Thorston gives Ko Pin Yi a pass

[SCCues]

I wouldn't want to win a match if I won due to a called foul on an obvious combo shot. I like the fact that Thorsten felt the same way and wouldn't take the ref's call of "foul" on an obvious combo that wasn't called before the shot. He's a class act and one of my favorite pro players to watch play.

James

 

[gordml]

Totally different situation here Willie. And, again, it goes back to knowing the rules. Rules would call this outside interference, and the balls should be restored as close as possible to where they were, and shooter shoots again.


Just my opinion on a few points. You either play by the rules, or you don't. If you agree to a set of rules, then you should play by them. If it's call shot, you have to call your shot. To not do so, is a violation of the rules, and you should be penalized. Honorable is to play by the rules, not dismiss the ones you feel like dismissing, and insulting a ref in the process.

I gotta disagree, and also just my opinion. But then again I disagree with the ref's call. You shouldn't have to call every shot , because most shots in pool are obvious.

It's also completely obvious if a player slops, flukes or sh*ts a ball in. He basically and obviously intended for the ball to go in one pocket but hit it so bad it went into another.
That drives opponnents crazy in 9 ball so when 10 ball was invented they took the opportunity to clean it up and make it call shots. The spirit of the rule was to make the game more fair.

Now back to the combination. The players intention was obvious, he did what he intended to so and made a good shot. I believe in cases like this the ref should be able to use his judgement in keeping with the spirit of the rule - the intention was obvious,it was a well played shot obviously not "slopped" in so why not allow it?

Incidently who won the match???

 

[peteypooldude]

Watching the Guinness World Series of Pool(Jakarta) live here in Korea, 6PM Friday night now. First match on the TV table Thorsten Hohmann vs. Ko Pin Yi. Game is Ten Ball alternate break. Tied at 1-1 Ko at the table shoots a 3-7 combo but didn't call it. Combo on the obvious side. Ko makes the 7 and gets good shape on the 3. Ref calls a foul. Ko sits down, Thorston waves him back, tells the ref it's ok it was an obvious combo. Ko gets back on the table finishes the rack.

My question is how many of you guys would have done the same thing? By the way it's a Race to 6!!!

1st Place is $40,000.

Kano

Thorston is a class act ,That is cool

 

[Jaden]

It really comes down to what your integrity is worth...

If I were in Thorston's situation, it wouldn't have occurred to me to tell the ref to disregard the missed call. When there's a ref, the ref makes those decisions. I understand what Thorston was thinking, but I'd feel like I was being presumptuous. After all, it wasn't an incorrect call. If it was incorrect call, I'd certainly challenge it whether it was against me or my opponent.

In my games, I overlook non-called obvious shots all the time. I'd feel like a giant ***hole if I were to ding my opponent like that. Then again, I don't play for money. If $40K were on the line and there were no ref ... hmm. It would be ugly to give my opponent a non-called obvious shot, only to have my opponent later ding me for the same thing because of the money pressure. Most people aren't like Thorston. I'd feel like a fool to give that away when there's a good chance that my opponent wouldn't reciprocate. Of course, this applies to my opponent too, so I'm sure my opponent and I would agree that for this kind of money it's by the book to the fullest extent.

You shouldn't feel like a fool, you should feel sorry for the person whose self worth is low enough to be willing to sacrifice their integrity and be proud of your own condition.

Jaden

 

[Roy Steffensen]

If I'm not mistaken, Thorsten did the same thing a couple of years ago during a match with Marlon Manalo.

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[Jaden]

Imo

Totally different situation here Willie. And, again, it goes back to knowing the rules. Rules would call this outside interference, and the balls should be restored as close as possible to where they were, and shooter shoots again.


Just my opinion on a few points. You either play by the rules, or you don't. If you agree to a set of rules, then you should play by them. If it's call shot, you have to call your shot. To not do so, is a violation of the rules, and you should be penalized. Honorable is to play by the rules, not dismiss the ones you feel like dismissing, and insulting a ref in the process.

