Disregard, didnt read above post's.
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Do not do business with Chas Clements, or you will loose your money!!!
- Thread starter manwon
- Start date
This will be my last post to this thread, I am grateful for John's offer because without it I would most likely not have recovered my money. I will again say that it was not my intent to start a mud fest by starting this thread, I only wanted to get back what I was owed nothing more.
However, while I can sympathize with Mr. Clements health problems as they are today, I do feel that the problem I encountered with him was not all due to his health. When I ordered my case I was asked to pay up front, and I was given a time frame for completion of the work I paid for. I was very excited to have the opportunity to own a case from a famous case maker like Chas, so I posted the fact on AZ that he had agreed to build me a case.
Now that's where the problems started, people started sending me Pm's telling me what happened to them. I was even told by a forum member that the time line I was given not any good because I would have to wait in line to get my case. Now I was thinking at this point what have I gotten myself into here, I have forum members not involved in my transaction with some one telling me things like this. I was encouraged to not rock the boat on this because it would serve no purpose, and I was also asked that if I did decide to mention this to not mention their names.
I forgive Chas for how he handled this situation with me, but I do not give him a pass. When he took my money he knew what he was doing, I could understand and have more sympathy for his actions if he had not given me a time frame and just told me I was on a list but that is not how it was handled by PM or on the phone. In my opinion he certainly made some bad choices, that his current situation has nothing to do with.
Again thanks John for your help, I do appreciate it and I have contacted both Paypal and my bank and stopped all actions against Mr Clements. This should clear any block on his Paypal account, if it doesn't please let me know I will handle it.
In closing I hope who ever reads this understands what can happen if you choose to not bring things to the attention of other forum members. If this information had been available I would have never been involved in this situation. Please never forget while not rocking the boat can be a good thing, sometimes it takes a storm to make others aware of problems they deserve to know about to protect themselves.
Thanks to everyone.
However, while I can sympathize with Mr. Clements health problems as they are today, I do feel that the problem I encountered with him was not all due to his health. When I ordered my case I was asked to pay up front, and I was given a time frame for completion of the work I paid for. I was very excited to have the opportunity to own a case from a famous case maker like Chas, so I posted the fact on AZ that he had agreed to build me a case.
Now that's where the problems started, people started sending me Pm's telling me what happened to them. I was even told by a forum member that the time line I was given not any good because I would have to wait in line to get my case. Now I was thinking at this point what have I gotten myself into here, I have forum members not involved in my transaction with some one telling me things like this. I was encouraged to not rock the boat on this because it would serve no purpose, and I was also asked that if I did decide to mention this to not mention their names.
I forgive Chas for how he handled this situation with me, but I do not give him a pass. When he took my money he knew what he was doing, I could understand and have more sympathy for his actions if he had not given me a time frame and just told me I was on a list but that is not how it was handled by PM or on the phone. In my opinion he certainly made some bad choices, that his current situation has nothing to do with.
Again thanks John for your help, I do appreciate it and I have contacted both Paypal and my bank and stopped all actions against Mr Clements. This should clear any block on his Paypal account, if it doesn't please let me know I will handle it.
In closing I hope who ever reads this understands what can happen if you choose to not bring things to the attention of other forum members. If this information had been available I would have never been involved in this situation. Please never forget while not rocking the boat can be a good thing, sometimes it takes a storm to make others aware of problems they deserve to know about to protect themselves.
Thanks to everyone.
Well in the end the AZB Community came threw, and hopefully everyone is happy. So now Craig is out nothing, Two AZB Member refund him his money as I understand, so he got all his fund back. Another party will get a very nice cue Case from John Barton.:wink:
Now if I could just get this relative who I loaned money too over four years ago, to start sending me $5.00 a month for the next 555 months, to show some good faith & pay me back, but than I realized about two years ago he had no intention of honoring his promise to repay me.
Cowboy, I said I was not going to post again but your post needs some correction. Two forum members did not refund me money, Smokey is my friend and I would not take his money under any circumstances, even though his offer was from the heart and very genuine. So I am still out $250, but that is nothing and well worth the lesson I have learned, so in the future please read before you post.
Thanks Craig
$250 lesson learned and im sure this will save quit a few people some money, JB included.
Cowboy, I said I was not going to post again but your post needs some correction. Two forum members did not refund me money, Smokey is my friend and I would not take his money under any circumstances, even though his offer was from the heart and very genuine. So I am still out $250, but that is nothing and well worth the lesson I have learned, so in the future please read before you post.
Thanks Craig
Well I read where Smokey was sending you money, you choose not to take the offer because of friendship,:wink: that was your choice,:wink: I not realize that. So it proves I am not a perfect reader.
