APA 8 Ball???

[justadub]

but is there a mental defect or disease in beginnners that won't allow them to process regulation rules that most of the rest of the civilized world utilizes. My son is 11 and he has no problem playing by regulation rules and not some made up BS so players can feel good about making a ball in a pocket they had no intention, or losing a game because they did not place a "thinging" on the pocket when shooting the 8, or getting hooked on the break because he made solids, and stripes are wide open.
That is my biggest grip about the APA as they are bringing new people to the game but filling their tiny little brains with erroneous information. Heck, I"ll bet not one person would quit APA based on playing with some regulation rules.........

You mean regulation rules like ball-in-hand behind the head string after a scratch on the break?

My tiny little brain switches back and forth quite nicely, a couple times a week. I've always maintained that I can play any type of game with anyone (not necessarily regarding pool) so long as I know what the rules are. This is no different. Why the rules are the way they are, or who decided to make the rules the way they are is immaterial. The rules are the rules, and everyone has to play by them. They aren't kept secret, or changed on the fly. Everyone knows them ahead of time.

 

[markpatrick]

nice one

If you all didnt know APA stands for Any Pocket Asshole. Worst rule ever.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Black Cat 5791]

Most rank and file APA players couldnt make a BCA roster and be competitive.

You are so far off base you couldn't make it back to the base with a 10 second headstart.

First off what do you call a rank and file player. Unless your a Pro Level Player & you can't beat me I'd call you a clown just for your remark alone!

There is absolutely no league that is better than another. If people want to play pool and have fun then they will play pool and have fun. If people want to get better at the game they will do what's needed to improve. I doesn't matter which league you play in.

And for the rest of you that think 8 ball without calling pockets is not real pool then why in the hell is 8 ball the damn near only game where you do have to call pockets. When was the last time 9 ball or 10 ball was call pocket. I don't particularly like when someone lucks in a shot on me either but it's apart of the game, and accepted when you choose to play. If you don't want to play bye the accepted rules then don't play. Choose another league, it's no different than when you pick up a game and you have to decide with your opponent which rules you'll play by.

Everybody else get a life and find something else to complain and ***** about.

Black cat :angry:

 

[SKJoss72]

Well the last time I checked the slop type pool in 9 an 10 ball was designed to speed up the game for TV true at the higher levels it doesn't happen often but it does.

 

[catscradle]

Talked to someone at the poolroom last night who plays on the APA 8 ball league. She said that it is a slop league, meaning all you have to do is hit a ball in your group and if you make any of your balls you can continue your inning. The only ball you have to call is the eight.

Is this true? Does anyone who plays this format like it. I have never played 8 ball that is not call pocket. To me, that kind of takes some of the skill out of it. What do you think?

Yes it is true, but it doesn't really effect the outcome of matches except on rare occasions. I'd say it has no more effect than accidentally leaving your opponent safe. People tend to make a big deal out of it, but it really isn't. The best player will win as frequently as they would without the slop rule.
JMHO, but of course since it is mine it is right.

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

You mean regulation rules like ball-in-hand behind the head string after a scratch on the break?

My tiny little brain switches back and forth quite nicely, a couple times a week. I've always maintained that I can play any type of game with anyone (not necessarily regarding pool) so long as I know what the rules are. This is no different. Why the rules are the way they are, or who decided to make the rules the way they are is immaterial. The rules are the rules, and everyone has to play by them. They aren't kept secret, or changed on the fly. Everyone knows them ahead of time.

Really, you can switch back and forth between APA rules and BCA... WOW, fantastic. Yes, it is material who makes the rules and why.
Why don't we teach kids that 2 strikes and you are out in baseball.
Or how about you touch second you score a run. It is just ridiculous
that the rules can't even be close to consistent in pool for 8ball.
You get a group of adults anywhere in the country, throw them on a baseball field, and there will not be any arguments about the rules. Everyone will know the rules.... Oh yeah, but baseball is the great american sport and pool is stuck in the gutter of the sporting world because nobody gives a crap anymore. Gets a little old re-teching the APA knuckleheads that they have not been playing "real" pool, and they were taught those rules to suck any remaining cash from their wallets because they felt good slopping in a ball or two.... EXCELLENT !!!! There might be a reason the APA is run just like the Chicago Public Schools !!