I have called fouls on myself that only I knew about when I knew it would cost me getting into the money, and I needed the money. But, there was no ref present. If a ref was present, I still would have called it on myself. That is what an honorable man does. I feel that many of you have a misguided notion of what honorable is. It is NOT honorable to be in a tournament, and say "screw the rules, I say he didn't foul.", even if your intentions where to be honorable. You don't give the table back to your opponent because he had a brain fart under pressure. That is not honorable, that is stupid. And, if I was backing someone that did that, we would be having a long talk.

You don't try and get your opponent into a brain freeze and then let him off the hook.

IMO it's dishonorable to try and get your opponent into a brain freeze in the first place. I can see both sides of this though. The rules are the rules.

Thorsten was doing what laid best with his conscience though and it was an honorable thing to do, not the only honorable option, but an honorable thing none the less

 

[alstl]

Call shot 10 ball is asinine and I hope it doesn't become a trend. It does more harm than good, and most people don't like having to talk before every obvious shot.

Once in a while somebody benefits from slop but rarely is a match decided because somebody slopped in a ball. The people who whine about that simply need to raise their game.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Here's Thorsten's review from the Mandaluyong Mayor's 10-ball Cup in the Philippines a few years ago. I was correct, he did it against Manalo too

Thorsten Hohmann is CLASS ACT

I continued with another win over K. Tuguchi from Japan with 9:5 and the dream match was set for the evening. Marlon versus Toasti

I started out very strong, using every opportunity given to me to jump out for a 5:0 lead over Marlon, who was born in Mandaluyong City and lives just down the road. Next he played a nice cross bank in the corner but had forgotten to call it. It was obvious to me that he intended to go for the shot, so I told the referee to let Marlon continue. And the momentum changed...

Next thing I know I was trailing 5:6 and I didn't get any rolls in the end. At hill-hill I broke, but failed to make a ball. Marlon played a safe on the 3ball. I kicked at it to combo another ball in, but unfortunately left him a very easy combo to start his run-out. It could have ended up in an awkward position for him easily but it wasn't the case and Marlon cleared the table.

 

[Neil]

..................

 

[Maniac]

In a true "gentlemens" game, what Thorston COULD have done was right after the ref called the foul, he could have walked to the table and lightly touched the cueball (or any ball on the table for that matter), thus "disturbing without moving" it and giving the table right back to his opponent. This would not have circumvented any rules, and play would have continued just as it did anyway but WITHOUT overriding the refs call. Of course, it would have taken a "gentlemens" gesture by Ko Pin Yi to NOT take ball-in-hand. This would have easily resolved the situation without disrespect to the ref and would have left the table situated in the very same condition.

Of course, as one poster stated, pool is not what one would call a "gentlemens" game.

Maniac

 

[Neil]

............

 

[Roy Steffensen]

In a true "gentlemens" game, what Thorston COULD have done was right after the ref called the foul, he could have walked to the table and lightly touched the cueball (or any ball on the table for that matter), thus "disturbing without moving" it and giving the table right back to his opponent. This would not have circumvented any rules, and play would have continued just as it did anyway but WITHOUT overriding the refs call. Of course, it would have taken a "gentlemens" gesture by Ko Pin Yi to NOT take ball-in-hand. This would have easily resolved the situation without disrespect to the ref and would have left the table situated in the very same condition.

Of course, as one poster stated, pool is not what one would call a "gentlemens" game.

Maniac

I can't disagree with you more on this one.

In Europe we are being teached that pool is a gentleman's game from the first time we play, and I think the majority of players here will call fouls on themselves.

 

[Eric.]

Contrast this situation to that televised match where Earl Strickland obviously moved a ball with his arm; ref didn't see it; so Earl kept playing (saying "its not a foul if the ref didn't see it/call it" - I think it was that Grand Central Terminal tourney, I think the opponent was Charlie Williams). I had several family members whose response was, "what a Mickey Mouse sport."

