SVB's bad decision cost him dearly

[Kickin' Chicken]

First, let me say that I wish I could use the cuetable feature so I can show the scenario for all to see. I did read the cuetable how-to sticky which directed me to the cuetable site to download their free software but when I go there, I am taken to a cuetable tutorial and faq narrated by Gail G. I could not figure out how to download and use it but please know, I tried. Maybe someone who also watched the SVB - Corteza semi-final could post the table and scenario I am referring to.

Anyway, I believe it was the hill-hill game but maybe it was the one just before hill-hill - whichever, it was the end for Shane.

Shane was on the 6 ball which laid maybe an inch to the left of the left side pocket; it wasn't frozen but was fairly close to the cushion. Just to the left of the 6, maybe three or four inches up the rail was the 7. Further up the same rail sat the 8 ball, near, but just outside the corner pocket, making for a LARGE and inviting pocket, indeed. The cue ball was in the vicinity of the opposite side pocket maybe twelve inches out toward the middle of the table.

Just as soon as the cue ball stopped rolling from the previous shot, I saw, SVB had a two way shot here: bank the 6 cross-side (maybe an 85% shot) while letting the cue ball go naturally into the 7 ball heading toward the G-I-A-N-T corner pocket that featured the insurance 8 ball sitting perfectly for the nudge on the 7 if it was needed (this probably a 98%) shot. Scott Frost even mentioned something about it then he and Billy went into some discussion over illegally pocketed (non-called) balls. I believe that if Shane wanted to he could have called just the 7 ball, contacted the six first so it's legal and he would have kept shooting with four easy balls remaining for the win.

Well, to my atonishment, Shane called the six cross-side, missed that, but as I, and I'm sure many other viewers fully expected, whitey went into the seven sending it straight down the rail right into the corner pocket.

Please tell me that I have the rules right, that as long as he hit the 6 first he could have simply called that easy seven in the corner and kept shooting, right?

So, IMHO, his decision to go for the seemingly lower percentage cross-side bank on the 6 rather than the easier billiard on the 7 into the corner cost him the chance to advance to the Championship match.

Does anyone disagree?

Again, so sorry for not being able to illustrate this with the cuetable feature. I'm sure I'll figure that out soon. What a nice resource it is.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[AtLarge]

It wasn't the hill/hill game, but it was close to the end. Shane missed a different bank in the hill/hill game. But you are correct about the rules.

With the rules in effect, he had to call either the 6 or the 7 (or he could have played safe). He called the bank and missed, so he did not get to continue despite making the 7.

Incidentally, did you notice that he tried the 6-ball bank shot a couple more times after the match ended, and he missed both times. Maybe it wasn't a 90% shot!

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

It wasn't the hill/hill game, but it was close to the end. Shane missed a different bank in the hill/hill game. But you are correct about the rules.

With the rules in effect, he had to call either the 6 or the 7 (or he could have played safe). He called the bank and missed, so he did not get to continue despite making the 7.

Incidentally, did you notice that he tried the 6-ball bank shot a couple more times after the match ended, and he missed both times. Maybe it wasn't a 90% shot!

Yes sir, I sure did notice. And he seemed increasingly more pissed each time he tried, I thought it was three attempts. BTW, I do appreciate the fact that right after losing the match he went back to the table to try to reshoot that bank. Never too good to learn.

Incidently, very uncharacteristicly for Shane, during this match he missed a straight in close shot like he was looking past it to the next shot and also, he butchered a relatively easy jump attempt where he didn't make it over the obstructing ball. He's usually a brilliant jumper.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[12squared]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the rule is that you must also call whether or not a ball kisses off another ball. I'm unclear on this point, but this is my understanding based on playing in a qualifier. If this is the case, the 8 ball wasn't as big as you think it was because SVB would have had to call it in clean or off the ball by the pocket - he would have had to choose one. This may have been a determining factor. ????

Dave

 

[Celtic]

There was a cross bank he played on a 1-ball playing shape on a 3 near the lower left hand corner. That wsa IMO the easiest shot he had to win the match. It was a far easier bank then the 6-ball he missed later, he shot it quickly, too quickly, and missed. The 6 was a decievingly hard shot. I am guessing that the cut he put on the 6 imparted more spin on the 6 then he thought it would and the left hand spin on the 6 from the cut caused the bank to go short.

 

[dr9ball]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the rule is that you must also call whether or not a ball kisses off another ball. I'm unclear on this point, but this is my understanding based on playing in a qualifier. If this is the case, the 8 ball wasn't as big as you think it was because SVB would have had to call it in clean or off the ball by the pocket - he would have had to choose one. This may have been a determining factor. ????

