MAN OF THE DECADE (pool)

[JB Cases]

Well, I can think of several reasons that a Hall of Fame vote would not be left to the forum posters. Such as their lack of proximity to the actual working of the billiard industry. One of them just came on here and lambasted the BCA for not inducting a player into the Hall of Fame. This is false. Last year Johnny Archer and Allison Fisher were inducted.

I didn't suggest that the BCA's Hall of Fame should be voted on by the forum members. My suggestion is for the forum members to create their own Hall of Fame and vote on who should be in it and for what. Why do we need the BCA to tell us who to honor?

So, if you guys want to do this, go ahead, but leave AZB out of it. We took a lot of time, did a lot of study, and came up with the right guy.

So should we forum members take this to mean that you will actively censor any attempt for the community to vote on their own Hall of Fame?

This has nothing to do with your awards that you want to hand out. It's a fan based vote like American Idol that has zero to do with AZBilliards.com

I mean the idea can be taken to another board but frankly if it's done here then it's just one more thing that this board's community has that others don't. No one is asking you or Mike to participate. In fact I don't want you to as you will probably be nominated in several categories.

Yes, Mark and Greg and Pat were all on the short list. But none of them step outside of their own business interests to serve the game the way that Ivan does. His spare time is non-existent due to the demands that the BCA puts on him. And all of you who wish to slam the guy who directs sponsorship money into more corners of the game than anyone else, go ahead, but you are shooting arrows into the golden goose. This criticism looks downright petty and exhibits the negativity that has helped the sport get to the low level that it enjoys today.

I slammed the BCA. And I will continue to slam the BCA. The BCA has completely failed the sport of billiards and completely failed it's membership. I support Ivan Lee as a person, I think he's a great guy, I think he's a great industry veteran. I have no idea how much sponsorship he personally puts into the sport. I am sure that the decision to sponsor events does not rest on his shoulders alone. I personally however feel that he inherited a messy situation with the BCA and that he has not been able to clean it up and because of that deserves no such award for anything to do with the BCA.

Instead of slamming the leaders of the game with opinions that sprout from a lack of knowing what is going on it might be better to jump on the ship and help steer. But first, read the charts and know where the reefs are.

Sorry Jerry but the BCA is not the ship to be on. People are tired of the direction it's gone and tired of the direction it's headed. Time to scuttle it and build a new one.

Now, I have no intention of defending this honor any further. We did the homework, we got the right guy. If you disagree, fine, but some of the opinions expressed thus far are obviously from those who are not close to the real world of pool.

You know full well that any choice you made would have been criticized by someone for whatever reason. It's your award and you are the only one who should care how you arrived at that choice. I congratulate Ivan for being recognized at all just not for the same reasons you list.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

If I were you guys. I would trust the people that made their decision, based on what they know, and have dealt, with as to who has been given such a prestigious award. They've come to praise this person, not to bury him.

If you don't like it, hand out your own awards.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Well, I can think of several reasons that a Hall of Fame vote would not be left to the forum posters. Such as their lack of proximity to the actual working of the billiard industry. One of them just came on here and lambasted the BCA for not inducting a player into the Hall of Fame. This is false. Last year Johnny Archer and Allison Fisher were inducted.

So, if you guys want to do this, go ahead, but leave AZB out of it. We took a lot of time, did a lot of study, and came up with the right guy. Yes, Mark and Greg and Pat were all on the short list. But none of them step outside of their own business interests to serve the game the way that Ivan does. His spare time is non-existent due to the demands that the BCA puts on him. And all of you who wish to slam the guy who directs sponsorship money into more corners of the game than anyone else, go ahead, but you are shooting arrows into the golden goose. This criticism looks downright petty and exhibits the negativity that has helped the sport get to the low level that it enjoys today.

Instead of slamming the leaders of the game with opinions that sprout from a lack of knowing what is going on it might be better to jump on the ship and help steer. But first, read the charts and know where the reefs are.