.

Skins Challenge, Atlantic City, NJ. (If my memory isn't letting me down) It was at the Resorts Int'l, it happened right in front of me.


Eric >M I C...

 

[Maniac]

I can't disagree with you more on this one.

In Europe we are being teached that pool is a gentleman's game from the first time we play, and I think the majority of players here will call fouls on themselves.

I'm not talking about a Europe-only scenario. I'm talking about the "big picture" of pool, where it's played in anything from sleazy bars (with sleazier bar rules ), to leagues choked-full of drunken participants, to 24-hour poolhalls full of "bangers" who all think they got "game". There's plenty of a lack of integrity in many poolhalls/bars throughout the world. Kudos Roy for all Europeans showing integrity, but don't kid yourself into thinking that ALL Europeans have it. You put enough eggs into the basket, you're gonna run into a bad one every now and then.

Maniac

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I don't know who won.?? But, whether obvious or not, you have to play by the rules. To not play by the rules is not honorable. The rules state that no combos are obvious. Period. I'm not going to argue what the rules SHOULD be. Just that you should abide by what the rules ARE.

If the rules are what they were, then why was Ko permitted to continue shooting? Obviously there's some flexibility in this rule.

To me, this was a situation where Thorsten had an option and he exercised it. My hat's off to him.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I'm not talking about a Europe-only scenario. I'm talking about the "big picture" of pool, where it's played in anything from sleazy bars (with sleazier bar rules ), to leagues choked-full of drunken participants, to 24-hour poolhalls full of "bangers" who all thing they got "game". There's plenty of a lack of integrity in many poolhalls/bars throughout the world. Kudos Roy for all Europeans showing integrity, but don't kid yourself into thinking that ALL Europeans have it. You put enough eggs into the basket, you're gonna run into a bad one every now and then.

Maniac

I didn't say ALL, please re-read my post if you thought so

 

[steev]

An opinion here.

Many rules were created BECAUSE people were being d1cks, in an effort to force the player to be more fair. When someone 'does the right thing', they're showing what the game SHOULD be like. People who say 'by the book' need to grow up and try to learn to beat someone instead of pointing to a rulebook.

If you don't agree, then you're one of the d1cks.

/end opinion

-s

 

[hang-the-9]

Call shot 10 ball is asinine and I hope it doesn't become a trend. It does more harm than good, and most people don't like having to talk before every obvious shot.

Once in a while somebody benefits from slop but rarely is a match decided because somebody slopped in a ball. The people who whine about that simply need to raise their game.

I like the called shot rule, although the one rule I don't like in 10 ball is when you call a save, and you make a ball, the other person can have you shoot again.

Plenty of times I have lost matches due to missed balls going in in 9-ball. Almost no-one in my pool room will play called shot 10-ball anymore. A few tried, but gave up as they did not win nearly as much. Although even with 9-ball rules 10-ball is a tougher game, I'd rather take away the "4-banks cross corner off the 5" win.

As far as actually calling all shots, eh, that's up to the players. All depends on who you are playing, some people I watch like a hawk for fouls that they don't call on themselves, some I can head over to take a crap for 10 minutes and be safe that if they guy missed his next shot or fouled, he'll be sitting there waiting for my turn when I show up to the table again.

 

[Georgia Boy]

Thorston did the honorable thing, he's a true Gentleman.

I have never made this decision (it's never come up) but I always call fouls on myself that I know about, much to the annoyance of some people. I won't change nor will I appologize for doing that, it's what I was brought up with and what I feel is right. If others on my team (including the Captain) don't like it, they have several options, (a) Accept it for what it is (b) Ask me to leave the team (c) Kiss My A** and keep whinging like a lot of little schoolgirls

As you may gather something of this nature arose last night.......oh well.