 

[FreeShot]

Yes it is true, but it doesn't really effect the outcome of matches except on rare occasions. I'd say it has no more effect than accidentally leaving your opponent safe. People tend to make a big deal out of it, but it really isn't. The best player will win as frequently as they would without the slop rule.
JMHO, but of course since it is mine it is right.

I agree with this.

 

[Underclocked]

I've a general question about current 8-ball rules...

if a person calls the eight in a given pocket, along its path to the pocket, the 8 encounters a light kiss with another ball but still goes in the called pocket - has a foul been committed?

 

[APA Operator]

OK. Technically slop counts in only one of the pockets in BCA versus all 6 pockets in APA. But at least I shot it in the right pocket.

Dude, you crack me up. It's acceptable slop because it went into the right pocket? Ok.

And due to your connection to the APA, could you really disagree with APA?? I mean, there is some "crap" I'm not to thrilled about with the company I work for, but I'm not going on a forum and blasting them for it.

I don't get your point here. Are you not doing something that I haven't done? Or are you saying I should be like you and not do that? Or are you trying to say you're a better person because you don't do it and I don't? Or is it just not wrong to not do something like that, so I shouldn't do it? You got my moral compass all out of whack.

Oh, I get it now. You think I actually disagree with the rule. Not at all. The ONLY difference between call pocket and call nothing is that call nothing speeds up the matches between beginners. The rest is just ego stroking. There's plenty of luck in pool that has nothing to do with whether you made the ball you were trying to make in the pocket you were trying to make it in.

but is there a mental defect or disease in beginnners that won't allow them to process regulation rules that most of the rest of the civilized world utilizes.

What's a "regulation rule"? Is that the same as a "real" rule? How does a "non-regulation" or "imaginary" rule get to be a "regulation" or "real" rule? Or is a "regulation rule" a rule that people with gigantic brains use?

Seriously, why do you think your version of the rules are "official" and mine are not? Did God speak from the clouds and declare your rules "official"? You have a set of rules you like and I have a set of rules I like. You call mine made up BS used by people with tiny brains, but I suspect you really just want to smear the APA any way you can. I haven't insulted your rules, and I won't, because I'm a big enough person to realize that they are just different, and neither is more or less official than the other.

My son is 11 and he has no problem playing by regulation rules and not some made up BS so players can feel good about making a ball in a pocket they had no intention, or losing a game because they did not place a "thinging" on the pocket when shooting the 8, or getting hooked on the break because he made solids, and stripes are wide open.

You know what you sound like in that paragraph? A crybaby.

For the record, I don't like the "mark the pocket" rule. More specifically, I don't like people who use that rule to steal games. But if you think about it, it's not really any different than stealing a game because the opponent didn't "call" the pocket on the 8. You bring it up as some sort of insult, but the same thing can happen in the rules you like.

As for the other things you mention, how are they anything but different? Wait - don't answer that. Let me point out the hypocrisy in what you actually typed. In one sentence you refer to slop as made up bs AND IN THE SAME SENTENCE (well, I think it's the same sentence anyway) you imply that you should be able to choose the easier group after you make a ball on the break. Let me ask you, why should you be rewarded with the choice of the wide open stripes when all you did was make a slop shot? Or did you call the ball and the pocket on that break?

That is my biggest grip about the APA as they are bringing new people to the game but filling their tiny little brains with erroneous information. Heck, I"ll bet not one person would quit APA based on playing with some regulation rules.........

There you go again, insulting APA members. Why do you equate brain size with pool playing ability?

Personally, I think anyone who would quit over rules doesn't truly understand the purpose of rules in the first place. Rules simply provide a framework, while the game is a test of your ability to play within that framework. Different rule sets provide different frameworks, and possibly different challenges to the player.

[Side Note] - I have a rocket scientist AND a brain surgeon in my league...