Sorry you are out as you say 250.00 BUCKS!From John Barton's report on his friends medical condition, I am sure Chas Clements would love to be free from his heath problems, and doing what does very well. That being build product one at a time out of leather, and having happy customers.
Heath problems suck, sometime all the money is the world is not as important as being free from major heath problems. Money can buy the best health care, but it can not buy good health.
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John;
I accept your apology though I don't feel anything you said rose to the level of your having to offer me one.
It's unfortunate that my sharing my opinion translates to your thinking I'm kicking a man when he's down. Someone here on this thread said he, too, was wronged by Chas back in 2002. Regardless of whether this is the premier leather worker of all time, right is right, wrong is wrong, and I do not feel illness should provide a free pass. Especially if this has become a recurring theme.
The reason I got back into pool was largely the result of my illness. I became sick in 1995 and it continues to a much lesser degree today. The first 6 or 7 years were a real *****. I have been left with an immune system run amok. They call it autoimmunity, triggered by the infection. Aside from all of the hospitalizations, PICC lines delivering meds directly into my heart, Avastin injections into the eyeballs (ever heard the saying it's better than a sharp stick in the eye? this is not better, it's exactly like a sharp stick in the eye
Why I said my illness was the reason I got back into pool was because my vision was going very wavy due to leaking blood vessels behind the eye and so I thought I had better get busy, not knowing how much time I'd be able to see well. This, too, is being managed, I'll be getting another eyeball treatment in a week or two. Can I please have the 7 and out? :grin:
This is starting to feel like 'too much info sharing' and a bit of a hijack of the thread.
I'll end my involvement here with the following suggestion:
Keep a positive outlook, even when you're dealt a bad hand, and always try to do the right thing. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
i do that my friend as best as i am able...
and it is such good advice
thank you for saying, best,
smokey
Kum Bay Ya!
I'm very glad you brought your problem with Chas to this forum. It stopped any potential problems for others in its tracks, it shows people that there are correct ways to deal with these type of problems, it illuminated just how finicky the hand of fate can be and it opened the door for some people to help out others and except for the looming health issues its been a Kum Bay Ya kind of thread. :grin:
I'm very glad you brought your problem with Chas to this forum. It stopped any potential problems for others in its tracks, it shows people that there are correct ways to deal with these type of problems, it illuminated just how finicky the hand of fate can be and it opened the door for some people to help out others and except for the looming health issues its been a Kum Bay Ya kind of thread. :grin:
i really need to set you straingt coco...
i knew there was not a prayer in hell that manwon would take the money, but none the less, i really didn't want him to be hurt. pls understand and take into consideration that when my wife was ill, and for the first time in my life i was panicked, manwon was my mentor to get me thru it all. and i am not a man subject to panic even if it would cost me my life. i've been there...
just let me say this, it was "implicit" [spoken without words] between manwon and me so the additional 250 was sent to Chas [500 in total] and really because of JB a man i greatly respect].
pls re-read chicken's post where he said in essence that even a 20 was requested back and read between the lines so you can see the heartache he still endures...
i think you did a great job for the boys & girls club in your area, but i must also say, we are very different in our philosophies of life
all the best,
smokey
Well I read where Smokey was sending you money, you choose not to take the offer because of friendship,:wink: that was your choice,:wink: I not realize that. So it proves I am not a perfect reader.
From John Barton's report on his friends medical condition, I am sure Chas Clements would love to be free from his heath problems, and doing what does very well. That being build product one at a time out of leather, and having happy customers.
Heath problems suck, sometime all the money is the world is not as important as being free from major heath problems. Money can buy the best health care, but it can not buy good health.
i knew there was not a prayer in hell that manwon would take the money, but none the less, i really didn't want him to be hurt. pls understand and take into consideration that when my wife was ill, and for the first time in my life i was panicked, manwon was my mentor to get me thru it all. and i am not a man subject to panic even if it would cost me my life. i've been there...
just let me say this, it was "implicit" [spoken without words] between manwon and me so the additional 250 was sent to Chas [500 in total] and really because of JB a man i greatly respect].
pls re-read chicken's post where he said in essence that even a 20 was requested back and read between the lines so you can see the heartache he still endures...
i think you did a great job for the boys & girls club in your area, but i must also say, we are very different in our philosophies of life
all the best,
smokey
We are who we are because the paths we walked to get us to where we are. I always have a project, the Boys & Girls Club is a past project because the goal I hoped for was reached,:wink: and than some.:smile:
The new project is all about our Local VA Medical Center, and helping Hospitalized, and Homeless Veterans of Service to our great country.
