John Brumback visits Betmore's Basement

Williebetmore

Member, .25% Club
Silver Member
Just a report for Joey A...like I promised. I'll post some photo's later if I can.

John Brumback, the bank pool legend and newly elected (but not yet inducted) member of the Bank Pool Hall of Fame, was gracious enough to visit for 2 days of bank pool lessons (with some one pocket strategy and technique interspersed). John was the one GIVING the lessons...just to clarify.

Elvicash was able to attend for most of the lessons, and I'm hopeful that he got as much out of it as I did. We had a TREMENDOUS couple of days with great pool, great instruction, great food, and great conversation. Had several really enjoyable meals with the local pro players; all quite impressed with John's level of play and accomplishments.

I think that between elvicash and I, the two of us have read probably every pool book written. What John covers in his lessons is not available from any of the sources we have seen. We were very pleased that he was willing to share. There is NO substitute for hands-on training when it comes to high level banking.

I think it would be quite safe to assume that no one on the planet knows any more about bank pool than John. He was extremely pleasant and knowledgeable. I learned more about banks in 2 days than I thought possible ("if you knew what you didn't know, then you wouldn't 'not know it'" as Danny D. always says).

He was quite persuasive in presenting the principles of maximizing your success rate on a large variety of banks. He also covered the differences in bank technique required when playing different games or when the score of a game demands a specific change in strategy. My bank game improved enormously in only a couple of sessions (not to say it was great before, but it wasn't terrible).

I have always rated my pool lessons by how I feel afterwards. If I feel like a "kid with a new toy", and just can't wait to get to the table to work on the new material; then the lesson was a resounding success in my book. Further, if I feel that there is no way I could have learned the material on my own in a thousand years of self-directed practice, then I'm ECSTATIC about the lessons. Also, lessons are 10 times better if you get the feeling that the instructor is sincerely interested and enthusiastic in teaching, and is truly a "pool fanatic."

Johns lessons qualify on all the above counts as some of the best I've had (and I've had exposure to quite a number of great instructors - Jeanette Lee, George Breedlove, Mark Wilson, Jerry Briesath, Danny DiLiberto, Grady Mathews, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, and sjm). He really went overboard, teaching into the wee hours of each morning even though he didn't "have to."

If you are interested in learning basic, intermediate, or advanced bank techniques, bank pool strategy, one pocket strategy or damn near anything else about pool - DEFINITELY take some lessons from John. A big TWO THUMBS UP.
 
How much????

How Much does John charge for lessons? Does he have any specific or hourly rates?
 
Just a report for Joey A...like I promised. I'll post some photo's later if I can.

John Brumback, the bank pool legend and newly elected (but not yet inducted) member of the Bank Pool Hall of Fame, was gracious enough to visit for 2 days of bank pool lessons (with some one pocket strategy and technique interspersed). John was the one GIVING the lessons...just to clarify.

Elvicash was able to attend for most of the lessons, and I'm hopeful that he got as much out of it as I did. We had a TREMENDOUS couple of days with great pool, great instruction, great food, and great conversation. Had several really enjoyable meals with the local pro players; all quite impressed with John's level of play and accomplishments.

I think that between elvicash and I, the two of us have read probably every pool book written. What John covers in his lessons is not available from any of the sources we have seen. We were very pleased that he was willing to share. There is NO substitute for hands-on training when it comes to high level banking.

I think it would be quite safe to assume that no one on the planet knows any more about bank pool than John. He was extremely pleasant and knowledgeable. I learned more about banks in 2 days than I thought possible ("if you knew what you didn't know, then you wouldn't 'not know it'" as Danny D. always says).

He was quite persuasive in presenting the principles of maximizing your success rate on a large variety of banks. He also covered the differences in bank technique required when playing different games or when the score of a game demands a specific change in strategy. My bank game improved enormously in only a couple of sessions (not to say it was great before, but it wasn't terrible).

I have always rated my pool lessons by how I feel afterwards. If I feel like a "kid with a new toy", and just can't wait to get to the table to work on the new material; then the lesson was a resounding success in my book. Further, if I feel that there is no way I could have learned the material on my own in a thousand years of self-directed practice, then I'm ECSTATIC about the lessons. Also, lessons are 10 times better if you get the feeling that the instructor is sincerely interested and enthusiastic in teaching, and is truly a "pool fanatic."

Johns lessons qualify on all the above counts as some of the best I've had (and I've had exposure to quite a number of great instructors - Jeanette Lee, George Breedlove, Mark Wilson, Jerry Briesath, Danny DiLiberto, Grady Mathews, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, and sjm). He really went overboard, teaching into the wee hours of each morning even though he didn't "have to."