 

[DelaWho???]

Really, you can switch back and forth between APA rules and BCA... WOW, fantastic. Yes, it is material who makes the rules and why.
Why don't we teach kids that 2 strikes and you are out in baseball.
Or how about you touch second you score a run. It is just ridiculous
that the rules can't even be close to consistent in pool for 8ball.
You get a group of adults anywhere in the country, throw them on a baseball field, and there will not be any arguments about the rules. Everyone will know the rules.... Oh yeah, but baseball is the great american sport and pool is stuck in the gutter of the sporting world because nobody gives a crap anymore. Gets a little old re-teching the APA knuckleheads that they have not been playing "real" pool, and they were taught those rules to suck any remaining cash from their wallets because they felt good slopping in a ball or two.... EXCELLENT !!!! There might be a reason the APA is run just like the Chicago Public Schools !!

How hard will it be to teach the BCA "knuckleheads" the new BCA rule that states a scratch on the break is ball in hand anywhere on the table.
I just read a big thread about it yesterday.

Speaking of baseball, when we get together and play, will we get the designated hitter rule or not?

 

[justadub]

Really, you can switch back and forth between APA rules and BCA... WOW, fantastic. Yes, it is material who makes the rules and why.
Why don't we teach kids that 2 strikes and you are out in baseball.
Or how about you touch second you score a run. It is just ridiculous
that the rules can't even be close to consistent in pool for 8ball.
You get a group of adults anywhere in the country, throw them on a baseball field, and there will not be any arguments about the rules. Everyone will know the rules.... Oh yeah, but baseball is the great american sport and pool is stuck in the gutter of the sporting world because nobody gives a crap anymore. Gets a little old re-teching the APA knuckleheads that they have not been playing "real" pool, and they were taught those rules to suck any remaining cash from their wallets because they felt good slopping in a ball or two.... EXCELLENT !!!! There might be a reason the APA is run just like the Chicago Public Schools !!

Didn't you and I go over the baseball analogy a few months ago? If I remember correctly, I'm not supposed to debate baseball with you because you are FAR more qualified than me given your background, so I won't go down that road again. Despite the many differences in play that we could dance around all day long, at many different levels.

Look, it is quite obvious that you have a hair across your tookus about the APA, and that's fine. You don't have to like APA. But surely you can at least try to be objective occasionally, but because you don't like it you will simply make outrageous insults over and over again, insulting anyone who would be associated with the league. The rule differences are small, and have virtually no effect in any match beyond the beginners, where it speeds up play. If you truly have players that can't tell the difference in rules for APA and BCA, after explaining those rules in a reasonable manner, then perhaps you have some dense individuals. But I somehow doubt that.

I just think this is yet another chance for you to rail against the APA, and given any chance you will take it. I don't believe for a minute this is a regular occurrence where you play pool. And it's kinda sad that you have so much negative energy to spread around, but that's how it goes in the big city, huh? A simple country boy like myself (one that plays APA no less) couldn't possibly understand...

 

[KRJ]

Hmmm

Dude, you crack me up. It's acceptable slop because it went into the right pocket? Ok.

Chicago RJ: Not really, but tell me how many times that has happened to someone in a year?? But I"m with you... lets change the rule if it is more consistent. So now we agree.
****************************************************
APA Dude: I don't get your point here. Are you not doing something that I haven't done? Or are you saying I should be like you and not do that? Or are you trying to say you're a better person because you don't do it and I don't? Or is it just not wrong to not do something like that, so I shouldn't do it? You got my moral compass all out of whack.

ChicagoRJ: What I'm implying is you are NOT going to come on a forum and diss the APA, just like I would not go on a forum and diss my employer. Not an insult, but at least I'm not biased for financial reasons.
***********************************************
APA Dude: Oh, I get it now. You think I actually disagree with the rule. Not at all. The ONLY difference between call pocket and call nothing is that call nothing speeds up the matches between beginners. The rest is just ego stroking. There's plenty of luck in pool that has nothing to do with whether you made the ball you were trying to make in the pocket you were trying to make it in.