Dave

I have never heard of this outside of bar pool where you have to call the ball off another ball. But tournament rules vary a lot from place to place. At the SBE in March when a player missed a shot and got lousy shape the opposing player could make them shoot again. I didn't see the pass back option in this last 10 ball tourney.

 

[Celtic]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the rule is that you must also call whether or not a ball kisses off another ball. I'm unclear on this point, but this is my understanding based on playing in a qualifier. If this is the case, the 8 ball wasn't as big as you think it was because SVB would have had to call it in clean or off the ball by the pocket - he would have had to choose one. This may have been a determining factor. ????

Dave

You are 100% wrong. You never have to call kisses, banks, or anything else. You need to call a specific ball in a specific pocket and it does not matter how it gets there.

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I remember that shot and I remember Scott mentioning that the 7 could possibly go. However, I do not think that it was a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination. It was a sure thing that the cue ball would hit the 7-ball, but I personally didn't think that it was over a 50% chance of going in.

I think that Shane missed about 3 banks that I can recall, and in my opinion, those missed bank shots cost him the match.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I remember that shot and I remember Scott mentioning that the 7 could possibly go. However, I do not think that it was a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination. It was a sure thing that the cue ball would hit the 7-ball, but I personally didn't think that it was over a 50% chance of going in.

I think that Shane missed about 3 banks that I can recall, and in my opinion, those missed bank shots cost him the match.

I wish there was a way to see the layout again, or even better, the actual shot. The 7 was practically a lock to go in that corner pocket. Remember, the 8 ball was sitting perfectly next to the corner pocket so even if the 7 started to run out from the rail it would have received a kiss in.

Any way we could see that again?

Best,
Brian kc

 

[TheConArtist]

This goes to show you practice all aspects of the game, ESP banks. Shane. Even went back to the table and tried to bank the 6 ball and still missed it twice. I personally thought he should of have played a safe instead the bank in the last game, but of you recall he missed a almost str8 in one ball in the side also after winning a safety battle

 

[jay helfert]

The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!

 

[Poolplaya9]

Well, to my atonishment, Shane called the six cross-side, missed that, but as I, and I'm sure many other viewers fully expected, whitey went into the seven sending it straight down the rail right into the corner pocket.

Please tell me that I have the rules right, that as long as he hit the 6 first he could have simply called that easy seven in the corner and kept shooting, right?

So, IMHO, his decision to go for the seemingly lower percentage cross-side bank on the 6 rather than the easier billiard on the 7 into the corner cost him the chance to advance to the Championship match.

Does anyone disagree?

I disagree. In the rules they were playing by, Shane had to call one ball or the other, the 6 or the 7, but could not call both of them. Where I disagree with you is in your conclusion that the 7 ball was a higher percentage shot in this situation. I think that for Shane the 6 ball was somewhere around a 90% shot, and the 7 ball was somewhere around a 65% shot. For any other skill level of player, I would still also think that the 6 was an easier shot than the 7. He made the right choice. You have to play the percentages.

Count me in among those that hate these rules. I hate the occasional slopped ball or accidental safety as much as the next guy, but I hate not having the ability to use the skill of the two way shot even more. Add in the fact that rolls are going to be exactly even for everybody over time anyway, but that not everybody has the same ability for the strategy and execution of the two way shots, and what you are left with is the removal of some of the skill from the game to correct an occasional luck factor that didn't any correction to begin with.

 

[Nostroke]

First, let me say that I wish I could use the cuetable feature so I can show the scenario for all to see. I did read the cuetable how-to sticky which directed me to the cuetable site to download their free software but when I go there, I am taken to a cuetable tutorial and faq narrated by Gail G. I could not figure out how to download and use it but please know, I tried. Maybe someone who also watched the SVB - Corteza semi-final could post the table and scenario I am referring to.

Anyway, I believe it was the hill-hill game but maybe it was the one just before hill-hill - whichever, it was the end for Shane.

Shane was on the 6 ball which laid maybe an inch to the left of the left side pocket; it wasn't frozen but was fairly close to the cushion. Just to the left of the 6, maybe three or four inches up the rail was the 7. Further up the same rail sat the 8 ball, near, but just outside the corner pocket, making for a LARGE and inviting pocket, indeed. The cue ball was in the vicinity of the opposite side pocket maybe twelve inches out toward the middle of the table.