NUFF SAID!
Hi Smokey;
I just wanted to clear up that when I said my buddies were asking me for money they said they loaned me during my neurological stupor, they were just joking with me. It was a happy time for them seeing me coming out the other side of what was in essence, an awake version of a coma.
I appreciated their humor immensely.
And I also appreciate your unselfish offer to help Craig with his shortfall on the case deal.
Best,
Brian kc
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hey chick...
i can say that i am really happy i was wrong...
i am so happy to know that.
but at the same time as i said in my greenie to you, thank you so much for putting yourself out there for all of us to see and learn by.
like i said, your honesty and honor is an example for us all.
maybe we can't find "perfect agreement" with regards to this thread and we find ourselves on opposite ends of the 'point' in question, as maybe Charlie E. and i do too on this point, you are both imho men of great character, and despite my age and recently becoming a Grandfather to my little Ethen, i still find that i learn new things everyday...
and i am grateful for knowing you and Charlie; and John and manwon and all of my dear friends on az
the deeds were done = the money paid and now i will just thank all of you azb'er's & Mr. Wilson for allowing me to be a part of you all. i will check out now from this thread, my best to all,
smokey
i can say that i am really happy i was wrong...
i am so happy to know that.
but at the same time as i said in my greenie to you, thank you so much for putting yourself out there for all of us to see and learn by.
like i said, your honesty and honor is an example for us all.
maybe we can't find "perfect agreement" with regards to this thread and we find ourselves on opposite ends of the 'point' in question, as maybe Charlie E. and i do too on this point, you are both imho men of great character, and despite my age and recently becoming a Grandfather to my little Ethen, i still find that i learn new things everyday...
and i am grateful for knowing you and Charlie; and John and manwon and all of my dear friends on az
the deeds were done = the money paid and now i will just thank all of you azb'er's & Mr. Wilson for allowing me to be a part of you all. i will check out now from this thread, my best to all,
smokey
No problem Craig. you are also a gentleman.
You are no longer funny to me.. I'm proud to have a name "Dedy"...
Well, I am happy to report that thanks to several Denver area AZ'ers the money that has thus far been donated to Chas will be delivered in person a few days later. Chas is encouraged and deeply grateful. He has agreed to assist me in every way that it's possible for him to do so in order for me create cases for his customers.
This place is amazing and we don't do enough to highlight the postive people. I have just had the most amazing paradigm shift about this.
We have epic threads about how bad things are and how negative and nasty some people are and this mirrors life in general as we all focus on the bad and not on the good. When things are good we take it for granted and don't count our blessings and when things are bad we rant for days about it.
I could go on and on, one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.....etc.....and it's true. Pyschologically it's so easy to latch onto the negativity and flow that way and much harder to just throw it away like the spoiled apple and not dwell on it.
So again, thank you to all the Amazing, Wonderful, truly AWESOME and INSPIRING people on this forum. The way you have stepped up to help a stranger in crisis, someone who needs your encouragement most of all, has been truly nothing short of incredible. The money is sorely needed and will go towards keeping things going. For me though I have also been given a huge dose of hope for Chas through Jim and Brian's stories. This type of community sharing and support is what the net should be about.
And Chas was also uplifted by hearing of others who are able to be productive in their lives when dealing with similar situations.
Craig, you are also fair and generous and I am glad it was able to be resolved for you.
Dedy, we shall be talking.
Joerg, I have good news for you.
I guess that's it. The only thing left is to show off progress down the road.
This place is amazing and we don't do enough to highlight the postive people. I have just had the most amazing paradigm shift about this.
We have epic threads about how bad things are and how negative and nasty some people are and this mirrors life in general as we all focus on the bad and not on the good. When things are good we take it for granted and don't count our blessings and when things are bad we rant for days about it.
I could go on and on, one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.....etc.....and it's true. Pyschologically it's so easy to latch onto the negativity and flow that way and much harder to just throw it away like the spoiled apple and not dwell on it.
So again, thank you to all the Amazing, Wonderful, truly AWESOME and INSPIRING people on this forum. The way you have stepped up to help a stranger in crisis, someone who needs your encouragement most of all, has been truly nothing short of incredible. The money is sorely needed and will go towards keeping things going. For me though I have also been given a huge dose of hope for Chas through Jim and Brian's stories. This type of community sharing and support is what the net should be about.
And Chas was also uplifted by hearing of others who are able to be productive in their lives when dealing with similar situations.
Craig, you are also fair and generous and I am glad it was able to be resolved for you.
Dedy, we shall be talking.