Now, I have no intention of defending this honor any further. We did the homework, we got the right guy. If you disagree, fine, but some of the opinions expressed thus far are obviously from those who are not close to the real world of pool.

Jerry,
You're one of our very favorite people in pool. (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=98109)

But please let me know what men's pro tournament the BCA sponsors? And who will be the inductee of this year's BCA trade-show / Expo? As far as I know, the BCA did cancel their single yearly men's pro event. Am I wrong about that?

And also, as far as I've heard, there is no H.O.F. inductee this year. Jerry, obviously, I know about Archer & Allison being inducted last year. I keep stats on many things pool related and I assuredly added those two to the list.

In the Sept 2008 issue of Billiard's Digest, Mike Panozzo, one person who "is in close to the real world of pool", on page 14 devotes a whole page to a story entitled "BCA TIGHTENS PURSE STRINGS". In that piece, he laments the GenerationPool.com (formerly the BCA Open 9 Ball and formerly the EnjoyPool.com. 9 Ball) tournament is to be CANCELLED. That is not to make us pool fans both sad and puzzled as well? So what men's pro tournament does the BCA offer for it's pro players??? They are the governing body of pool in America, are they not?

As far as the H.O.F. inductees, former BCA President Sean Cummings himself stated the BCA has plans to do away with inducting additional H.O.F. members. In the next to the last paragraph, cummings is quoted as saying "These decisions are simply necessary to preserve the ability to promote our industry over the long term."

Huh??? Terminating sponsorship of the ONLY Pro Men's event they have and NOT adding to the H.O.F. will "promote" our sport over the long term? So Jerry, if we fans question that, we are not in the know about pool? Really?

My bottom line is simple. There was no sponsored BCA men's pro tournament in 2009. Which one is our "governing body of American pool" sponsoring this year? Again, none that I know of.

Now the tricky part...IF there is an induction this year at the U.S. Open, won't it again be because of the pool writers and pool publications pooling money together so THEY can pay for the induction of any new member into the BCA H.O.F.?

In other words, the BCA wanted to curtail that tradition, but thanks to Mr.Panozzo and Billiard's Digest, and most probably Jerry Forsyth and Tom Shaw along with Pool & Billiard magazine, Jay Helfert and other voters on the H.O.F. Committee, THAT is the only reason we can have further inductees. That's how Allison & Johnny were able to make it. That's the one great thing that the BCA did that I will give credit to them for...they let people who knew and loved pool be the voters, and not just allow anyone who rented a booth to get a vote.

Why wouldn't we want better conditions for pool in America? Why should we be happy and celebrate that our "governing body of pool" wants to stop adding worthy members to the Hall of Fame? And the fact that they dropped the one and only men's pro event that they sponsored?

Not to twist the knife too deeply, but how should we pool fans feel about this.....The BCA held the U.S. Open 14.1 Championships from 1966 until 1977. Then, from 1978 thru 1982, they stopped the venerated U.S. Open.
It was held again in 1983, but from 1984 thru 1988, nothing. Another one was held in 1989 then nothing again until 1992. After 1993, nothing until 2000. It took another pool body, outside the BCA, to renew the discipline of 14.1 in America. So the BCA can't say that 14.1 is not popular, as was their original reason for holding their "annual" event.

Jerry, I still and always will have much respect for you. But I think that you under-estimate the depth of love and devotion many pool fans have for our great sport. You're not the only one, my friend, with strong opinions.

 

[JB Cases]

If I were you guys. I would trust the people that made their decision, based on what they know, and have dealt, with as to who has been given such a prestigious award. They've come to praise this person, not to bury him.

If you don't like it, hand out your own awards.

That is exactly what some of us are advocating. I think it's time for some people's choice awards in billiards.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Why can't we voice our heartfelt concerns?

If I were you guys. I would trust the people that made their decision, based on what they know, and have dealt, with as to who has been given such a prestigious award. They've come to praise this person, not to bury him.

