refinishing flaws - need answers

mos082

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just cleared my first cue - didnt look so bad - planned on sand and respray then sand and polish - sanding to prep to respray noticed a whte
over spray looking type mist seams like its under the clear - didnt blush usally this happens while you spray - anyone out there had this happen to them -- I'm resanding think I have take all the clear off again -- I understand refinishing been painting cars for years
 
just cleared my first cue - didnt look so bad - planned on sand and respray then sand and polish - sanding to prep to respray noticed a whte
over spray looking type mist seams like its under the clear - didnt blush usally this happens while you spray - anyone out there had this happen to them -- I'm resanding think I have take all the clear off again -- I understand refinishing been painting cars for years
That would more and likely be what I call solvent pop. It is where you applied the finish on to thick. Looks like little white dots every where right!
You will have to strip it all off and start over with the finish work.

Hope this helps!
 
If what you're describing is the same as what Doug is describing, you may not have to totally strip the finish.
Sand down to the white dots and wipe the surface with a medium solvent such as xylene. The dots will disappear.....temporarily. If you try to polish, they will come back.
Shoot another light coat of clear over where you sanded and they will stay gone (unless you sand down to them again).
Just polish-out your last coat starting with 1,000 grit.
Cues ain't cars.
 
That would more and likely be what I call solvent pop. It is where you applied the finish on to thick. Looks like little white dots every where right!
You will have to strip it all off and start over with the finish work.

Hope this helps!

Doug,

I have had the same problem in the past with PPG and thought it was excess moisture in my air system. I put an air dryer on line and have not seen it again. I would experience a great finish after buffing but a day later the dots were there.

Does solvent pop have anything to do with the moisture content in the air?

Rick G
 
cue refinishing

thanks guys - did decide to resand to reclear clear is a high solid clear kinda thought of solvent pop usally doesnt happen with quick dry hardner
but I did pound the clear should of waited between coats - need to let solvent escape when you trap them they have to pop --first stick that i tried - well I'll try it again thanks

gonna attach some pics
 

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thanks guys - did decide to resand to reclear clear is a high solid clear kinda thought of solvent pop usally doesnt happen with quick dry hardner

In my experience, this is more likely with the quick dry finishes. The outer layer hardens up quick, but the finish underneath is still wet. The gas has nowhere to escape as it hardens, so you get this.

With the normal finish I use, I can lay it on as thick as I want, without worrying about this happening. With the Dupont I sometimes use, I have to be extra careful.
 
I spray the Deltron PPG DC3000. I had this happen on an ebony butt sleeve but not to this extreme. Looked like little pin holes. I think I was rushing it. Supposed to wait 2-3 minutes per coat. I now wait 4-5 minutes and haven't had the problem since. One thing weird though when I had this problem it was on a refinish job. I took it down to the wood but I still wonder if it was something to do with what was used before?
 
Lots of different things can cause this. To much air pressure, gun to close to work, spray setting to narrow or to heavy of coats are usually the reasons. This is often called solvent pop but usually that is not the case. It is air trapped in the finish that can't get to the surface. I've even had this problem on occasion using a UV that has no solvent. I've been spraying before and just stop because I knew I had just screwed up getting to close to the cue and this was going to show up later. You need more thin wet coats instead of fewer heavier ones.

Dick
 
Supposed to wait 2-3 minutes per coat. I now wait 4-5 minutes and haven't had the problem since.

You can test to see if it's time to spray another coat by putting your finger on a place you just sprayed (wrap area or tape works). If it's stringy, it's too early. If it's just sticky, but not stringy, you're good to go.
 
you can test to see if it's time to spray another coat by putting your finger on a place you just sprayed (wrap area or tape works). If it's stringy, it's too early. If it's just sticky, but not stringy, you're good to go.

Tony,

I wait over 10 with ppg products. Now that we are on the subject, can anyone with Painting Experience explain what dive back is? When I first started getting the solvent pop or whatever I was told that it could be dive back.

Saw the pics of your finish on the other thread is was
dyn o mite!

Rick
 
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You can test to see if it's time to spray another coat by putting your finger on a place you just sprayed (wrap area or tape works). If it's stringy, it's too early. If it's just sticky, but not stringy, you're good to go.

Don't forget to remove your finger before spraying.
 
All great advice.

I will add that the wood itself may be holding solvent and/or affecting drying rates.

Apply very thin coats- anorexic thin.
Allow to tack (as Tony said) each (and every) coat.
Air should be clean and dry (which you know from painting steel)

Since the scale is so much smaller than a car, a great car paint job looks like total GASH on a cue. It MUST be as perfect as you can get it, because cues are 'inspected' 3 inches from the end of the nose.:rolleyes:

Most important piece of advice: DON'T RUSH anything.

Make sure the wood is good and stable- don't 'go for clear' the same day you did your final sanding. I like to wait several days. If you think it may absorb water and/or move on you, you need more stable wood (or better climate control in your shop!)

The wood can absorb solvents (pull them from the clear) and then release them later. Finishing wood is tricky for sure! When I was doing solid colors on guitars I had a very convoluted system in place, but it worked. Otherwise the paint would 'shrink back' and show the wood grain.

Hardener should be 'fresh' (as mentioned) and of the proper temperature range. NEVER push it by using a faster hardener than the actual temperature to finish faster- better to go the other way and have a slower cure. It also allows some bonding improvement on wood too (but too slow and you may get sink holes.)

Once you are ready, you may want to seal with cyanoacralate (super glue). I do this some times, but generally it is not needed. Depends on the wood type, inlay complexity and general 'gut feeling' at the time...:confused: I do it more to keep the maple free from (Ebony and other) dust and dirt before I can apply a real clear.

If you apply the clear thin, it will still be ready to block and buff about the same time as if you pour it on in one shot. I do not sand my clear until I cannot smell it any longer. This can take a while, but usually a week is plenty of time.

Once I block and buff, I DO NOT wax the cue, again until I cannot smell the clear any longer. This can take more than a week easily- usually two or so.

When sanding and buffing, watch the temperature! If the cue is warm to the touch, back off. Let it cool a bit before you go hoggin' at it. Again- DON'T RUSH.

THEN I apply hard wax and call it done.

Another problem you will have at some point is 'sink holes' where clear is absorbed between the inlay or veneer and surrounding wood. In that case, all you can do is take it back (pretty much all the way) and do it again. I had to do this very thing on my John Davis cue I'm finishing up now...

"Perfect or better is all we ask." -typical customer.:wink:
 
Doug,

I have had the same problem in the past with PPG and thought it was excess moisture in my air system. I put an air dryer on line and have not seen it again. I would experience a great finish after buffing but a day later the dots were there.

Does solvent pop have anything to do with the moisture content in the air?

Rick G
To my knowledge solvent pop is mainly caused by spraying the finish on to heavy. It will and can occur in all clear coats. We have used many types of clear in the body shop over 15 years there and have seen it at one time or another in all of them. Best thing to do that I have found is t spray the first 2 coats on thin and then start with the 3rd and 4th coat wet it out good. I always spray each cue a minimum of 2 times! You get this system down and I have found you will have a lot of cues that will come out near perfect before wet sanding and polishing! The finish is the most important part to the cuel If it isnt right doesnt matter what the rest of the work looks like! IMO
 
cue is done !!!!- thanks for those that replyed

just thought I would post the done product - most people that request infor for problems never post back that it work or whatever.. Came out pretty nice..

Thanks again

ps -
looking for plan to make own booth
 

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more pics - of finished product - !!!!

pics - didnt come out all that well .-.
 

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