two are pretty comparable.
As to the general discussion, I enjoy pro pool, period. Unlike many here, I'm not really that concerned with what will appeal to the masses. Tight-ass GC's of 3 7/8" as this past weekend, or 4.5" deep shelf Diamonds doesn't really matter, I enjoy it. If I had to choose between watching pros play into huge 5" buckets versus the tight table I would prefer tight but I like it all.
I'm also not hung up on standardizing the pockets. MLB ballparks are all different, golf courses are all different. I enjoy watching an event like the Mezz where the top players have to fade very difficult equipment and I will enjoy watching them in Vegas play the same game of 10 Ball in two weeks to bigger holes. Sort of like how the U.S Open in golf is known for brutal rough and the Masters is known for very little rough but really tough greens. I dig the variety of watching the pros play under various conditions.
For my own personal play, though I like the tight tables at HT and HB I prefer a little bigger, like 4.25". You can still play to parts of the hole yet precision is required, especially down the rail. At some point the hole can be too small even for one pocket. Yes, tight is good in that game but too tight and you take away the "dig" shot since, with such a tight pocket, there is no way you can dig a ball out of your opponent's hole. But for the pros, it's fun to watch them sweat it on occasion and see how their character responds to the tough rolls. Put it this way, while many here think the conditions were not enjoyable, most of them seemed to have been glued to their computer screens all weekend. :grin-square:
Since almost everyone universally love Diamond Pro-cut tables (4.5" pockets), then I would think no one would have a problem with a GC cut to 4.25". I think these two are pretty comparable.
4" is great if and I repeat "IF" the equipment is perfect. Tables with slight rolls need not apply. 4.25 is a nice general purpose width for Rotation. Straight-Pool into 4" would make a 60 be almost world class.
Owners who what uber-tight equipment better have pure leveled - fresh clothed tables.
Owners who what uber-tight equipment better have pure leveled - fresh clothed tables.
I think 4-1/4 inch pockets are appropriate for rotation games. Table 1 at Hard Times is the tightest table I've ever run across anywhere. I heard people coming on the stream yesterday at the Mezz event saying I can beat these guys what is going on here. I don't think that is good for the fans but good tuff pockets are fine. That table had 3-7/8" pockets which isn't right for 10 ball or any other rotation game imo. I thought it was interesting though especially for me to see who adjusted the best to the conditions. I wouldn't want to watch that every tournament though....