ChicagoRJ: Actually, taking a lot of luck of the game is the reason for rules changes since the early 80's. Especially the old "legitimate attempt to strike your ball first". If you didn't there was no penalty. I wonder how many folks had their heads cracked due to that rule.
*****************************************************
APA Dude: What's a "regulation rule"? Is that the same as a "real" rule? How does a "non-regulation" or "imaginary" rule get to be a "regulation" or "real" rule? Or is a "regulation rule" a rule that people with gigantic brains use?

Seriously, why do you think your version of the rules are "official" and mine are not? Did God speak from the clouds and declare your rules "official"? You have a set of rules you like and I have a set of rules I like. You call mine made up BS used by people with tiny brains, but I suspect you really just want to smear the APA any way you can. I haven't insulted your rules, and I won't, because I'm a big enough person to realize that they are just different, and neither is more or less official than the other.

ChicagoRJ: Well, because the BCA literally wrote the rules on 8ball. But I'm reasonable. Lets get the top players in the world, the BCA, the ACS, TAP and the APA, the top pool teachers, referees and some great amatuer players, and hash out an agreement. I guarantee you the rules would look much closer to BCA than the joke the APA came up with.
****************************************************

APA Dude:For the record, I don't like the "mark the pocket" rule. More specifically, I don't like people who use that rule to steal games.

ChicagoRJ: Exactly, now your thinkning like a pool player !!!
***************************************************************************
APA Dude: But if you think about it, it's not really any different than stealing a game because the opponent didn't "call" the pocket on the 8. You bring it up as some sort of insult, but the same thing can happen in the rules you like.

ChicagoRJ: Not once in 10 years have I seen someone steal a game for not calling pocket in 8ball. I'm sure it has happened, but we are big boys, we can point to a pocket and our opponents understand,,, you know, like the PRO's do every day and in every tourny they play in. Oh, that's right, the pro's NEVER play by APA rules !!!!!
***************************************************************************

APA Dude:You imply that you should be able to choose the easier group after you make a ball on the break. Let me ask you, why should you be rewarded with the choice of the wide open stripes when all you did was make a slop shot? Or did you call the ball and the pocket on that break?

ChicagoRJ: OK, now you are just being goofy about the whole thing. If I can make a ball on the break 75% of the time, I should get rewarded for my efforts because I actually practice the break shot. Instead the APA penalilzes the breaker and rewards the guy sitting in his chair who LOST the lag !!!!
****************************************************************************
APA Dude: There you go again, insulting APA members. Why do you equate brain size with pool playing ability?

ChicagoRJ: WRONG: I'm insulting the APA, not the players. It's the players who are forced to abide by the APA rules and the LO who don't know much about the game. The "brain joke" is because the rules are meant to be "easy" and for beginners, and thus the APA must not believe their members have bigger brains.... I have no problems with the players and actuall feel sorry for them for learning these ridiculous rules and than look like idiots the first time they try and play some real pool.
****************************************************
.
APA Dude: I have a rocket scientist AND a brain surgeon in my league...
ChicagoRJ: WOW, and not enough sense to leave, that is not saying much !!!!!!!!!

So we agree to disagree.. Great. Play by the APA rules and slop yourself silly.

 

[KRJ]

Hmmmm

I just think this is yet another chance for you to rail against the APA, and given any chance you will take it. I don't believe for a minute this is a regular occurrence where you play pool. And it's kinda sad that you have so much negative energy to spread around, but that's how it goes in the big city, huh? A simple country boy like myself (one that plays APA no less) couldn't possibly understand...

No, you could never understand this no matter how many times it was explained. There is a whole big world out there, come on out of the sticks and see it once in awhile !!

 

[justadub]

So tell me, when you play by your "official" rules, what happens when you make the 8 on the break?

waiting....

waiting...

wait for it....

Do you lose? Because that is the official rule.

Where do you put the ball after a scratch, ANY scratch? Because if it's not behind the headstring, you are NOT playing by official BCA 8-ball rules.