If you don't like it, hand out your own awards.

Tom,
Nobody is trying to "bury" Mr Simonis. However, HE is in charge of the ship now. The care, responsibility and the direction of our beloved sport has much to do now with HIS decisions. He wanted this job, so let's see him turn it around. I'm rooting, pulling and hoping hard for him to succeed wildly. Because as it is, the BCA has a very dismal reputation, at best.

To who much has been given, much will be rquired. Just because he is in a certain position now does not mean we should not be asking any questions or voicing any concerns. Let's be real honest here, he has a lot of work in front of him.

I have a history here at AZB of NOT bashing anyone. For me to say the things I've said took a lot.


****ATTENTION**** Edited at 2:56 PM Yankee Time (EST) to correct Mr. Lee's last name. My esteemed friend JoeyA sent me a little note that I have him as Mr. Simonis! Aih-Yi-Yi! I'm losing my mind. Maybe Jerry Forsyth is right! Thanks Joey, don't hold it against me Jerry and Mr Lee, I wish you all the very best in your future endeavers at the helm of the BCA. As Joey also mentioned, this thread was intended to celebrate your being honored as the Pool Man of the Decade. None of us want to detract from that prestigious award. Again, congrats to you Sir!

 

[Nostroke]

We did the homework, we got the right guy.

I didnt even think the Pope was infallible, a little less you.:smile:

 

[JB Cases]

I have just registered the domain www.billiardshalloffame.org (don't go there yet) - if we get something going I will glady donate the domain and webhosting - covering all fees associated with it to host the virtual people's choice Billiards Hall of Fame. I expect it will be a volunteer effort to maintain it. As to physical inductions and awards I will commit Sterling Gaming to providing some kind of unique physical award and in-person inductions will need to be developed later somehow if that's what we want.

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

Terry,

You state that there is no HOF induction this year. That is not so. I am on the HOF committee and there most certainly will be inductions this year. The inductions, as last year, will be at the US Open.

Then you say: "Not to twist the knife too deeply, but how should we pool fans feel about this.....The BCA held the U.S. Open 14.1 Championships from 1966 until 1977. Then, from 1978 thru 1982, they stopped the venerated U.S. Open.
It was held again in 1983, but from 1984 thru 1988, nothing. Another one was held in 1989 then nothing again until 1992. After 1993, nothing until 2000. It took another pool body, outside the BCA, to renew the discipline of 14.1 in America. So the BCA can't say that 14.1 is not popular, as was their original reason for holding their "annual" event."

You are correct, the BCA stopped the 14.1 in 1977. Why? Because the PPPA (the men's player organization at the time) decided to boycott the event and hold their own 14.1 championship on the same date. The PPPA boasted a $50,000 prize fund but actually paid out less than $20,000 and they caused both their own event and the BCA event to fail. After 1983 the TV networks said "no more 14.1. We watched Lassiter and Balsis (I think it was Balsis, I know it was Lassiter) play safeties for 20 minutes and we do not need this anymore." 14.1 was again tried in the late 90's in New York, sponsored by Blatt Billiards, and again was a failure for the sponsors and was not repeated.

So, now outside entities have struggled to put on 14.1 events. But I think we CAN say that 14.1 is not popular because last year a promoter as strong as Dragon was unable to come up with even $25,000 in added money sponsorship. And we have to have the 14.1 World Championships in poolroom. So folks are not rushing in to sponsor 14.1.

The BCA has suffered along with others in this crap economy, but more than most because pool is reliant upon discretionary income and it is easy for folks to not send in their money to the BCA. Now they are turning the corner and there is a lot of momentum in the BCA to restart the BCA Open and other programs. But none of this can be done without money. When folks start buying tables and cues and balls and chalk again you can expect the BCA to be able to once again promote the pro side of the game the way they wish to do.