Joerg, I have good news for you.
I guess that's it. The only thing left is to show off progress down the road.
You are wrong.
This is also an attack on a good AZ poster and is completely against all we stand for.
In the future, keep your thoughts to your self unless you have some facts to support your wild allegations.
This is a warning.
Quote from JB "We have epic threads about how bad things are and how negative and nasty some people are and this mirrors life in general as we all focus on the bad and not on the good. When things are good we take it for granted and don't count our blessings and when things are bad we rant for days about it.
I could go on and on, one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.....etc.....and it's true. Pyschologically it's so easy to latch onto the negativity and flow that way and much harder to just throw it away like the spoiled apple and not dwell on it."
You've got it absoloutely right John.
People who are recovering from addictions have had to learn to, as much as humanly possible, drop negativity or be in danger of a relapse. In the course of protecting myself from relapse I discovered the secret to being truly happy... BE GREATEFUL!
Being grateful brings a feeling of great fullness and nothing from the outside is needed to be happy. All it takes is living in the moment.
I reported a few days back that we were being attacked by the IRS. Well, the IRS didn't destroy me/us. It will smart for a few months but we'll be ok down the road a piece.. in fact... we're ok today, right NOW! :groucho:
I could go on and on, one bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch.....etc.....and it's true. Pyschologically it's so easy to latch onto the negativity and flow that way and much harder to just throw it away like the spoiled apple and not dwell on it."
You've got it absoloutely right John.
People who are recovering from addictions have had to learn to, as much as humanly possible, drop negativity or be in danger of a relapse. In the course of protecting myself from relapse I discovered the secret to being truly happy... BE GREATEFUL!
Being grateful brings a feeling of great fullness and nothing from the outside is needed to be happy. All it takes is living in the moment.
I reported a few days back that we were being attacked by the IRS. Well, the IRS didn't destroy me/us. It will smart for a few months but we'll be ok down the road a piece.. in fact... we're ok today, right NOW! :groucho:
Craig, I know you think that people, like myself, that had long ago had cases on order from Chas should have posted our experience with him on this forum. But remember, at that time we were simply waiting for a case to be made. At the time you posted about the order you made I was hoping Chas' health would someday improve and he would start working again. I had no idea he was again taking orders until you posted that you had ordered a case from him.
As a matter of fact I was pleased that he had taken your order... because that would have meant that he was well enough to start case making again. That just turned out to be untrue. And for that he doesn't deserve a pass from anyone, IMO.
I just wanted to point those things out to you. I don't feel at fault here, at all, for not ''outing'' Chas. At least now I know not to hold out any hope of ever getting anything from him. But I can live with that, as I have no other choice.
Thanks Charlie, I do not feel that way at all, I was just making a point that in my opinion it is necessary sometimes to bring things out in the open. I am sorry that you also lost money, it seems that there are a number of people even beyond those I knew of. I hope you except my apology if what I said was insulting or demeaning to you it was not my intention to do that, and I completely agree that no one should feel at fault except Chas. I only hope that our membership takes pause and reflects on how important it is to treat each other like we would want to be treated.
I applaud John for his contribution, and I totally respect him for standing up for a friend and for pulling him out of a fire, I only hope Chas appreciates it and that John's good gesture doesn't cost him to much. Smokey well nothing needs to be said he has done more than others will ever know for many forum members in need, he is selfless and he has the biggest heart of anyone I know. I also have to say that I have made another friend throughout this situation and that is Dedy, if not for him and John myself and others would have had no chance at restitution.
Hopefully everyone has learned something from this and most importantly what has been learned will not be forgotten in the future. I also hope that some will think before they involved themselves in the business of others, sometimes it is better to say nothing and leave people guessing than to prove you have no clue.
Thanks to everyone
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I've known for a long time that John stands behind his friends, in the case, Chas. This is costing him a lot of money - out of his own pocket - he going to eat thousands on this - that's lot of Yuan, the equivalent of tens of thousands of dollars, but he will figure out a way to make it work. John is the one who lost money here.
There were a couple of situations working with me when I was working on history, I fell for some BS that landed us both in strange territory. John caught some heat thanks to my mistakes. He could have mistrusted my intent, or blamed me, or pointed out my gullibility, or exploited my error, but he instead very carefully consulted me and we worked together as a team to deal with an unpleasant situation.
He's the kind of friend who will go to bat for you no matter if you're wrong. It's not because he doesn't know better - it's because he's loyal to his friends.
So I trust John, and more importantly, I think he trusts me. He is a great contact to have, and he is a good friend to have too.
Everybody here finally saw what John Barton is truly like as a person.
Chris
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