If you are interested in learning basic, intermediate, or advanced bank techniques, bank pool strategy, one pocket strategy or damn near anything else about pool - DEFINITELY take some lessons from John. A big TWO THUMBS UP.


Thanks for the warning. I won't be playing anymore Banks with you Willie B.! :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the warning. I won't be playing anymore Banks with you Willie B.! :thumbup:

JH,
I'm fairly certain that you are "safe" from me for quite a while; though I would love to see you and John compete (I'll provide the beer...).

I am of the opinion that instructors should not be heavily graded based on the performance of their students - IT'S UP TO THE PLAYER TO DEVELOP HIS GAME. I'm certainly trying, and would be happy to play some banks with any player, any time - the only condition is that they love the game.

I don't know what was in the water over there in that Kentucky/Cincinnati/Ohio area you came from, but it must have been good for developing champion bankers.
 
How Much does John charge for lessons? Does he have any specific or hourly rates?

You would have to discuss specifics with John. We are notoriously cheap, and tried to weasel out of paying him any more than we had to; and tried to work him as long as we possibly could (stay up late, late, late...get up early, early, early...pool in between).

I felt his rates were very reasonable. I've paid more for lessons.
 
Thanks for the report, nice to hear about someone really doing
what it takes to get to the next level......:thumbup:
 
Also just a note - I forget that there are those posters here that don't religiously attend the DCC. John B. has won the banks tourney there 2 years in a row, and has won the all-around title at least once as well.

Anyone who doubts his proficiency should check out the Accu-Stats DVD of his finals match with Efren in 2010. Hate to give away the ending, but Efren gets torched. If you are able to torch Efren at any contest on the pool table, you can't be too unhappy with the state of your game.
 
Also just a note - I forget that there are those posters here that don't religiously attend the DCC. John B. has won the banks tourney there 2 years in a row, and has won the all-around title at least once as well.

Anyone who doubts his proficiency should check out the Accu-Stats DVD of his finals match with Efren in 2010. Hate to give away the ending, but Efren gets torched. If you are able to torch Efren at any contest on the pool table, you can't be too unhappy with the state of your game.

He is a champion 4 sure
 
Thanks for the report, nice to hear about someone really doing
what it takes to get to the next level......:thumbup:

PPD,
While I really have no idea of my level; I can assure you that it would be a poor student indeed who did not increase it after a lesson with John.

It may seem a bit presumptive of me (given my very modest level of play), but I would think that the pro players could increase their level at bank pool by applying some of John's principles and techniques. Actually I am quite convinced of it.
 
PPD,
While I really have no idea of my level; I can assure you that it would be a poor student indeed who did not increase it after a lesson with John.

It may seem a bit presumptive of me (given my very modest level of play), but I would think that the pro players could increase their level at bank pool by applying some of John's principles and techniques. Actually I am quite convinced of it.

I couldn't agree more
 
John Brumback Thanks alot I worked on some of those shots today and they are solid on my table. I shot quite a few repeatedly and was getting consistent on my old gold crown. The balls turned real well, paying attention to the CB helped alot. I am a better banker today in my head. Now I have to make those skills more automatic groove them.

For anyone interested in learning to bank I would have to reccomend John as a fine teacher. He really made me feel good as he set up various banks at the limit where they would go and he worked with us until we could make the shots. After just two days, I am turning the ball, whipping the ball and curving it off the rail around balls in the bank track.

The lessons was for two days gaining knowledge from a man that is just a real pleasure to be around. He is going into the Hall of Fame this year at the Derby and he desrves it as he is a real class champion.

Thanks Betmore for setting this up and thanks again John.
 
Hey guys!! Wow,I just can't thank ya'll enough for all the great compliments!!!!!!!! That just makes me so glad that you guys are so pleased with the instructions.I really mean that!!! Let me just say that you ALL were a real PLEASURE to work with!!!!!

And boy, did I have a great time!! You all could not have made me feel anymore comfortable! That hospitallity that you gave me was some of THE BEST I have ever had!

If anyone who likes pool and good times you need to get with these guys.I have heard of williebetmore's basement for along time.That man loves pool more than anyone I have EVER been around!!! And what a pool players dream house and poolroom this guy has.WOW is the only way I can describe It. And man,did we have some good food,good times good drinks, and just shooting the breeze.It was unreal really. He has more pool stuff IE:pool pics,pool books,pool gadgets,pool this, pool that,you get the Idea..UNREAL!!! Willebetmore is right up there with Fatboy when It comes to loving pool!! I just can' say It enough, what a good time we had!!!!!!