 

[tom mcgonagle]

I'm all for hearing and listening to everyone's opinion.I have many of my own.

It's true the BCA has never really taken into consideration the opinions of the players. Why should they? They originally were a group of business men.

We never gave them, The BCA, a good reason to listen to the opinion of the players. In in a lot of cases they did well in spite of the the players, not because of them.

I'm guilty of knocking many things and people I felt were only in it for themselves. Maybe I could have been nicer but I felt I was right at the time.

I'm the President of The New England Pool and Billiard Hall of Fame. I'm self appointed and many of my decisions have been questioned. That's ok with me. Ask all the questions you want. We used to have a committee. Two or three of us did something the rest of them took the credit. I can't work this way.

I think we should have a voice but it better be a strong one that can get things done. Some players have had chances, to help the game, but they chose to help themselves.

I think we need to look at the game as if we are working on an old transmission. It definitely needs rebuilding but the essential parts are still the same.

Just my opinion.

 

[JB Cases]

The BCA has suffered along with others in this crap economy, but more than most because pool is reliant upon discretionary income and it is easy for folks to not send in their money to the BCA. Now they are turning the corner and there is a lot of momentum in the BCA to restart the BCA Open and other programs. But none of this can be done without money. When folks start buying tables and cues and balls and chalk again you can expect the BCA to be able to once again promote the pro side of the game the way they wish to do.

How do you feel about the BCA's decision to allow other sports and activities to sell their wares at the BCA show?

I had this same conversation with Ivan Lee three or four years ago.

Does it make sense to you that people who make ping pong tables, video poker, poker tables, video games, shuffle board, huge virtual golf simulators, etc.... should be allowed to set up and pitch attendees on their activities?

When a billiard store proprietor shows up they have a finite amount of money to spend. When a room owner shows up they have a finite amount of money to spend.

So please tell me how it helps the billiard industry if the people making ping pong tables manage to convince a billiard store owners that he should bring in ten models of ping pong tables which means less pool tables on the floor? How does it help the billiard industry if the people selling heads-up video poker machines get the bulk of the pool room owner's budget and he puts in five new poker machines rather than invests in billiard equipment?

What sense is there in allowing these people a platform to draw billiards people away from buying and selling billiard equipment?

I'd really like to know your thoughts on this subject.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Terry,

You state that there is no HOF induction this year. That is not so. I am on the HOF committee and there most certainly will be inductions this year. The inductions, as last year, will be at the US Open.

Then you say: "Not to twist the knife too deeply, but how should we pool fans feel about this.....The BCA held the U.S. Open 14.1 Championships from 1966 until 1977. Then, from 1978 thru 1982, they stopped the venerated U.S. Open.
It was held again in 1983, but from 1984 thru 1988, nothing. Another one was held in 1989 then nothing again until 1992. After 1993, nothing until 2000. It took another pool body, outside the BCA, to renew the discipline of 14.1 in America. So the BCA can't say that 14.1 is not popular, as was their original reason for holding their "annual" event."

You are correct, the BCA stopped the 14.1 in 1977. Why? Because the PPPA (the men's player organization at the time) decided to boycott the event and hold their own 14.1 championship on the same date. The PPPA boasted a $50,000 prize fund but actually paid out less than $20,000 and they caused both their own event and the BCA event to fail. After 1983 the TV networks said "no more 14.1. We watched Lassiter and Balsis (I think it was Balsis, I know it was Lassiter) play safeties for 20 minutes and we do not need this anymore." 14.1 was again tried in the late 90's in New York, sponsored by Blatt Billiards, and again was a failure for the sponsors and was not repeated.

So, now outside entities have struggled to put on 14.1 events. But I think we CAN say that 14.1 is not popular because last year a promoter as strong as Dragon was unable to come up with even $25,000 in added money sponsorship. And we have to have the 14.1 World Championships in poolroom. So folks are not rushing in to sponsor 14.1.