Just as soon as the cue ball stopped rolling from the previous shot, I saw, SVB had a two way shot here: bank the 6 cross-side (maybe an 85% shot) while letting the cue ball go naturally into the 7 ball heading toward the G-I-A-N-T corner pocket that featured the insurance 8 ball sitting perfectly for the nudge on the 7 if it was needed (this probably a 98%) shot. Scott Frost even mentioned something about it then he and Billy went into some discussion over illegally pocketed (non-called) balls. I believe that if Shane wanted to he could have called just the 7 ball, contacted the six first so it's legal and he would have kept shooting with four easy balls remaining for the win.

Well, to my atonishment, Shane called the six cross-side, missed that, but as I, and I'm sure many other viewers fully expected, whitey went into the seven sending it straight down the rail right into the corner pocket.

Please tell me that I have the rules right, that as long as he hit the 6 first he could have simply called that easy seven in the corner and kept shooting, right?

So, IMHO, his decision to go for the seemingly lower percentage cross-side bank on the 6 rather than the easier billiard on the 7 into the corner cost him the chance to advance to the Championship match.

Does anyone disagree?

Again, so sorry for not being able to illustrate this with the cuetable feature. I'm sure I'll figure that out soon. What a nice resource it is.

Best,
Brian kc

I believe the bank was by far the easier shot. In fact that bank imo is the easiest bank in pool. I dont know how he missed it.

 

[cyrex]

svb

I watched quite a few matches of Shane's matches and he missed several banks and several jump shots. Very uncharacteristic of him. IMHO I think since switching to Cuetec he hasn't been playing his normal game. His stroke power is not there, his jumps aren't there, and his comfort level seems to be off.

I'm not saying anything bad about his gear. But perhaps it's just going to take more time for him to make adjustments to his cues. He's been playing with the same crooked beat up cue for years.

 

[markpatrick]

good point

The above illustrates the problem with "call shot" Ten Ball. You can no longer play two way shots which are such an important part of the game. It's almost like they are taking the cue out of the player's hands. I say LET THEM PLAY POOL, and yes even get lucky once in a while!

For what it is worth.

I agree.

 

[poolhustler]

I remember that shot. It was a very critical game for SVB to win. I thought he would play safe and lock LVC down. He surprised me by playing the bank and even more surprised when he missed it. It wasn't a difficult bank shot. Jay Helfert could have made it!!!

 

[12squared]

You are 100% wrong. You never have to call kisses, banks, or anything else. You need to call a specific ball in a specific pocket and it does not matter how it gets there.

Thanks for the clarification. In the qualifier I played in, we had to call our kisses, not just the pocket. It cost me a game because I feathered a ball in front of the pocket but called it clean. I thought it was a bad rule, but that's how we played so I did not argue.

Dave

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I disagree. In the rules they were playing by, Shane had to call one ball or the other, the 6 or the 7, but could not call both of them. Where I disagree with you is in your conclusion that the 7 ball was a higher percentage shot in this situation. I think that for Shane the 6 ball was somewhere around a 90% shot, and the 7 ball was somewhere around a 65% shot. For any other skill level of player, I would still also think that the 6 was an easier shot than the 7. He made the right choice. You have to play the percentages.

I do understand that he had to call one ball, not both. I maintain, however, that with the layout he had he should have called the 7 in the corner. That was a big, fat, happy billiard just waiting to happen. And whether intentional or not, it did go.

So, I will respectfully disagree that the 6 was a better percentage play. And, believe me, there is no bigger proponent for playing the percentages than me.

Did anyone else in AzB land besides me see the 7 as a better play? Hello....is this thing on? :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc

 

[Mikjary]

I do understand that he had to call one ball, not both. I maintain, however, that with the layout he had he should have called the 7 in the corner. That was a big, fat, happy billiard just waiting to happen. And whether intentional or not, it did go.

So, I will respectfully disagree that the 6 was a better percentage play. And, believe me, there is no bigger proponent for playing the percentages than me.

Did anyone else in AzB land besides me see the 7 as a better play? Hello....is this thing on? :grin-square:

Best,
Brian kc

I'm not second guessing SVB, he's a monster. I do think that he jumped on the shot a little too quickly, though. A walk around the table might've changed his shot and/or his call.

I couldn't really see the angle on the 6 ball, but it looked like he was on top of it enough to make him have to avoid the double kiss. He obviously underestimated how tough a shot it was and took the flyer.

 

[jay helfert]

I remember that shot. It was a very critical game for SVB to win. I thought he would play safe and lock LVC down. He surprised me by playing the bank and even more surprised when he missed it. It wasn't a difficult bank shot. Jay Helfert could have made it!!!

Even a caveman could have made it!