Barioni Cues

[Barioni Cues]

generally speaking... low deflection shaft is crap hhh

Just curious, why do you feel that way? When you are playing pool and lets say the object ball is a diamond away from the pocket and the cue ball is at the other end of the table and you you have to load up on some inside English for shape. Is it not easier to pocket the ball as if you were hitting center than to try and figure out how much to compensate for the cue ball deflection? I feel that my game goes up when I take these variables out of the game. After all, are we not looking for consistency?

 

[Barioni Cues]

Eric:

Very good stuff. It should also be pointed out that the "noise suppression" was intended to do so when the vibrations reached the rear of the cue. Those schooled as musical instrument luthiers know that vibrations, once set up, tend to "ring" and bounce back and forth down the length of the material conducive to those vibrations. To a large extent in a musical instrument, you want this sympathetic "ringing" of the vibrations -- that is what gives the instrument its sound, afterall. But there is a point you don't want this ringing to continue. Those with perfect pitch (and those familiar with acoustics) know that the sound of the note F# (F sharp) has a sort of "buzzy" timbre (no matter the instrument that sounds it -- piano, guitar, wind, wood, brass, doesn't matter). At the other end of the perfect pitch tonal spectrum, the sound of the note Eb (E flat) has a very mellow, buttery tone, again, no matter the instrument that sounded it. In a musical instrument, you don't want the sympathetic ringing of a previously struck F# to drown out an Eb that was subsequently struck, so some noise suppression is built into every musical instrument's construction, in some way/shape/fashion.

In a cue, you want the grip hand to receive the vibrations from the tip -- that is the cue "talking to you." But most of the time, you don't want sympathetic ringing bouncing up and down the length of the cue -- that would be an annoying noise, sounding like a very weird tuning fork, like something's wrong with the cue.

So vibration feedback to the grip hand is a good thing, but just one pass of these vibrations are necessary. That LimbSaver actually works in minimizing those vibrations traveling up and down the cue.

This "vibration feedback to the grip hand" thing is why I personally prefer wood-to-wood joints (no matter the pin, although I do have a preference for Radial pins). I'm not a fan of those "big block" stainless steel joints *at all*. Those big blocks of steel in the middle of the cue act as vibration governors, preventing that hit feedback from getting to your grip hand. Basically, the nice flow of continuous wood (that which carries those vibrations from the hit) from tip to your grip hand is disturbed by that big dense block of stainless steel. I'd rather have a pin in the center of the wood, and let the two wood surfaces (of the shaft and the butt) mate up directly with each other. However, I can see why some folks like the hit of a cue with that big block of stainless steel in the middle of it -- the cue has a very "mellow" hit, where none of those vibrations reach the grip hand. (And some misconstrue that "mellow" hit as being a "stiff" hit -- which is not the case at all. The closest analogy I can come up with is the difference in ride between an old Cadillac leisure car, and an economy car. The Cadillac cushions you from feeling the road, while you feel every little bump in the road in the economy car. Car-wise, most would naturally prefer the ride of the Cadillac to the economy car, so this analogy isn't well suited to cues because it's a different thing, but I used it to show what I mean by a "mellow" hit offered by the vibration-dampening qualities of stainless steel.)

Hope this is helpful info,
-Sean

How about in engines? You don't want all that vibration in engines do you? I guess that is why most all engines have a harmonic balancer.
In racing engines or performance engines they high tech harmonic balancers like the Fluid Dampener. You don't want all that vibration in the crank and I certainly don't want it in my shaft. That is energy that can be used in the cue ball. That is why you can get more juice on the ball with different shafts. Some shafts apply the energy to the cue ball while others are applying it to vibrating through out the shaft. Seem like a waste of energy to me! Besides I don't need the feedback from my cue in the form of vibration. (Or mores code for that matter) I can see with my eyes what is going on.