The BCA has suffered along with others in this crap economy, but more than most because pool is reliant upon discretionary income and it is easy for folks to not send in their money to the BCA. Now they are turning the corner and there is a lot of momentum in the BCA to restart the BCA Open and other programs. But none of this can be done without money. When folks start buying tables and cues and balls and chalk again you can expect the BCA to be able to once again promote the pro side of the game the way they wish to do.

Jerry,
I still have an original PPPA patch! Margo and them fellas had the right idea but they went about it the wrong way.

Lassiter was playing Murphy when ABC decided to dump pool.

I am just one of many, many pool fans who are looking for bigger and better things from the "new" BCA. I'm not hoping they fail, I'm hoping they succeed greatly. History, however, is not on their side.

If you can ever believe it, you and me and most every other pool fan are on the same side. Wanting pool to be held in a higher esteem and with more funding. If Lumber-Jacking, Spelling Bee's, Ping Pong and other such activities can get television sponsorship, there's no reason to expect more from those in charge of what happens to American pool.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Jerry and Terry,

Ivan Lee is a great choice for Man of the Decade. IMO he is right up there with Greg Sullivan and Mark Griffin.

I am hard pressed to see how Mr Lee has directly spent more out of pocket money than Greg or Mark and have affected more USA pool players than Greg or Mark.

Maybe I am wrong.. wouldn't be the first time.. but wouldn't the numbers of USA players benefiting from the DCC and BCAPL and CSI promoted events out weigh any of Mr. Lee's contributions?

True, Mr. Lee does contribute to other industry areas outside of the tournament and league venues, but is that what is the deserving factor in Man of the Decade?

Maybe I am missing the contributions that Mr. Lee is sponsoring outside of the USA and specifically the WPA. If that is the case, then I will bow to the world wide presence of the Simonis contributions to the world wide industry.

I know nothing of the pool politics of what happens outside of the USA pool related other than what AZBilliards and the WPA releases to us USA pool players.

But, from my impressions of some of the Worldly WPA presence and Simonis I am glad the USA has men like Greg and Mark.

IMO the BCA and AZBilliards can keep Mr. Lee and the WPA. If it is the lager scope that has to be considered rather than the ever present pool player... I've had it with the POWERS trying to tell US (all USA pool players) what to do and when and how much.

Us little people will survive and we really do not care about huge sponsors and tv events. That is only good for the UPPER crust.

We just want great amateur tournaments with good payouts. How difficult is that to understand?

Pool cannot compete with the the professional sports in the USA. There is no way pool can compete with MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, NASCAR, NHL or even college sports. There is too much money being swallowed up already.. there isn't any for POOL. When will people realize that?

 

[Jerry Forsyth]

How do you feel about the BCA's decision to allow other sports and activities to sell their wares at the BCA show?

I had this same conversation with Ivan Lee three or four years ago.

Does it make sense to you that people who make ping pong tables, video poker, poker tables, video games, shuffle board, huge virtual golf simulators, etc.... should be allowed to set up and pitch attendees on their activities?

When a billiard store proprietor shows up they have a finite amount of money to spend. When a room owner shows up they have a finite amount of money to spend.

So please tell me how it helps the billiard industry if the people making ping pong tables manage to convince a billiard store owners that he should bring in ten models of ping pong tables which means less pool tables on the floor? How does it help the billiard industry if the people selling heads-up video poker machines get the bulk of the pool room owner's budget and he puts in five new poker machines rather than invests in billiard equipment?

What sense is there in allowing these people a platform to draw billiards people away from buying and selling billiard equipment?

I'd really like to know your thoughts on this subject.

JB,

OK. Not that I have ever given this subject deep thought, but I do not walk into many stores these days that are solely dedicated to pool tables. They are more game stores or recreational centers that sell spas, video games, all sorts of stuff. I do not know this for a fact but I would imagine that these other vendors are at the show in response to requests for them to be there from the BCA membership, the folks who own the stores. I do not think they would be there if their presence were not requested. But, again, I do not know the history of this. And, please, let's not hijack this thread again. It has already been around the world and back.