I'm sure there are other examples, but Im not gonna bother to look them up. The point is that the "official" rules are the rules put in place by the folks who are running that particular game. There are plenty of deviations to prove this point.

And another little thing you might want to reconcile. You play in a BCAPL League. The "official" rules of pool were written by the Billiard Congress of America. Not the same thing. BCAPL didn't write the official rules of pool, tho I believe they use most of them. Obviously not all of them, as I just pointed out. The larger argument here is that you have it in your head that anything but what YOU play has to be the ONLY true way, and in that you are completely misguided. Talk to any old-timer and ask them about ball-in-hand anywhere on the table, and they'll laugh at you the same way you laugh at APA.

I think if you stop railing at the way everyone else plays, you'll feel better. All the anxiety and angst must eat away at you continuously.

 

[Realizm]

That sounds like they are trying to appeal to the bar/banger crowd. The only time I see people play take what you make on the break is when they really can't play. I've never seen a skilled player not play open table after the break.

Wow now this is the truth , I play apa and there are more crazy rules like ,You can hit the 3 ball in the rack along as 3 ball hit a rail ,Wow

And if 2 ball frozen cb and object ball you can push the balls in the same direction towards the pocket and it not a push..

Heres the best if you hide your speed and someone know how you really play you just might get knock if you make it and they didn't

apa ( "any pocket anywhere")..

 

[RackRunner]

These APA threads are truly, the most entertaining.
Truth be told (and I've said it before) the APA is designed to continuously grow. One team becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight, etc.,etc., you get the point. My problem with the APA is that you can't actually keep playing with your friends because they are going to jack up your skill levels to the point that you can't continue to play together. They do this a couple of different ways. 1) While there is a box to mark down a defensive shot, there is not a box to mark down a lucky shot and therefore "on paper" over time the APA's scoring systems makes you look better than you actually are due to the fact that one of the ways they determine your skill level is how many "innings" you play on average in each game. Over time if you continue to slops balls in you will not have as many innings as if you actually missed the pocket you were aiming for. 2) Even if you're smart enough (and many have been) to sandbag i.e. to miss shots on purpose to extend the amount of innings per game, if you continue to win at a high percentage rate, you will still have your skill level raised. I played in the APA because a friend of mine was the league operator and asked me to play. I went in with the attitude I always do, I'm going to crush my opponent. After seeing this for a while, my LO told me "I might want to slow down a bit" meaning if I continued to play like this my skill level was going to be raised rather quickly. I didn't understand anything about the "23" rule so I didn't listen and now I'm branded a skill level 7 forever. Still, no problem, as I can compete with the best of them. Only problem is I had to change teammates every year to continue to play. I did it three years in a row and still won the right to go to Vegas, but the fourth year people started complaining to the LO and threatened to quit playing if he allowed me to continue to put teams together. He politely asked me to quit playing in his league. The allure is simply this, get to Vegas and play for a chance at $25,000 first place money in 8-ball. The only problem there is this...once you get to Vegas and want to win that money all the sandbaggers have to play a little better in order to keep winning and in doing so you will be noticed and they will raise your skill level right on the spot. The last year I was there we ended up playing with four players because we couldn't make the 23 rule. The APA sucks...but that's just my opinion...

 

[Mr Slate]

OK I'll try again

Most rank and file APA players couldnt make a BCA roster and be competitive.

Do you have to actually "make the team" or can you just join up with the BCA?

 

[APA Operator]

****************************************************
APA Dude: I don't get your point here. Are you not doing something that I haven't done? Or are you saying I should be like you and not do that? Or are you trying to say you're a better person because you don't do it and I don't? Or is it just not wrong to not do something like that, so I shouldn't do it? You got my moral compass all out of whack.

ChicagoRJ: What I'm implying is you are NOT going to come on a forum and diss the APA, just like I would not go on a forum and diss my employer. Not an insult, but at least I'm not biased for financial reasons.

No, your bias comes from something completely different...