 

[cuesmith]

Just curious, why do you feel that way? When you are playing pool and lets say the object ball is a diamond away from the pocket and the cue ball is at the other end of the table and you you have to load up on some inside English for shape. Is it not easier to pocket the ball as if you were hitting center than to try and figure out how much to compensate for the cue ball deflection? I feel that my game goes up when I take these variables out of the game. After all, are we not looking for consistency?

If you have to think about the compensation, you're lost anyway. As any of the old timers will tell you, you learn to shoot where you need to to make the ball and it's done on a subconscious level. LD shafts are OK for beginners who want to make balls right away, but anyone who plays more than just once in a while will learn to adjust to any shaft with a little practice. And the bull about putting more english on the ball is nothing but hype! That's strictly a matter of where you hit the ball and the stroke you use.

 

[JoeyInCali]

How about in engines? You don't want all that vibration in engines do you? I guess that is why most all engines have a harmonic balancer.
In racing engines or performance engines they high tech harmonic balancers like the Fluid Dampener. You don't want all that vibration in the crank and I certainly don't want it in my shaft. That is energy that can be used in the cue ball. That is why you can get more juice on the ball with different shafts. Some shafts apply the energy to the cue ball while others are applying it to vibrating through out the shaft. Seem like a waste of energy to me! Besides I don't need the feedback from my cue in the form of vibration. (Or mores code for that matter) I can see with my eyes what is going on.

Then how come the Meucci you mentioned vibrated more than most shafts ?

If your shaft stays on the ball longer. IT WILL HAVE TO BUCKLE more than conventional shafts. The cueball isn't going to magically stick to the tip of a shaft that is as stiff as other shafts.

 

[JoeyInCali]

If you have to think about the compensation, you're lost anyway. As any of the old timers will tell you, you learn to shoot where you need to to make the ball and it's done on a subconscious level. LD shafts are OK for beginners who want to make balls right away, but anyone who plays more than just once in a while will learn to adjust to any shaft with a little practice. And the bull about putting more english on the ball is nothing but hype! That's strictly a matter of where you hit the ball and the stroke you use.

12 MM tip, backhand english and stroke-slip ought to get "lucky". :grin-square:

 

[Scott Lee]

Mark...I just ran across a couple of 30 yr old real French Champion tips. I wonder if they're still playable? They have been kept out of the heat and sunlight for the whole time. Would a durometer tell me if they're still good to play with? I also tried playing with those rubber 'Future' tips. I didn't mind them, but I could never get them to stay on my cue very long. They were 'springy' as heck though.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Back in the good Ole college days. In the days of the original French champions, I actually put (experimented with a rubber Tip. It would rocket balls at the pockets-but anything outside of exactly dead center,It was uncontrollable. mark

 

[peter_gunn]

Just curious, why do you feel that way? When you are playing pool and lets say the object ball is a diamond away from the pocket and the cue ball is at the other end of the table and you you have to load up on some inside English for shape. Is it not easier to pocket the ball as if you were hitting center than to try and figure out how much to compensate for the cue ball deflection? I feel that my game goes up when I take these variables out of the game. After all, are we not looking for consistency?

I don't compensate... just play that shot like cb center using pivot technique.

Tell me how do u compensate the same position shot with outside english?

 

[perspicaz]

How about in engines? You don't want all that vibration in engines do you? I guess that is why most all engines have a harmonic balancer.
In racing engines or performance engines they high tech harmonic balancers like the Fluid Dampener. You don't want all that vibration in the crank and I certainly don't want it in my shaft. That is energy that can be used in the cue ball. That is why you can get more juice on the ball with different shafts. Some shafts apply the energy to the cue ball while others are applying it to vibrating through out the shaft. Seem like a waste of energy to me! Besides I don't need the feedback from my cue in the form of vibration. (Or mores code for that matter) I can see with my eyes what is going on.

