Maple shafts versus Low deflection shafts.
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
Hit and a Pick
what hole am i again?
well
low deflection shafts and maple shafts can be the same thing.
the only thing that matters is low end tip mass. to get to this low defection goal the first 5 inches or so of the shaft are hollow and a very light ferrule is put on the shaft. or in the case of the OB shaft no ferrule.
the spilces in a 314,OB,RED dot,Black dot ect... have nothing to do with the defection, and are more of a selling point.
i once heard a well know cue builder say that a normal shaft hollowed out the first five inches with no ferrule ,just a tip and pad would prolly be the lowest deflecting shaft possable
i like my shafts to be 11.75 with the taper pulled all the way back. i also think sniper tips are better then naked women on prom night
low deflection shafts and maple shafts can be the same thing.
the only thing that matters is low end tip mass. to get to this low defection goal the first 5 inches or so of the shaft are hollow and a very light ferrule is put on the shaft. or in the case of the OB shaft no ferrule.
the spilces in a 314,OB,RED dot,Black dot ect... have nothing to do with the defection, and are more of a selling point.
i once heard a well know cue builder say that a normal shaft hollowed out the first five inches with no ferrule ,just a tip and pad would prolly be the lowest deflecting shaft possable
i like my shafts to be 11.75 with the taper pulled all the way back. i also think sniper tips are better then naked women on prom night
Yes
Properties:
I think it depends who's shooting with them. It's the Indian not the arrow.
That said I like a 12-12.5 mm diameter with triangle tip, tight grain and a stiff taper.
It will be interesting to see the replies. Good Question JoeyA!
I hope you're well.
Well JoeyA ,
I must say I've tried both type of shafts and a what I enjoy shooting with is a maple shaft 13mm tip . To me that feels more comforable than low deflection shaft , the thing I noticed with low deflections shafts is the hit seems hollow with a maple shaft I can feel the hit .
I must say I've tried both type of shafts and a what I enjoy shooting with is a maple shaft 13mm tip . To me that feels more comforable than low deflection shaft , the thing I noticed with low deflections shafts is the hit seems hollow with a maple shaft I can feel the hit .
Maple shafts can be turned down in diameter to say to 11mm and the lower mass will result in low deflection.
However, there is grain in maple shafts that might make it not uniform.
Predator, OB and other segmented shafts made of maple will be more uniform in their hit regardless of rotation (any part of the tip).
:wink:
However, there is grain in maple shafts that might make it not uniform.
Predator, OB and other segmented shafts made of maple will be more uniform in their hit regardless of rotation (any part of the tip).
:wink:
well the "Low Deflection Shaft" has been for sale for 20 years now.. and we have yet to see a huge influx of novice players suddenly playing at a high level... despite the promises made to the people who bought their "magic shafts"..
truth be told.... some guy took bottom quality maple...sliced it real thin.. glued it back together.. and (get this) SELLS IT TO YOU AT A PREMIUM PRICE!!!!!
give me $200 and I promise to take the worst maple scrap I can find.. slice it up as thin as I can and glue it back together.. and you can tell your buddy.. that your plywood is worth more than his hardwood..(and you people believe that shit?)
no man ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American consumer...
truth be told.... some guy took bottom quality maple...sliced it real thin.. glued it back together.. and (get this) SELLS IT TO YOU AT A PREMIUM PRICE!!!!!
give me $200 and I promise to take the worst maple scrap I can find.. slice it up as thin as I can and glue it back together.. and you can tell your buddy.. that your plywood is worth more than his hardwood..(and you people believe that shit?)
no man ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American consumer...
I really don't know that is if the pieces on those laminates do not come from the same board or have different properties.
Also, hollowed fronts have one side effect, less feel.
OB says:
"The entire construction of the OB-1 has deviated from the conventional path. Straightness Unlike "Pie piece" laminated shafts, the OB-1 cue shaft is made up from six "stress relieved" segments. Each of these segments is made from straight grained laminated maple and machined in a manner that removes the internal stress to help insure the OB-1 cue shaft is straight and stable. "
OB also says:
"The OB Cue Shafts feature radial uniformity due to the unique construction of the blank for the OB cue shafts, the shafts have extremely consistent stiffness no matter how you rotate it. Any Flat Laminated shaft is always stiffer in one direction than the other depending on how it is rotated. What this means for you is that you don't need to rotate the cue to put a mark on the top before you shoot. "
master9baller
Banned
Predator 314
314's spin the rock, it's all about moving whitey right?
314's spin the rock, it's all about moving whitey right?
Hussa,
I m here 100% with Rufus!
Every Ball is do-able with LD or laminated/non-laminated shaft. It just depends where you re feeling more comfortable. If we are talking about advantage in performance, then i would give a *yes* towards a laminated shaft bc you need such a high acceleration on some shots to get kind of cueball-action.
But Low-Deflection can be reached with good craftmenship by a cuemaker also with non-laminated maple shafts. The End-Masse is ofc important on this point-further the taper is important. And how you reduce the End-Masse of the Ferrule......many, many ways has been *built* by the industry.
Take it, test it, feel it-- just play what s comfortable for your. You can shoot any ball with any kind of shaft.
The Cuemaker makes the music if it s around Low-Deflection (and quality of maple).
But the shot will be made by the Player
not by the company who made the shaft^^
I m here 100% with Rufus!
Every Ball is do-able with LD or laminated/non-laminated shaft. It just depends where you re feeling more comfortable. If we are talking about advantage in performance, then i would give a *yes* towards a laminated shaft bc you need such a high acceleration on some shots to get kind of cueball-action.