And to Elvicash...I know you didn't get to stay there for the whole time but I'm pretty sure you got THE Main method to take you as far as you want to go to be a GREAT banker!! You all just picked up on It so fast.I'm glad to hear that you were able to take It right to your table and start right off making the banks like I showed you!! Thanks so much for saying that.I'm really glad to hear It!!!! Oh,and don't let Willie hoard all those notes he wrote down.hehehe.

Onemore thing...As I was on my way home and thinking about being there,
I think we should make this an annual event..you know, so you don't forget anything that I showed you guys.Next one will be cheaper of course.hehehehehe Well,I'm going to say It onemore time..THANK YA'LL SO MUCH!!!LLooking forward to seeing you guys very soon.Thanks once again, John Brumback
 
Holy Mackerel, not a secret in the whole thread.

I read every single post in this thread, knowing that Willie Betmore was just teasing with his first post and that he would be giving up AT LEAST one or two of the bank pool secrets that John shared in TWO DAYS of bank pool lessons.

Sheesh! Some guys want to take it with 'em to their graves. :D

We already knew that John is THE BANK POOL CHAMPION! :wink:

Happy New Year!
 
Many dignitaries

Just a report for Joey A...like I promised. I'll post some photo's later if I can.

John Brumback, the bank pool legend and newly elected (but not yet inducted) member of the Bank Pool Hall of Fame, was gracious enough to visit for 2 days of bank pool lessons (with some one pocket strategy and technique interspersed). John was the one GIVING the lessons...just to clarify.

Elvicash was able to attend for most of the lessons, and I'm hopeful that he got as much out of it as I did. We had a TREMENDOUS couple of days with great pool, great instruction, great food, and great conversation. Had several really enjoyable meals with the local pro players; all quite impressed with John's level of play and accomplishments.

I think that between elvicash and I, the two of us have read probably every pool book written. What John covers in his lessons is not available from any of the sources we have seen. We were very pleased that he was willing to share. There is NO substitute for hands-on training when it comes to high level banking.

I think it would be quite safe to assume that no one on the planet knows any more about bank pool than John. He was extremely pleasant and knowledgeable. I learned more about banks in 2 days than I thought possible ("if you knew what you didn't know, then you wouldn't 'not know it'" as Danny D. always says).

He was quite persuasive in presenting the principles of maximizing your success rate on a large variety of banks. He also covered the differences in bank technique required when playing different games or when the score of a game demands a specific change in strategy. My bank game improved enormously in only a couple of sessions (not to say it was great before, but it wasn't terrible).

I have always rated my pool lessons by how I feel afterwards. If I feel like a "kid with a new toy", and just can't wait to get to the table to work on the new material; then the lesson was a resounding success in my book. Further, if I feel that there is no way I could have learned the material on my own in a thousand years of self-directed practice, then I'm ECSTATIC about the lessons. Also, lessons are 10 times better if you get the feeling that the instructor is sincerely interested and enthusiastic in teaching, and is truly a "pool fanatic."

Johns lessons qualify on all the above counts as some of the best I've had (and I've had exposure to quite a number of great instructors - Jeanette Lee, George Breedlove, Mark Wilson, Jerry Briesath, Danny DiLiberto, Grady Mathews, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, and sjm). He really went overboard, teaching into the wee hours of each morning even though he didn't "have to."

If you are interested in learning basic, intermediate, or advanced bank techniques, bank pool strategy, one pocket strategy or damn near anything else about pool - DEFINITELY take some lessons from John. A big TWO THUMBS UP.

Good report, as usual.
That basement has quite a history now!
 
I read every single post in this thread, knowing that Willie Betmore was just teasing with his first post and that he would be giving up AT LEAST one or two of the bank pool secrets that John shared in TWO DAYS of bank pool lessons.

Sheesh! Some guys want to take it with 'em to their graves. :D

Joey,
Well, since you insist, I'm going to give up 3 of the secrets that I learned this week that were quite a pleasant surprise (and will not help you a bit JA, you are just going to have to visit the Basement if you want it all).

#1 - It is NOT all about "feel". There are extremely detailed scientific principles involved in John's method. I found it a bit like straight pool - you can readily learn the "principles", but knowing how and when to apply them is the trick.

On many shots you will need to violate certain basic principles and follow a different one. Very complex, but manageable so far for me (I suspect I have much more to learn). If it was all feel then time is all anyone would need; there are definitely shortcuts to proficiency in banks. Many bank players know how to do it, but can't explain exactly why it works; or have gaps in their systems. No gaps were evident in John's methods.

#2 - "Feel" is really important. - I am quite certain that following John's advice will rapidly improve any bank player who follows it. The reason is that your "feel" is based on how you have struck the banks in the past; and comparing to the results achieved in the past. Once you use John's principles of maximizing success, and strike your banks the proper, highest yield way; your "feel" will improve by leaps and bounds. Consistency in striking banks the proper way will enable the student to achieve a higher level of success much more quickly than trying to "figure it out on their own."

