Gambling vs. playing for money. There's a difference.

Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
Keep in mind these are just my opinions. But I'd like to hear other opinions as well.

In light of the recent "What's your take on people that won't gamble?" thread, I've come to the conclusion through other people's posts that playing pool/ gambling and playing pool for money are two seperate endeavors. My reasoning is based upon these apparent scenarios:

1.) A person can play someone a set or a match of pool for small money, say $10 or $20, maybe even $50 a set. They are only putting money on the set to bring out their best game, to have SOMETHING to play for. If the people betting have a lot of money with them and a nice, fat bank account and paying bills and saving money monthly is no problem for them, then this is not gambling, imo. As TWOFORPOOL said in the other thread, this is just entertainment.

2.) If those same two people in example #1 above are living from day-to-day, struggling to make ends meet, and come to the poolhall with the only $20 to their name in their wallet hoping to parlay that into more money so they can pay a bill or eat for the next few days, and bet that $20 on a pool set, then THAT would be gambling, imo.

3.) If a person plays for larger money, say $500 to $1,000 a set but he only puts up a small amount of it and is staked for most of it (and for the most part meets the criteria in example#1), then imo this is not gambling (at least not by the player). The stakehorse more than likely can easily afford to do this so in essence, he is really not even gambling.

4.) If a person puts up $500-$1,000 a set of their own money, has a fat wad of money from time to time in their wallet when the winning is good, but goes bust now and then, then this is gambling, imo. A road player would fit into this category, and imo road players are without a doubt gamblers.

5.) Anyone who puts up five-digit bets is GAMBLING, I don't care how much money this person has. 10K or more buys a lot of groceries!!!

Here is where I am. I have never bet money on a pool game with someone I was not closely associated with. I have no problem with people doing whatever they want to do with their money, as long as it doesn't aversely affect anyone else's life. I would take someone up on an offer for a cheap set (say a $20 set, maybe even a $50 set on a rare occasion), but strangely enough, I have NEVER been asked by anyone in a bar or poolhall to play for money. I feel like a $20 set (which I fall into category #1 above) would be a slight improvement compared to league play. I'd probably spend roughly the same amount of money (possibly WIN some), play more games, and spend less time doing it. Even though I would jump at the chance to do this, if I ever did so I would not consider this gambling. It is certainly no more of a gamble than league play.

So, what other examples/categories can you fit between the five I have listed above? How do your opinions differ/agree with mine?

If I was given the chance to play for small money, would you consider ME a gambler?

Please, no HEATED arguments here, okay?

Maniac
 
I think everyone is different. Some good players just can't get the money out of their head when gambling. When they come down to the last few balls before the money ball they see a big $ sign on the money ball, be it the 8-ball, 9, or 10-ball. Some play very well for under $50 or $100 a set, but raise the bet to $200 or more a set and their a different player all together.

Myself, I always played with my own money. I had a comfort zone of about $200 a set. Anything over that and my game usually went down hill unless I knew I had the nuts. I also found that if I played for low stakes I missed very easy shots that I almost never missed for more money

I had a 100 ball runner in my pool room. He came in every day and ran high runs (50-100) for practice or time and a few dollars. If he bet $50 he couldn't run a rack. He also couldn't shoot well in a strange poolroom. Johnnyt
 
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probably a lot more splits

There are probably a lot more finer splits but basically three splits come to mind when people bet.

First is a guaranteed win. When a shortstop or better hits the bars it is as close to a lock as you can get. No gamble there.

Second is gambling for entertainment. When I go to the horse track I put twenty or forty dollars in my front pocket for stake money. Lose my stake and I am done for the day even if I have a thousand in my other pocket.

Third is gambling to live. It isn't a lot of fun gambling to live. It is a job and a tough job at that. I have started the night on one barrel for weeks at a time. There is a wee bit of pressure when you are always trying to turn a tooth pick into a lumberyard and even when things are rolling good gambling and shooting pool to live takes all of the entertainment out of it.

I have been in all three positions above and I have to say gambling for entertainment is by far the most fun. When you are trying to gamble to live or know you are the winner before the game starts it isn't much fun. I never gambled with friends and family because the outcome was always known. I was the only serious pool player in my group although a lot of them played for fun. There simply wasn't enough spot to give them.

Hu
 
Myself, I always played with my own money. I had a comfort zone of about $200 a set.

That's a good phrase, "comfort zone"! Maybe it's not really gambling until you're out of your comfort zone? Good one Johnnyt!!!