*****************************************************
APA Dude: What's a "regulation rule"? Is that the same as a "real" rule? How does a "non-regulation" or "imaginary" rule get to be a "regulation" or "real" rule? Or is a "regulation rule" a rule that people with gigantic brains use?

Seriously, why do you think your version of the rules are "official" and mine are not? Did God speak from the clouds and declare your rules "official"? You have a set of rules you like and I have a set of rules I like. You call mine made up BS used by people with tiny brains, but I suspect you really just want to smear the APA any way you can. I haven't insulted your rules, and I won't, because I'm a big enough person to realize that they are just different, and neither is more or less official than the other.

ChicagoRJ: Well, because the BCA literally wrote the rules on 8ball. But I'm reasonable. Lets get the top players in the world, the BCA, the ACS, TAP and the APA, the top pool teachers, referees and some great amatuer players, and hash out an agreement. I guarantee you the rules would look much closer to BCA than the joke the APA came up with.
****************************************************

Would those rules then be "regulation" rules? By whose declaration? You're really missing the whole point here. To be "official" there has to be a jurisdiction. The laws of the state of Texas do not apply in the state of Florida, but they are "official" in Texas. BCA rules are "official" whenever BCA has jurisdiction, and APA rules are "official" whenever APA has jurisdiction.

APA wrote the rules on 8-Ball, too. Literally. I have them in print, written by APA, right here.

APA Dude:For the record, I don't like the "mark the pocket" rule. More specifically, I don't like people who use that rule to steal games.

ChicagoRJ: Exactly, now your thinkning like a pool player !!!
***************************************************************************
APA Dude: But if you think about it, it's not really any different than stealing a game because the opponent didn't "call" the pocket on the 8. You bring it up as some sort of insult, but the same thing can happen in the rules you like.

ChicagoRJ: Not once in 10 years have I seen someone steal a game for not calling pocket in 8ball. I'm sure it has happened, but we are big boys, we can point to a pocket and our opponents understand,,, you know, like the PRO's do every day and in every tourny they play in. Oh, that's right, the pro's NEVER play by APA rules !!!!!
***************************************************************************

This egotistical attitude is pervasive throughout your posts in this thread.

For your information, the pros DID play by APA rules back in the mid-90's, when Camel sponsored the tour. But that's neither here nor there, whatever rules the pros decide to use are official within that jurisdiction.

APA Dude:You imply that you should be able to choose the easier group after you make a ball on the break. Let me ask you, why should you be rewarded with the choice of the wide open stripes when all you did was make a slop shot? Or did you call the ball and the pocket on that break?

ChicagoRJ: OK, now you are just being goofy about the whole thing. If I can make a ball on the break 75% of the time, I should get rewarded for my efforts because I actually practice the break shot. Instead the APA penalilzes the breaker and rewards the guy sitting in his chair who LOST the lag !!!!

You don't get rewarded for effort, you get rewarded for performance. Do you get rewarded for hooking yourself on any other shot?

When the framework says you take what you make, you shouldn't be rewarded for making a ball and not leaving yourself a shot at another ball from that group. That's pretty crappy performance WITHIN THAT FRAMEWORK.

You do realize that you could use this argument to justify giving the breaker ball-in-hand after the break, right? If the cue ball rolls to a spot where there's no shot at ANY ball, by your argument the rules are penalizing the breaker.

****************************************************************************
APA Dude: There you go again, insulting APA members. Why do you equate brain size with pool playing ability?

ChicagoRJ: WRONG: I'm insulting the APA, not the players. It's the players who are forced to abide by the APA rules and the LO who don't know much about the game. The "brain joke" is because the rules are meant to be "easy" and for beginners, and thus the APA must not believe their members have bigger brains.... I have no problems with the players and actuall feel sorry for them for learning these ridiculous rules and than look like idiots the first time they try and play some real pool.

WRONG: APA doesn't have different rules because they think they are easier to understand. They have different rules because they want their framework to be beginner-friendly. You know that, but you introduced the "tiny brain" comment as an insult anyway, because you have some hard-on for the APA. It's actually pretty typical behavior for someone who can't logically debate an issue - resort to insulting intelligence, maturity, toughness, or some other personal attribute of the other person. I think you've hit on more than one of those attributes in this thread.