#3 - It is NOT simple. - All students of the game understand the basic principles and physics involved with banking; and understand that under real life conditions "angle in = angle out" is not really the way it works. All students also understand the different ways that speed, English, distance from the rail, humidity, and table conditions affect these angles. Knowing how to incorporate these variables into your decisions is complex. Knowing how to vary your technique depending on the score of a game, or the type of game, or on the particular features of your opponent's game is also complex.

It is NOT simple enough to really get any useful information in a medium such as this. As admirable as Freddy's attempts at getting it onto paper are; it just is too difficult to convey in print. I am quite hopeful that John will get some video's out similar to John Schmidt's - that is a great way to get the message (but still not ideal). Until you can get him on the table and show you the stuff, you won't be sure you've "gotten it."

I was quite amazed at the difference even a half inch can make - you look at tapes and think you know where the balls are; but if you move them even a millimeter or two the results can be profoundly different. We spent significant amounts of time positioning and marking the balls perfectly to find the very limits of what is possible with "turning" banks - I don't think a book could ever convey the exactitude of John's play, nor the level of precision required to execute it - his level of precision is unbelieveable.
 
Good report, as usual.
That basement has quite a history now!

TA,
Yes, there are many similar notable places in history - Andersonville, Alcatraz, Folsom. Once we trapped John there, it was very difficult for him to escape - its the way we treat all traveling pool dignitaries...

P.S. - We did allow him a couple of breaks out in "the yard", and did allow a few visits from the local pros who insisted on coming once they heard that John was in town. We try to be humane after all...
 
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Joey,
Well, since you insist, I'm going to give up 3 of the secrets that I learned this week that were quite a pleasant surprise (and will not help you a bit JA, you are just going to have to visit the Basement if you want it all).

#1 - It is NOT all about "feel". There are extremely detailed scientific principles involved in John's method. I found it a bit like straight pool - you can readily learn the "principles", but knowing how and when to apply them is the trick.

On many shots you will need to violate certain basic principles and follow a different one. Very complex, but manageable so far for me (I suspect I have much more to learn). If it was all feel then time is all anyone would need; there are definitely shortcuts to proficiency in banks. Many bank players know how to do it, but can't explain exactly why it works; or have gaps in their systems. No gaps were evident in John's methods.

#2 - "Feel" is really important. - I am quite certain that following John's advice will rapidly improve any bank player who follows it. The reason is that your "feel" is based on how you have struck the banks in the past; and comparing to the results achieved in the past. Once you use John's principles of maximizing success, and strike your banks the proper, highest yield way; your "feel" will improve by leaps and bounds. Consistency in striking banks the proper way will enable the student to achieve a higher level of success much more quickly than trying to "figure it out on their own."

#3 - It is NOT simple. - All students of the game understand the basic principles and physics involved with banking; and understand that under real life conditions "angle in = angle out" is not really the way it works. All students also understand the different ways that speed, English, distance from the rail, humidity, and table conditions affect these angles. Knowing how to incorporate these variables into your decisions is complex. Knowing how to vary your technique depending on the score of a game, or the type of game, or on the particular features of your opponent's game is also complex.

It is NOT simple enough to really get any useful information in a medium such as this. As admirable as Freddy's attempts at getting it onto paper are; it just is too difficult to convey in print. I am quite hopeful that John will get some video's out similar to John Schmidt's - that is a great way to get the message (but still not ideal). Until you can get him on the table and show you the stuff, you won't be sure you've "gotten it."

I was quite amazed at the difference even a half inch can make - you look at tapes and think you know where the balls are; but if you move them even a millimeter or two the results can be profoundly different. We spent significant amounts of time positioning and marking the balls perfectly to find the very limits of what is possible with "turning" banks - I don't think a book could ever convey the exactitude of John's play, nor the level of precision required to execute it - his level of precision is unbelieveable.


You Know Willie...I couldn't have said that any better.You are a very smart man...for a pool player.Thank you.JB
 
Just a report for Joey A...like I promised. I'll post some photo's later if I can.

John Brumback, the bank pool legend and newly elected (but not yet inducted) member of the Bank Pool Hall of Fame, was gracious enough to visit for 2 days of bank pool lessons (with some one pocket strategy and technique interspersed). John was the one GIVING the lessons...just to clarify.

Willie, even tho this is the first day of the year......this might be the quote of the year for 2011!!! :) awsome.

Glad to hear you guys had a great time. Nothing like peeling back another layer of the game and seeing new possibilities!

G.
 
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