Maniac
 
Second is gambling for entertainment.

I have been in all three positions above and I have to say gambling for entertainment is by far the most fun.
Hu

But is gambling for entertainment really gambling? It seems like the word gambling and the word entertainment in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

Blowing money for fun shouldn't be construed as gambling, even if something can be gotten out of it, imo. OTOH, blowing money that you really don't want to let go of, is gambling in the true sense of the word.

Maniac

Maniac
 
both are gambling

But is gambling for entertainment really gambling? It seems like the word gambling and the word entertainment in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

Blowing money for fun shouldn't be construed as gambling, even if something can be gotten out of it, imo. OTOH, blowing money that you really don't want to let go of, is gambling in the true sense of the word.

Maniac

Maniac


Both are gambling however gambling for entertainment is pretty harmless. When you gamble at or beyond your "comfort zone" as JohnnyT put it so well, you may be a problem gambler. You either are gambling to live and don't have any option or you are gambling for the rush. The rush can be addictive, doesn't matter if you get it from gambling, jumping out of airplanes, or a needle. If you find yourself constantly gambling outside your comfort zone you need to take a hard look at why you are doing it. There are good reasons and bad.

Hu
(apologies but I am stepping out the door and will have to pick up the conversation this evening)
 
A twenty-five cent three-ball game is gambling, at least by definition.
So by extension, a participant in a twenty-five cent three-ball game is a gambler. At least until the completion of the game.
Playing pool for money is not necessarily gambling. We all know that pool players regularly compete in tournaments for money who are not otherwise gamblers.
If I say to you. "I'll bet you a dime to a donut that I can make a spot shot nine out of ten times." Would I be considered a gambler? Or would I, or my family be best served if I kept the dime and the donut and used it to feed my children who are waiting at home, cold and hungry. No shoes on their feet. Barely able to pay the rent because I am alone in some dark and musty poolroom wagering the last dime and donut we have. Vile, wretched beast that I am.
My God man, have you no feelings. Lend me a donut. :grin:
 
So then, would putting up $6 on an APA match to try for a shot at Vegas be construed as gambling? You are losing money if you don't make it, same as playing someone an affordable "cheap set" for cash. You might say that the APA dues/fees are for socializing/fun, but the "cheap set" bettor could say the very same thing.

Maniac
 
When I read the question it reminded me of the movie "My Cousin Vinny".

To paraphrase ... "Do grits cook faster in your house than in any other house on the planet?"

Is the definition of gambling different in your mind than in the minds of the entire society?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/

simply type the word in.
 
I would seriously doubt that you have never placed a bet on a game of pool.

If you enter a tournament you are betting/gambling. You are betting the opening fee, the possible winnings and the chances you have of winnings.

If you are playing for table time you are betting/gambling for the same reasons.

Now there is nothing wrong with gambling per-se as everything in life is a gamble. You cross the street and your gambling with your life.

Someone who has a real problem is when (like you,) they no longer see something as gambling are on the downwards road to addiction. Denial is the first step. You have a problem.

Your probably saying "WHAT THE ****" at this point which is good because it means your moving towards the second stage (anger).

Then according to your criteria, just about everyone on the planet has gambled and is in denial. Every person that has paid for a meal thinking they may enjoy it, every person who pays to watch a movie thinking they may be entertained by it, every person that has paid to watch a high school football game hoping their home team will win, every person that has paid money to take music lessons with the aspirations of becoming a musician, etc. (you get the picture) by your standards is on a "downwards road to addiction". This include you I'm sure How could this not include you based on your own criteria?. I am quite sure that you have probably placed a bet on many more things in your life than I EVER have. Anyone that knows me knows that I don't like to put my money into something that I can't hold in my hands or put in my house. I NEVER got on the football "pots" in my 30 years at General Motors. After having a State Lottery in Texas for many years now, I have still not spent one red cent on a lottery ticket and never will. And regardless of what you think, I have yet to ever place a bet on a game of pool. Your tournament comparison to gambling is way off base as to the true sense of gambling that is the subject of this thread.
So....next time I cross the street, I'm gonna check myself into a rehab facility before that becomes a real problem :rolleyes: !!!

Maniac
 
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If you read my entire post, you'll see that I need no "road to recovery" as I have NEVER placed a bet on a game of pool. Do you think after reading my post that I have some sort of a problem???

Maniac

Here we go, with the judgmental crap and you asked for a decent discussion?
 