If you think the show is so bad, why are you there with one of the largest booths each year? It must work pretty well for you to repeat that expense year after year.

 

[nathandumoulin]

Yet another thread that clearly showcases why our game struggles: Lack of community and respect.

Jerry and Mike made their pick. They have their reasons. Now how about we respect them for it? After all, it was THEIR vote, THEIR award, and THEIR site.

Sure, it's possible that there may have been one or two people who some feel may have deserved the vote, but does it really matter? On top of that, how many of you get to see the inner workings of the industry on a regular basis? Hell, I work in the industry, and even I am not qualified or educated enough to make a vote. Not even close. And yet forum members are?

I hate to say it, but this thread is a clear cut case of forum members acting like total nits.

Yes, I said it. Nits.

Ivan worked hard. How about we show him some respect and acknowledge his efforts. All this *****ing is only denying him the respect and appreciation that he deserves.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Yet another thread that clearly showcases why our game struggles: Lack of community and respect.

Jerry and Mike made their pick. They have their reasons. Now how about we respect them for it? After all, it was THEIR vote, THEIR award, and THEIR site.

Sure, it's possible that there may have been one or two people who some feel may have deserved the vote, but does it really matter? On top of that, how many of you get to see the inner workings of the industry on a regular basis? Hell, I work in the industry, and even I am not qualified or educated enough to make a vote. Not even close. And yet forum members are?

I hate to say it, but this thread is a clear cut case of forum members acting like total nits.

Yes, I said it. Nits.

Ivan worked hard. How about we show him some respect and acknowledge his efforts. All this *****ing is only denying him the respect and appreciation that he deserves.

I agree with you, I have seen Simonis all over the place as far as being a sponsor but do not know much more then that but trust Mike and Jerrys choice for sure. Congrats! :smile:

 

[Terry Ardeno]

He called me a nit...he called me a nit not. (Repeat several times)

Jerry and Mike made their pick. They have their reasons. Now how about we respect them for it? After all, it was THEIR vote, THEIR award, and THEIR site.

I hate to say it, but this thread is a clear cut case of forum members acting like total nits.

Yes, I said it. Nits.

Ivan worked hard. How about we show him some respect and acknowledge his efforts. All this *****ing is only denying him the respect and appreciation that he deserves.

Nits? Really?

Nathan, hows about you go back and re-read all of my posts in this thread.
I challenge you to point out, show me or quote anything that I wrote that disparaged Mr Ivan Lee in any way.

My complaints are with the BCA. Without rehashing them all again here, re-read my posts and specifically pay attention to the part that they (the BCA) sponsors NO PRO MEN'S POOL TOURNAMENTS. As our "governing body", some of us are hopeful that they can get back into helping the pro players in America.

I have the greatest respect for Jerry and Mike and they both know that from the numerous times I've thanked and praised them over the years for the multiple ways they've helped pool and for the work done in providing this site. Just because we disagree with one choice they've made should not mean one thing other than we have differing opinions.

If you re-read the posts here, the beef is with the BCA, which has gone backwards as far as promoting men's pool in America. Blame it on anything you like, but that is an irrefutable fact.

Just so you get it clear this time, congrats to Mr Lee for this award and for being selected for this nice honor.

That said, he has a lot of work ahead of him. He is, after all, in charge of and responsible for the decisions that come from the BCA now, right? So we should be seeing some great changes for the better any time now, right? The BCA will get back to not relying on the voting members of the H.O.F. committee to fund their once a year H.O.F. banquet. And they'll soon have a nice big pro event for the men like the now defunct BCA Open 9 Ball Championship once was.

