SVB's bad decision cost him dearly

Neither back cut to the side was a hanger. Both backed up short.

I think he got a little impatient. Recall the severe 1b cut to the corner to carom off another ball? Hit with a lot of inside-it all just got ugly. A risky decision that went bad. After that-momentum changed/rolls changed/karma changed-impatience prevailed-Shane let one get away.

It happens. Probably not again-the same way.
 
jay helfert said:
The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!
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I agree 100%. How many times is a player going to luck his way to snapping off a tournament? It also slows down the game to where it can be brutal to watch (I couldn't fade the finals). I don't get it.
And I don't see how Shane made a bad decision. He played the right shot, called the correct ball, just missed it.
 
I try not to question a guy that can give me the last five and like it. Talk all you want, but under certain situations, you make a decision. He made his. It's worked pretty well for him so far.

Or.. you could call him and tell him he fu@#ed up.
 
poolhustler said:
I remember that shot. It was a very critical game for SVB to win. I thought he would play safe and lock LVC down. He surprised me by playing the bank and even more surprised when he missed it. It wasn't a difficult bank shot. Jay Helfert could have made it!!! :D
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Yes, to me the bank its self wasn't an extremely tough shot but I think it was slightly deceptive for those of you thinkin it was a hanger. IMO it was because of the speed he had to play it. He knew that he would be on the wrong side of the table for the 7 if he rolled it in so he dug in and fired it to carom into the 7. The problem with that was it was a bit of a cut bank and those banks are much easier to play with medium speed and maybe even a bit of top. With the speed he had to play it at the ball was going to shorten more than he wanted and it was much tougher to judge.
 
Nostroke said:
I believe the bank was by far the easier shot. In fact that bank imo is the easiest bank in pool. I dont know how he missed it.
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I think the bank had a better chance of going as well, which Shane recognized. Also, the 7 was further away from the 6 than the OP notes (I think it was about a diamond to a diamond and a half down the cushion).

He missed the bank because that table, for whatever reason, was banking short at that time. He tried the bank twice more when the match was over and missed it short again both times.
 
I didn't see the shot, but from what is described, the bank is the right shot. If you make the bank, you should end up with a good shot at the next ball. If you play the carom, you don't really know where the 6 will wind up as you are concentrating on making the carom.
 
I also thought the 7 wasn't a sure thing. I'm not gonna call a carom that's more than 2 feet from the pocket.

I don't like banking but when it's the right shot, it's nice to be able to the make them. It did seem to be a deciding factor in this match, though I saw shane miss a kick or two, a jump, and a ball or two he's supposed to make (there was a critical 2 ball that he tried to force, like a foot from the pocket with minimal angle, that rattled).

Kickin, I can get you cuetable ready anytime, if you aren't out of patience. Just shoot me a PM.
 
jay helfert said:
The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!
Click to expand...

The 10-ball rules used at the Super Billiards Expo this year eliminated 2-way shots by giving Player B the option of passing the inning back to Player A after Player A missed a called shot. Although some people don't feel it's worth giving up 2-way shots to reduce the element of luck, many others -- including players -- praised those rules.

The WPA 10-ball rules used this past week, however, did not eliminate all 2-way shots. The type of shot discussed in this thread (taking a whack at making one of two balls) was out the window. But calling a shot while simultaneously playing the cue ball safe in case of a miss was still fine, because Player B did not have the option mentioned in the previous paragraph.

In the SVB situation discussed in this thread, I certainly see nothing wrong with requiring top-notch professionals to decide which ball they are going to try to pocket. Shane played some marvelous 10-ball in that tournament. And, who knows, he may even have benefited from the no-slop rules to a greater extent than some of his opponents because of the higher skill level at which he was playing. (In his first four matches on Friday, his aggregate score was 36-11!). But in his match with Van Corteza he made several blunders and lost. For the shot discussed here, he made his decision to shoot the 6-ball rather than the 7-ball or playing safe, and he missed. It wasn't the rules that cost him the match.
 
jay helfert said:
The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!
Click to expand...

Well, take the call rule away you might as well go back to 9-ball. What would the difference really be?
MULLY
 
Well I would like to see the layout as well or even better, the actual shot. I have to have a strong hunch that the op is wrong about the right shot selection.
 
atta boy Jay

jay helfert said:
The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!
Click to expand...

I don't mind playing call shot on 8-ball, but it's a whole different game. They wanna argue about taking luck out of the game. It's all non-sense in my opinion. All their gonna do, is take away a little excitement from the game, and make things less interesting for the spectators. {especially tv.} There is a little luck in all sports. Trust me, I know what it's like to lose a perfectly played match, because someone got lucky, and it sucks. But, if they start changing the rules, and calling kisses of balls, they might as well just play straight pool. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just my opinion.
 
Here is my best guess of what the table looked like. I can't remember where the 9 and 10 were, so I'm not even going to put them on the table. The 7-ball may have been slightly closer or slightly farther away from the cueball, but it was in that vicinity, and I'm almost positive it wasn't frozen. Nothing was tied up, nothing was preventing Shane from banking the 6 in the side, and if he did that with shape on the 7, he was out. Page 2 of the WEI table shows an approximation of his shot.

CueTable Help



I was also surprised at what Shane did here, but not because of which ball he called. I was surprised that he hit the cueball below center; he deliberately went flush into the 7-ball, and it almost looked like he was playing the 7 more than the 6. Perhaps he felt that he couldn't avoid hitting the 7, and if he was going to hit it he wanted to hit it flush. I can understand the logic, but if the 7 doesn't push the 8 over, then you're kicking or banking the 8 on your next shot. In his case, the 7 did push the 8 over a bit, but he still wouldn't have had a hanger even if he had made the 6. From the angle of the camera, which was not ideal obviously, it looked to me like he could avoid the 7 altogether and bring whitey back toward the center of the table with either high-left (3 rails) or high-right (2 rails). I just didn't see any advantage to running into the 7 if it could have been avoided.

Aaron
 
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Missed 6 ball bank

The 6 ball he missed banked extremely short. Diamond tables bank short to begin with, but within an inch or so of the side pocket facing they are even worse. The facing reelly stiffens that last inch or two of the rail before the side hole and it results in an very short bank.

That's why he shot it good several times after the match and still missed. Somebody has to get the rails on Diamond right. Nothing banks like a Gold Crown to me, but that is of course what I have and play on mostly. When I play on a Diamond I just overhit all the banks and use more running english off the rail and those 2 things can be enough to help, but it never feels correct to me. The short angle banks are the most problematic, wider angles play more like I'm used to. To me it seems most pronounced on their 7 foot tables, maybe less distance for the throw of the rail to help move the OB over.
 
master9baller said:
The 6 ball he missed banked extremely short.
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This is probably a memory failure on my part, but I was thinking the one he missed in the match went long, and then his subsequent practice shots went short. Can't remember for sure.

Aaron
 
satman said:
I don't mind playing call shot on 8-ball, but it's a whole different game. They wanna argue about taking luck out of the game. It's all non-sense in my opinion. All their gonna do, is take away a little excitement from the game, and make things less interesting for the spectators. {especially tv.} There is a little luck in all sports. Trust me, I know what it's like to lose a perfectly played match, because someone got lucky, and it sucks. But, if they start changing the rules, and calling kisses of balls, they might as well just play straight pool. I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just my opinion.
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It is just my opinion but the call shots rules are rules that the professional players themselves wanted. THEY wanted to take the luck out of the matches. It really is like cutting off your nose to spite your face if you catch my drift.

I agree that a little luck, adds some needed excitement to the game. The jump shot is also good for the game because of the excitement factor.


JoeyA
 
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