A vibration dampening material or device converts some movement (vibration) into heat usually. This means that a vibration damped cue does not have any 'additional' energy to put on the cue ball; in order to waste less energy in vibration you would have to avoid the vibrations from occurring not dampening them.
Besides I don't think saving energy is such a concern when cueing... my arm's movement is pretty cheap

Also, cue feedback is very important for two reasons:
- A satisfying feedback makes the player feel better about his game and the psychological aspects are huge in playing better.
- Many people anticipate the cue force needed by imagining the feedback required for that particular shot. A good example of this is Jimmy Reid's 8 ball video where he states that he 'imagines the sound' of the shot to gauge stroke strength.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I don't compensate... just play that shot like cb center using pivot technique.

Tell me how do u compensate the same position shot with outside english?

What shot are you guys talking about?

 

[TX Poolnut]

First of all, regarding the bats, the corked bats allowed the bat to flex. This flexing pole vaulted the base ball. kind of like a bow and arrow. The flexing of the bat added to the power.

Where did you get this information about the physics of corked bats?

Everthing I have ever learned about corking a bat flies in the face of what you claim.

In fact, a corked bat offers the hitter LESS power since it has slightly less mass. The center of mass moves a little bit toward the handle meaning that the inertia of the bat would decrease and it would be easier to swing around. Less mass and lower inertia means faster swing speed.

Baseball players don't cork bats to get them to flex. Corked bats offer the hitter less power, but more swing speed without using a substantially lighter bat.

By the way, your cues look beautiful.

 

[Barioni Cues]

If you have to think about the compensation, you're lost anyway. As any of the old timers will tell you, you learn to shoot where you need to to make the ball and it's done on a subconscious level. LD shafts are OK for beginners who want to make balls right away, but anyone who plays more than just once in a while will learn to adjust to any shaft with a little practice. And the bull about putting more english on the ball is nothing but hype! That's strictly a matter of where you hit the ball and the stroke you use.

Hi Sherm,
I assure you, no hype here. You just stated "LD shafts are OK for beginners who want to make balls right away" You also stated "but anyone who plays more than just once in a while will learn to adjust to any shaft with a little practice" My question is, wouldn't it be easier to adjust to a LD shaft since beginners that only play once in a while could make balls right away? Why couldn't an advanced player who plays more than just once in a while learn to adjust to a LD shaft with a little practice? By the way, Mike Massey plays with a preditor shaft. He seems to like the LD shaft.

 

[Barioni Cues]

I don't compensate... just play that shot like cb center using pivot technique.

Tell me how do u compensate the same position shot with outside english?

OK, I totally understand what your talking about. The pivot is compensating for the cue ball deflection. Buddy Hall calls this tuck and roll. That works just fine on medium cue ball deflecting shafts. How ever it does not work quite as well for high cue ball deflecting shafts. Try that technique with a Cutec and see what I mean. To answer your question about how I make that shot- I just use side english and aim like center ball. No pivot or coming off line, no adjusting and no compensating. I shoot my english shots the same way I shoot center ball. If you use the pivot technique with my cues you could miss the pocket depending on how tight the pocket is.

 

[Barioni Cues]

Then how come the Meucci you mentioned vibrated more than most shafts ?

If your shaft stays on the ball longer. IT WILL HAVE TO BUCKLE more than conventional shafts. The cueball isn't going to magically stick to the tip of a shaft that is as stiff as other shafts.

You are absolutely correct Joey, My shafts are designed to buckle. My shafts are not stiff. At least for the cues! This buckle it what help the cue ball to go straight and not squirt off. The lightening of the shaft to decrease the mass also helps. It is a combination of the two. Their is also one other thing but I see no need to discuss that now.

 

[peter_gunn]

To answer your question about how I make that shot- I just use side english and aim like center ball.

Disagree. I try predator, mezz hybrid pro2 and OB LD shafts. I'm maybe doing something wrong (and lot of my friend's also) but when i play with outside english with LD shafts must compensate greatly.
I ask other community members.. do u fell that way?