I feel sorry for the amateurs who learn to play in bars, by "bar rules", and who look like idiots the first time they try to play some league pool. I don't insult the bars though, for making these people play by different rules. Bar rules are the way they are for a reason, APA rules are the way they are for a reason, and the rules you like are the way they are for a reason.

****************************************************
.
APA Dude: I have a rocket scientist AND a brain surgeon in my league...
ChicagoRJ: WOW, and not enough sense to leave, that is not saying much !!!!!!!!!

Sure, you're not insulting APA members...

So we agree to disagree.. Great. Play by the APA rules and slop yourself silly.

Actually, I'm an APA 7, so I don't make much slop. I don't cry about the slop my opponents make, though, 'cause I'm a big boy and choose to accept that challenge rather than run away from it.

 

[APA Operator]

These APA threads are truly, the most entertaining.
Truth be told (and I've said it before) the APA is designed to continuously grow. One team becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight, etc.,etc., you get the point. My problem with the APA is that you can't actually keep playing with your friends because they are going to jack up your skill levels to the point that you can't continue to play together. They do this a couple of different ways. 1) While there is a box to mark down a defensive shot, there is not a box to mark down a lucky shot and therefore "on paper" over time the APA's scoring systems makes you look better than you actually are due to the fact that one of the ways they determine your skill level is how many "innings" you play on average in each game. Over time if you continue to slops balls in you will not have as many innings as if you actually missed the pocket you were aiming for. 2) Even if you're smart enough (and many have been) to sandbag i.e. to miss shots on purpose to extend the amount of innings per game, if you continue to win at a high percentage rate, you will still have your skill level raised. I played in the APA because a friend of mine was the league operator and asked me to play. I went in with the attitude I always do, I'm going to crush my opponent. After seeing this for a while, my LO told me "I might want to slow down a bit" meaning if I continued to play like this my skill level was going to be raised rather quickly. I didn't understand anything about the "23" rule so I didn't listen and now I'm branded a skill level 7 forever. Still, no problem, as I can compete with the best of them. Only problem is I had to change teammates every year to continue to play. I did it three years in a row and still won the right to go to Vegas, but the fourth year people started complaining to the LO and threatened to quit playing if he allowed me to continue to put teams together. He politely asked me to quit playing in his league. The allure is simply this, get to Vegas and play for a chance at $25,000 first place money in 8-ball. The only problem there is this...once you get to Vegas and want to win that money all the sandbaggers have to play a little better in order to keep winning and in doing so you will be noticed and they will raise your skill level right on the spot. The last year I was there we ended up playing with four players because we couldn't make the 23 rule. The APA sucks...but that's just my opinion...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your story, and please correct me if I am, but it sounds like "I'm a very good player and by the time I decided to sandbag it was too late for me, so I got some other good players to sandbag and went to nationals three years in a row. The last time we went we got caught sandbagging and raised to the point where the 23 rule kept us from continuing. Therefore, APA sucks."

I think the only thing that sucked about your story is that you got to nationals three years in a row before you were weeded out, and that your LO told you to slow down. That's a bad LO.

Oh, and you don't get raised on the spot in Vegas (not for at least the past 15 years, anyway), you get raised between rounds.

 

[Majic]

No, your bias comes from something completely different...


I feel sorry for the amateurs who learn to play in bars, by "bar rules", and who look like idiots the first time they try to play some league pool. I don't insult the bars though, for making these people play by different rules. Bar rules are the way they are for a reason, APA rules are the way they are for a reason, and the rules you like are the way they are for a reason.

I am in complete disagreement with you on the above statement. Your statement in reality is rather pointed and biased. Any mid level APA player is going to look like an idiot if they try to play in a bar tournament. They have to call shots, no ball in hand, behind the line ...its real pool not recreational pool, no innings to count, no coaching...etc . etc. In reality bar pool players are better than APA pleyers.