In closing for now Nathan, my idea of a "nit" is either someone who thinks he can play better than he does, or else is one of these young type guys who like to hold their beer glasses up in the air and whoop and holler anytime a camera is on them. Or someone who, when doing commentary on a pool match only talks about how drunk they were, are, or are going to be soon. There's a time and place for most things, but when someone is commenting on something as important as a pool match, well, they should comment on the match and the players, not themselves. Just a pet peeve of mine.

I've only seen or know of a very few "nits" on AZB. Still, they're here.

Lastly Nathan, I want to thank YOU for helping sponsor the live-streams that you've helped out in the past. That kind of stuff is noted and appreciated by....dare I say it..."nits" like me and JBCases!

 

[nathandumoulin]

Terry,

My point is that although Ivan may not be perfect, squabbling over BCA issues is hardly the way to show appreciation. The fact remains that Ivan is one of the industry main supporters. That's what this honor is all about.

Imagine a birthday party where all the guests didn't bring gifts. Instead, they all show up and sit around and discuss all the birthday boys failings, and how he could be a better person. Maybe even tell him that the party would be more deserving for someone else.

That's essentially what you're all doing here. You've taken something positive, and turned it sour.

As for what constitutes a 'nit', I guess that's open to interpretation. In my eyes, it's someone who always sees the negative in the game and complains about it. This thread is a perfect example.

Others are:
- someone who always picks the opposing argument to stir up shit
- when a good player blames missed shots on table conditions
- a player who *****es about rules when everyone is playing by the same ones
- a player who refuses to respect the calibre of another players game because he/she is envious or too competitive

The list goes on.

Anyway, I meant no disrespect to you. I actually enjoy your posts usually. I simply meant that you guys are being nits right now....not necessarily on a regular basis.

And thanks for the compliment. I try to do my share, but sadly it's never enough.

 

[JB Cases]

JB,

OK. Not that I have ever given this subject deep thought, but I do not walk into many stores these days that are solely dedicated to pool tables. They are more game stores or recreational centers that sell spas, video games, all sorts of stuff. I do not know this for a fact but I would imagine that these other vendors are at the show in response to requests for them to be there from the BCA membership, the folks who own the stores. I do not think they would be there if their presence were not requested. But, again, I do not know the history of this. And, please, let's not hijack this thread again. It has already been around the world and back.

They were not requested to be there by the membership. Nor was it put to a vote to allow non-industry activities to exhibit. On the contrary, Stephen Ducoff and his staff spent a lot of their time traveling at the BCA's expense to other shows throughout the year to pitch the exhibitors at those shows to attend the BCA show. Mr. Ducoff told me this personally at the 2005 show in Houston during a 20 minute conversation we had where I asked him some very pointed questions.

[If you think the show is so bad, why are you there with one of the largest booths each year? It must work pretty well for you to repeat that expense year after year.

I don't know what your journalistic capacity is these days or how much you are embedded in the industry, nor how objective you can be given the roles you have taken on in the business, BUT if you really want the answer to this question and are interested in a story you should call Scott.

You don't really want to know my opinion on this question. I can tell you that my own sentiment about the BCA and the way they handle the show is felt by many many many current and former exhibitors.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Terry,

My point is that although Ivan may not be perfect, squabbling over BCA issues is hardly the way to show appreciation. The fact remains that Ivan is one of the industry main supporters. That's what this honor is all about.

Imagine a birthday party where all the guests didn't bring gifts. Instead, they all show up and sit around and discuss all the birthday boys failings, and how he could be a better person. Maybe even tell him that the party would be more deserving for someone else.

That's essentially what you're all doing here. You've taken something positive, and turned it sour.

As for what constitutes a 'nit', I guess that's open to interpretation. In my eyes, it's someone who always sees the negative in the game and complains about it. This thread is a perfect example.

Anyway, I meant no disrespect to you. I actually enjoy your posts usually. I simply meant that you guys are being nits right now....not necessarily on a regular basis.

And thanks for the compliment. I try to do my share, but sadly it's never enough.