(sorry for my tarzan english ,,, i play better than speak tho ^^)

 

[Barioni Cues]

What shot are you guys talking about?

Hey Bro!
The shot I was talking about is a table length inside english shot. Object ball a diamond from the corner pocket, cue ball on the head string. About a 90 speed players shot. Simply pocket the object ball and have the cue ball come around. You would use this shot if you were playing position and got on the wrong side of the ball. This shot would put you back in line but depending who you were playing may kill your action.

 

[Barioni Cues]

Where did you get this information about the physics of corked bats?

Everthing I have ever learned about corking a bat flies in the face of what you claim.

In fact, a corked bat offers the hitter LESS power since it has slightly less mass. The center of mass moves a little bit toward the handle meaning that the inertia of the bat would decrease and it would be easier to swing around. Less mass and lower inertia means faster swing speed.

Baseball players don't cork bats to get them to flex. Corked bats offer the hitter less power, but more swing speed without using a substantially lighter bat.

By the way, your cues look beautiful.

Thanks for the complement! If what you are saying is true, Why is it such an advantage that they banned it from baseball. If it is truly less power, the addition of more swing speed would only compensate for the loss of power. At this point nothing would be gained. I tested this with my cues and I got a substantial amount of power after the procedure was done. The study was done by not just me but also advanced, semi pro pool players and a physicists majors as well. He stated that it is the added power of the bow or boing. That extra energy. He used the analogy of a pole vault. A flexible pole will propel a person higher than a stiff pole that does not flex. I am not completely sure how it all works because I am not a physicist but I do know what it does for my cues. Every one that plays or hit with my cues also knows. Thanks again for the complements and your input on this matter.

 

[poolplayer2093]

Hey Bro!
The shot I was talking about is a table length inside english shot. Object ball a diamond from the corner pocket, cue ball on the head string. About a 90 speed players shot. Simply pocket the object ball and have the cue ball come around. You would use this shot if you were playing position and got on the wrong side of the ball. This shot would put you back in line but depending who you were playing may kill your action.

i'm having a hard time picturing it. it's not your fault though. it's a mix of my imagination being killed by years of tv and me not being a 90 speed player

 

[Barioni Cues]

Disagree. I try predator, mezz hybrid pro2 and OB LD shafts. I'm maybe doing something wrong (and lot of my friend's also) but when i play with outside english with LD shafts must compensate greatly.
I ask other community members.. do u fell that way?

(sorry for my tarzan english ,,, i play better than speak tho ^^)

Mike Massey uses Preditor. I don't see him doing all that much compensating. I was talking about inside english any way. 40 speeds don't even have that much trouble with out side english. If your compensating with a LD such as Preditor or OB then you must have some other problems. Maybe your dominant eye is not over your shaft. Maybe you are not 90 at contact. Maybe your chicken winged. Make sure you are correct on all these basics. If your still having this problem see a coach.

 

[Barioni Cues]

i'm having a hard time picturing it. it's not your fault though. it's a mix of my imagination being killed by years of tv and me not being a 90 speed player

I'll show you in person next time I see you. I'll show you my latest ferrules also. You liked the last ones I know you will love these. I was at Break time last WED. Didn't see you there. Do you play there much. Hey do you know Bobby Tyler or Russel Corrolo?

 

[poolplayer2093]

I'll show you in person next time I see you. I'll show you my latest ferrules also. You liked the last ones I know you will love these. I was at Break time last WED. Didn't see you there. Do you play there much. Hey do you know Bobby Tyler or Russel Corrolo?

yeah i know bobby tyler. i liked the cue you made for him too!

bobby's always trying to get me in the box (barbox) but i can't fade his break so i don't want to do it. yet.

if i ever start playing regular again i'll try him out some but until then i gotta pass.

i don't get out to modesto a whole lot these days. the last couple of times i was there i ended up at diamond and then went to brandon's.