I still think that Gambling is definded at an attempt to beat the odds in order to take turn a small investment into a large return.
Relate that to pool, it would have to like one guy betting $20 against the chance of winning more than his/her original $20.
So when you have two guys putting up the same $50 for a race to 7, I don't see it as gambling 'cause all anybody is going to win from that set is no more than what he/she invested.
That would be playing for money to me.
In addition to those thoughts, I would assume that most players are like me when I say that I won't get into a money match unless I feel like I have a fair chance to win. By that I don't mean hitting up obvious lesser players that I know I can beat. I mean matching up with somebody that I think I can beat, but it's gonna take my better game. That also is not what I consider gambling because I'm not exactly going against the odds.
dave
 
Here we go, with the judgmental crap and you asked for a decent discussion?

Your post sounds as if you think I am the one being judgmental. I did ask for a decent discussion. I made a statement that I have never gambled on a game of pool in my life, which is the utter truth, and one poster comes on here and in one post calls me a liar AND insinuates that I am on a downhill spiral, in denial and needs to be on a road to recovery. WTF???

I've about completely given up on harmony on this website. Too many people here must get their "jollies" by baiting people instead of offering a reasonable, serious opinion.

Maniac
 
That's a good phrase, "comfort zone"! Maybe it's not really gambling until you're out of your comfort zone? Good one Johnnyt!!!

Maniac

i wouldn't say that. gambling is gambling no matter if it's in your comfort zone or not. i've never played well enough to have anyone stake me so i'm always stuck betting my own dough
 
I still think that Gambling is definded at an attempt to beat the odds in order to take turn a small investment into a large return.
Relate that to pool, it would have to like one guy betting $20 against the chance of winning more than his/her original $20.
So when you have two guys putting up the same $50 for a race to 7, I don't see it as gambling 'cause all anybody is going to win from that set is no more than what he/she invested.
That would be playing for money to me.
In addition to those thoughts, I would assume that most players are like me when I say that I won't get into a money match unless I feel like I have a fair chance to win. By that I don't mean hitting up obvious lesser players that I know I can beat. I mean matching up with somebody that I think I can beat, but it's gonna take my better game. That also is not what I consider gambling because I'm not exactly going against the odds.
dave

So you'd have to bet getting odds on the money for it to be gambling.

When i've got enough cash in my pocket i like playing players that play way better than i do. there's a local player i like to play that i've got basically no chance at beating. i still like playing him though because i always feel like i've learned something when it's over
 
I may be at the extreme edge of this, but I believe gambling is undertaking any endeavor where the outcome is not known. That includes driving your car (you never know what the other drivers are going to do), to investing in the stock market. Therefore, I personally see nothing wrong with gambling per se.

When you become addicted to thrill of the gamble, and cannot control your urges anymore, then you have a problem and maybe need some counseling. Very few outside of Vegas or Atlantic City fall into this agenda.

I do not believe that taking your last twenty and putting it on a pool game is a sign of a problem. We all know that lone twenty isn't going far at all, might as well use it as a tool to try and get enough to actually make a difference. Not throw it away, but invest it wisely on your skill.

I think that many that say they do not gamble at all, just mean that they do not gamble in the traditional sense of the word, meaning making a bet on something. They still gamble, such as the stock market, it's just that so many do it that way that it has become acceptable and frowned upon.

The ones I don't understand are the ones that think that betting a dollar on a pool game is equal to being a degenerate gambler with no control over themselves.???


i always think it's strange when i walk into a pool room with people that all have nice cues. cues and cases ranging from $50-$2k and nobody'll play for 20. people have enough respect for their game to buy a nice cue but not to bet on themselves.
 
Your post sounds as if you think I am the one being judgmental. I did ask for a decent discussion. I made a statement that I have never gambled on a game of pool in my life, which is the utter truth, and one poster comes on here and in one post calls me a liar AND insinuates that I am on a downhill spiral, in denial and needs to be on a road to recovery. WTF???

I've about completely given up on harmony on this website. Too many people here must get their "jollies" by baiting people instead of offering a reasonable, serious opinion.

Maniac

Sorry, didn't mean it to sound like it was you:sorry: I get what you're saying about the harmony. I'm seriously considering taking a break, getting another home page or whatever. I'm really getting sick of some of the stuff posted here by people who have absolutely no clue about the discussion they're involved in. My post in another thread about the return of PJ was only part in jest. Again, sorry if I gave you the wrong impression.
 
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