Gamblers and money players are too kinds of people .
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i wouldn't agree with the second part. just because someone likes to have the nuts when they play doesn't mean they can't play for money without it
Based on your description, it sounds like "money players" are smart "gamblers".
The Gambler
Vegas does not gamble, they conduct business. Both the gambler and Vegas take risks, but only the gambler plays against the odds.
In any one transaction on the pool table, there is a gambler and there is the business man. As long a player has an advantage, I don't consider him as a gambler. He is conducting business in my opinion. Just as in Vegas, that does not guarantee a victory, but in the long run the player will win over the gambler. If the "rake" or table time is too high, then they both lose!
Vegas does not gamble, they conduct business. Both the gambler and Vegas take risks, but only the gambler plays against the odds.
In any one transaction on the pool table, there is a gambler and there is the business man. As long a player has an advantage, I don't consider him as a gambler. He is conducting business in my opinion. Just as in Vegas, that does not guarantee a victory, but in the long run the player will win over the gambler. If the "rake" or table time is too high, then they both lose!
vegas doesn't gamble
As far as the gaming goes, vegas doesn't gamble. They know that they have a large enough volume of suckers that they win on the overall. The only gamble they take is the same as any other business, far less because of the guaranteed house profits in gambling games.
A decent pool player with any smarts at all doesn't gamble either, he knows he will be the overall cash winner over time. I can win 40% of my bets, whine all the time about my losses, have people jumping to play me, and be well ahead on the cash!
Hu
Vegas does not gamble, they conduct business. Both the gambler and Vegas take risks, but only the gambler plays against the odds.
In any one transaction on the pool table, there is a gambler and there is the business man. As long a player has an advantage, I don't consider him as a gambler. He is conducting business in my opinion. Just as in Vegas, that does not guarantee a victory, but in the long run the player will win over the gambler. If the "rake" or table time is too high, then they both lose!
As far as the gaming goes, vegas doesn't gamble. They know that they have a large enough volume of suckers that they win on the overall. The only gamble they take is the same as any other business, far less because of the guaranteed house profits in gambling games.
A decent pool player with any smarts at all doesn't gamble either, he knows he will be the overall cash winner over time. I can win 40% of my bets, whine all the time about my losses, have people jumping to play me, and be well ahead on the cash!
Hu
That's too much of a generalization. Think of a spectrum that on one end has the biggest lock artist in the world and on the other end is Chris Bartram or Scooter.
As you move from the lock artist towards Chris we'll get people who become more & more inclined to get in the box and risk their cheese. Throw in a little alcohol on payday and even a nit lock artist might risk a 20 spot on only getting the 8 against an even opponent.
As you move from the lock artist towards Chris we'll get people who become more & more inclined to get in the box and risk their cheese. Throw in a little alcohol on payday and even a nit lock artist might risk a 20 spot on only getting the 8 against an even opponent.
There aren't many "gamblers" these days.....90% of the people that approach me to wager are looking to steal.....they have the nuts, they know it, and they are just hoping to catch me napping....
The other 10% are friends, and usually I don't mind a little cheap action for fun....
The other 10% are friends, and usually I don't mind a little cheap action for fun....
IMHO in Las Vegas the house alway win in the long run. They work the ods.
plenty of gamblers
There are plenty of gamblers, the problem is that they aren't primarily pool players, they are primarily gamblers. When they can get their fix sitting on their ass at the video poker machine instead of the little effort involved in playing pool they pick sitting on their asses. Horse tracks too would be gone if they weren't subsidized by casinos. The gamblers gamble in the easiest way, pool and handicapping horses require effort.
Hu
There are plenty of gamblers, the problem is that they aren't primarily pool players, they are primarily gamblers. When they can get their fix sitting on their ass at the video poker machine instead of the little effort involved in playing pool they pick sitting on their asses. Horse tracks too would be gone if they weren't subsidized by casinos. The gamblers gamble in the easiest way, pool and handicapping horses require effort.
Hu
I just don't understand this view. How is this stealing? How is betting on a sure thing to earn some cash any different from going to a job and earning some cash? That's also a sure thing, and not generally considered stealing. They're both money earned for time spent. In the case of the "sucker" - he made a choice to play you, and in the case of the employer, "he" made a choice to hire you. I just don't see a difference. People can argue that the "sucker" didn't have complete information, but we have to make decisions every day based on incomplete information. Those decisions don't generally result in accusations of theft just because we don't like the outcome.
Not to put words in your mouth but it sorta sounds like your defining a money player as a nit...lol
its stealin if you gotta be deceptive to get action. I'm a gambler and will still probably play if someone flat out tells me there gonna run over me. Just don't appreciate some lazy, full time pool player who acts like he is nobody and that i have a great shot, when really he's a world beater.
Basically its stealin, Guys like this should have thought twice when they chose a career that ensures less action.