Nathan,
Points well taken, especially the analogy of the birthday party. I also never want to be negative when I post, and seeing it from your perspective, it does come across like a bucket of water on a nice cozy camp fire.

Seriously, I'd rather be called a "nit" than be considered someone who is negative towards pool. I really love this crazy game we all play and I really hope things improve. Here's hoping that Mr Ivan Lee is the man who will do great and memorable things for the betterment of pool. Jerry, Mike, JoeyA, Lenny and you and any others my posts upset have my sincere apologies for dampening what was to be a celebration thread.
My beefs with the BCA should have been in another thread and for that, I also apologize.

I do, however, stand by everything I said about the BCA. Ivan Lee may be good, but the BCA is.......

No, I'll be positive. The BCA is about to really become an industry powerhouse and will have a great effect in revitalizing pro pool in America!

And Nathan, thanks for voicing your opinion in a professional and gentlemanly manner. It sinks deeper into my head that way!

Good luck with your pool endeavors Nathan! So far, so good!

 

[JB Cases]

Yet another thread that clearly showcases why our game struggles: Lack of community and respect.

Jerry and Mike made their pick. They have their reasons. Now how about we respect them for it? After all, it was THEIR vote, THEIR award, and THEIR site.

Sure, it's possible that there may have been one or two people who some feel may have deserved the vote, but does it really matter? On top of that, how many of you get to see the inner workings of the industry on a regular basis? Hell, I work in the industry, and even I am not qualified or educated enough to make a vote. Not even close. And yet forum members are?

I hate to say it, but this thread is a clear cut case of forum members acting like total nits.

Yes, I said it. Nits.

Ivan worked hard. How about we show him some respect and acknowledge his efforts. All this *****ing is only denying him the respect and appreciation that he deserves.

So we are supposed to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the elephant in the room?

I guess I am a nit then when it comes to this subject. I completely disagree with the choice of Ivan Lee as the man of the decade in billiards by anyone.

The reason I personally disagree is that Ivan Lee has been a part of a corrupt organization which has worked very hard to destroy pool in the United States. This organization was founded on the principles of PROMOTING the game as it's primary mission. The trade show was created as a place for INDUSTRY people to gather and buy and sell amongst themselves.

The BCA with Ivan Lee at the helm decided to make the BCA primarily about selling real estate at the BCA at all costs and to the detriment of the core BILLIARDS industry membership.

They also made several decisions directly AGAINST the votes of the general membership in favor of a FEW large exhibitors which had the effect of nearly wiping out the attendance to the show. Ivan did not correct this until last year, way too late, the damage cannot be undone.

With all due respect Nate you are a beginner in this business. You have not been here for the whole ride and you do not know the backstory. At least I doubt that you do.

But let's put this in proper perspective so that you completely understand.

Let's assume that you buy a booth at the BCA and two booths down from you is a guy selling home magic kits. He has this freaking awesome video there of a magican doing these great looking tricks and he explains the tricks on video. He even has a live magician at the booth who will demonstrate this rocking kit. So a guy who owns a recreation store which sells pool tables shows up at the BILLIARD industry show and is walking the aisles and comes upon the magic guy's booth before yours. He is impressed by the presentation, the package and the price and he spends $3000 on an order of these kits for his store.

Two booths later he sees your stand. You have a pretty cool video presentation, you have a live performer doing trick shots, and the guy is entertained. The only problem is that he just spent the budget on videos to buy the magic guy's stuff so no money to stock up on Venom videos.

Do you see the point?

You want me to respect the choice of Man of the Decade who presides over the organization that has encouraged my customers to purchase non-billiard products and activities? Sorry, I can't do that, and this very forum IS the place where we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand.

Yes Ivan works hard and he is genuinely interested in seeing things change for the better. Because of that his name should be in the hat. But no way in my mind would I have ever voted for him because despite his best intentions the sport of billiards in the USA is in further decline since his involvement and the BCA has done nothing to try and reverse that.