But Low-Deflection can be reached with good craftmenship by a cuemaker also with non-laminated maple shafts. The End-Masse is ofc important on this point-further the taper is important. And how you reduce the End-Masse of the Ferrule......many, many ways has been *built* by the industry.
Take it, test it, feel it-- just play what s comfortable for your. You can shoot any ball with any kind of shaft.
The Cuemaker makes the music if it s around Low-Deflection (and quality of maple).
But the shot will be made by the Player
not by the company who made the shaft^^I am a proponent of the Predator Z2, If you run your own tests I think the answers are self evident.
Place two balls on the foot rail 2.5 inches apart and centered on a diamond.
Place the cue ball on the same diamond line at the other end of the table.
Warm up by shooting center ball and hitting the foot rail without hitting either object ball.
I compared the two shafts on my $2,500.00 cue stick with ivory ferrules with a long Predator Z2.
My bias at the time was to prefer the original shafts because they keep the cue maker’s work in tact.
Use one to one and one half tips of offset on the cue ball and shoot to hit between the two balls on the foot rail without hitting either ball.
Mark the shafts in four position around the circumference of the shaft and shoot three shots from each mark.
Without going into a long winded discussion of each shaft I was a little disappointed to learn that the Predator shaft produced less deflection. The original shafts had more deflection but the amount of deflection varied from two opposing sides of the shafts to the other two opposing sides.
Based on the results I play with only the Predator Z2. I have placed the original shafts in storage for my grandchildren.
I changed shafts based on the results of my research not on any hype from anyone.
Place two balls on the foot rail 2.5 inches apart and centered on a diamond.
Place the cue ball on the same diamond line at the other end of the table.
Warm up by shooting center ball and hitting the foot rail without hitting either object ball.
I compared the two shafts on my $2,500.00 cue stick with ivory ferrules with a long Predator Z2.
My bias at the time was to prefer the original shafts because they keep the cue maker’s work in tact.
Use one to one and one half tips of offset on the cue ball and shoot to hit between the two balls on the foot rail without hitting either ball.
Mark the shafts in four position around the circumference of the shaft and shoot three shots from each mark.
Without going into a long winded discussion of each shaft I was a little disappointed to learn that the Predator shaft produced less deflection. The original shafts had more deflection but the amount of deflection varied from two opposing sides of the shafts to the other two opposing sides.
Based on the results I play with only the Predator Z2. I have placed the original shafts in storage for my grandchildren.
I changed shafts based on the results of my research not on any hype from anyone.
Just to be a little nit picky cause thats what I do. If you look at how bamboo fly rods are built its the same pie shape segments as OB. After the segments are glued and finished they are spun to find the spine so they can locate which segment to place the guides. One or more of the segments are stiffer than others.
For the OB to be perfect no matter how its oriented each segment must be meticulously matched with the others.
And JoeW your test is good but it only proved that the Z test shaft had less deflection than your original shafts. Even if you tested all the laminated shafts available it wouldn't prove that a solid maple shaft always has higher deflection than laminated shafts.
I'm confident that old well seasoned tight grain stock with a proper taper and short ferrule will result in LD. If LD is what you want.
RBC
Deceased
Well, I can say this.
3 or 4 years ago we were having dinner at Sullivan's after the Super Billiards Expo. It was Don Owen, my business partner, John Schmidt, myself and another very prominent European player. I won't mention his name as that would not be professional. I will say that he is one of the most known players of all time, much less from that area.
Don asked him this question. "If there was one thing that has made it more difficult for you to make a living as a pro player, what would it be?" His answer was very quick and simple. He said "Low Deflection shafts". His reasoning was that before LD shafts there was only a handful of players in the world that really had a good shot at winning any high level tournament. But now, there are hundreds.
Things are not always as they may seem!
I was not trying to determine if LD shaft are the answer for everyone. It is / was a personal problem. What should I do? I think that one of the problems with my test for purposes of generalization has to do with the idea that my original shafts have ivory ferrules which I think are heavier than traditional ferrules and this would of course contribute to the results I observed.
The results I found might not apply to every comparison and that is why I advocate that each person should run their own tests. Your mileage may vary!
Ivory ferrules are attractive but they may also be part of the problem.
I think there is a good reason for laminated shafts, based on the differences I found and this may be a more general problem. The Predator shaft also has slight deflection differences based on rotation and I play withe the label up for consistency.
The results I found might not apply to every comparison and that is why I advocate that each person should run their own tests. Your mileage may vary!
Ivory ferrules are attractive but they may also be part of the problem.
I think there is a good reason for laminated shafts, based on the differences I found and this may be a more general problem. The Predator shaft also has slight deflection differences based on rotation and I play withe the label up for consistency.
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not poking fun at your post, i've used that same "indian & arrow" analogy before, but it got me thinking;
i'd rather run into an indian with an arrow than and indian with a gun
LOL!:grin-square:
seriously though, i find my touch and weight is better with a standard maple shaft, better for the simple shots. LD shafts are nice for the tough shots though but i find consistancy with weight and touch are tougher. O think that consistancy in weight and touch much outweigh the ability to get out of a jam from time to time.
a guy should really be using multiple cues....like in golf. Hmmmmmm off to the Buy&Sell Subforum I go!!!:grin-square:
kind of a paradox of sorts really.
- people learning how to play better switch to LD shafts to help making balls easier when out of position.
- playing with LD shafts can bail a player out when they're out of position, so there may not be an emphasis on needing to play better position.