Just my 2 cents, i'll still be the sucker who donates to the scumbags.
and yes, if you get somebody in a trap then your a scumbag...even if its momentarily
Some people who gamble are of the mind set they don't mind giving their hard earned money away again, and again. I do not understand WHY these People GAMBLE, but is is there money to do with as they wish!!!
Tap! Tap! I've been saying this for years. Video poker and Riverboats have been the reason for the poolrooms decline for 20 years. IMO, a poolroom needs action, and the poker machines starting taking that money out of action years ago. What the Cherry Masters don't eat, The riverboats get. I don't blame the room owners. I would do the same. 25 years ago, There would be people gambling on half the tables in my local room daily, And the lunch counter was full with people waiting. Now, The counter is empty, the tables are empty and the only thing keeping the doors open is the Cherry machines.
That's just it - at the end of the day, if a person has any wits about them, there can be no deception when proposing to play a game of pool for money. I watch you shoot pool for an hour - you shoot like crap. Or maybe you shoot OK. Or maybe you shoot great, but miss some dumb shots. Doesn't matter. At the end of it all, you propose to play me for $X, whatever $X is. Suppose all the while, you tell me how bad you are, or how you get lucky once in a while, or whatever mode of "deception" you want to use. You still make the offer. So, if I have ANY BRAINS about me at all, I know that you are only making the offer because you think you will get money from me - one way or another. So no matter WHAT ELSE you may say or do, you are demonstrating you think you can take my money. There can be no deception there. The only deception is going on in my own head. I am probably deceiving MYSELF into thinking that I can take YOUR money, thanks to my own stupid ego and the fact that I think I know more than you do about the situation. But as for you, you have made your position quite clear. You think you can take (at least) $X from me - about that, there can be no doubt. So, I don't think there is any deception on your part. Your position is clear by virtue of you offering or accepting a wager.
I don't know about this theory. I have guys that I gamble with from the barber shop every two weeks and they like to bet between $50 and $100 per game playing bar table 8-Ball (call kisses, caroms, and banks) with Ball in Hand. Here's what's funny about them they have never once complained about someone leaving early. Normally we do it challenge table style with winner keeping his break. I have the best of this game by far and have only come out a loser one time and we've been playing for close to a year.
I also have another guy that I play with maybe 6 times a year that recieved a multi million dollar inheritance. First time we played I won $500. Now we play $20/sets and he's a cool dude to play against and I don't always win. The money is totally irrelavent to him and because he's a cool guy I don't woof at him to bet more. This game is pretty close between us I think if I spot him anything wild he will win.
Point is a lock smith and a gambler are different, however playing with the best of it just makes you good at matching up. Obviously the other guy feels like he can win if he puts his money up.
I also have another guy that I play with maybe 6 times a year that recieved a multi million dollar inheritance. First time we played I won $500. Now we play $20/sets and he's a cool dude to play against and I don't always win. The money is totally irrelavent to him and because he's a cool guy I don't woof at him to bet more. This game is pretty close between us I think if I spot him anything wild he will win.
Point is a lock smith and a gambler are different, however playing with the best of it just makes you good at matching up. Obviously the other guy feels like he can win if he puts his money up.
The perception of someone always being on the hustle is too funny. Sometimes people really are just idiot gamblers.
These are the same paranoid people who will call you a hustler or shark after making one simple bank shot.
Are you seriously comparing an honest days work for an honest wage.....to an A player approaching a C player, pretending to be a C player, asking for an even game????
Allow me to make an appropriate work analogy:
Your boss comes to you with a proposition.....he offers to double your pay for the day if you turn out 1000 parts today.....now, your best performance in one day is 1050 parts - you were on your game, nothing broke, you took no lunch and no breaks that day......now, if you don't hit 1000, you don't get paid for today at all.....you like a good challenge and know that the odds are probably 50/50 to pull it off, but you figure it's worth the gamble....you take the bet....
What you don't know if that the entire system is going down at 3pm, 2 hours early, and your odds are more like 95% to lose......well, you are cranking.....just before 3pm, you are at 900 parts and on fire......all of a sudden, everything shuts down.....boss comes out of his office, tells everyone to go home, the system outage was planned and he wanted to give everyone a couple of hours off......he gives you a little smile....
That's how I see it
Well, first of all, I wouldn't take that bet. I think the odds are horrible. But playing along....
and that's exactly why its a horrible bet. You bet on conditions beyond your control in this case. That's a definite gamble. If I took this bet and this is what happened, would I be pissed? Sure. Would I feel like the boss somehow stole my day's pay from me? Nope. Would I have learned a lesson about being greedy? Probably. Would I be more careful about stipulating the terms and conditions of similar bets in the future? You betcha.
I doubt that very many people fit neatly into those categories. Some people have more self control and a more realistic opinion of their own ability than others when it comes to matching up.
If I was going to guess which one is more likely to be going around the pool hall trying to borrow money from everybody because he is broke, it would be the guy you label a "gambler".