The truth about the GSBT event in Bristol TN

T

TruthWillCome

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There was another thread on this forum entitled "GSBT heist". I noticed in that thread quickly came to the defense of the GSBT. Even though most were not even at the tournament. I WAS at the tournament and I did well in it so the following is not "sour grapes". This was a 100 player field and a $1500 added tournament. As the GSBT posted in the other post, There were 21 people who paid $60 to enter ($1260), there were 71 people who paid $45 to enter ($3195), 6 were ladies who paid $30 to enter ($180), and 2 free entries for a grand total of $4635, THEN Janet Atwell added $1500 for a grand total of$6135. I repeat, $6135 total purse. THE TOURNEY PAID OUT A GRAND TOTAL OF$3520. For a difference of $2615 dollars!!!! That is correct. THEY "ADDED" $1500 BUT TOOK OUT $2615!!!!

IF YOU ADDED $1500 AND THEN TOOK OUT $2615......... THEN YOU NEVER ADDED 1500, YOU JUST TOOK OUT $1115 FROM THE ENTRIES AND HAD A NO ADDED TOURNEY!

All of these statements are FACT, not my opinion. Imagine if the US Open had a $50,000 added tournament with $50,000 in entries for a total of 100k. Then paid out a grand total of $35,000. The pool community would be laying an egg over it. Yet that is EXACTLY what happen in Bristol and people sweep it under the rug.

In closing, the GSBT had a $1500 added tournament, yet didn't even pay back the entries they took in. And also, the breakdown they gave on a standard $45 entry, $10 registration fee, $17 green fee (which the pool room does not get!) and $18 to the pot. ARE YOU SERIOUS???????????
 
is the tour you run better? oh wait, you don't run a tour, you just whine about them. hey there's another guy in another thread who says the jacoby tour has about 4 to 50 people show up. they guarantee first place a thousand bucks and it's not handicapped. you may have to play earl stickland and a few other top pros with no spot, but hey, your a math major, a tournament director, and i'm sure you must give SVB the 8, so no prob for you right;)
i wish everyone would stop crying about td's taking money to actually run the tour. i don't really care how much they take. they provide a service we all want and should have to pay for. if they paid out every nickle they took in how the f*ck do really think they are going to pay to keep the tournament going.
everyone *****es and moans the payouts aren't high enough for pro players to travel to events and afford food, lodging, etc. shouldn't that stand to reason the people running the tour should have to pay the same. no one works for free.
lastly if you don't like it don't play - same as all of the b*tching about leagues. everyone on here keeps saying here's what's wrong with pool today and then blabbering on some non sense. no. HERE"S what's wrong with pool today the hundreds of cry babies who constantly complain about the tours, come on here and berate the pros, bash the leagues. if you don't like what's out there start your own. show us all something. but i'll bet you won't.
 
Does anyone see a difference between the US Open and the GSBT? You think maybe the revenue model is a little bit different?

Keep bashing. You're the one who comes off looking bad here.
 
If they say some of the money coming out is "greens fees" and then do not give it to the room owner, then that is wrong....period!
 
It's probably the same guy that started the other thread.. Note, "they" played well but don't have the stones to say who they are.

If you are going to stand up for something, let us know who you are. These threads are getting old, I still say that Shannon and Marge seem to run a very good tour.

I can't speak for the "greens fee" issue that someone else brought up, but I always thought that went to the room owner for compensation for using their establishment. Does not matter to me who gets it as long as the tourney is run fairly, which does not seem to be an issue for the GSBT.. I'm playing in one this weekend & you'll not hear me complaining.
 
Jadssons said:
If they say some of the money coming out is "greens fees" and then do not give it to the room owner, then that is wrong....period!
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Why is that? If the owner relinquishes his greens fees to the tour operator, why should he give that away? Doesn't it still have value? Why does it matter who pockets the greens fees? The player is still paying them in order to be allowed to play. Same value propostion to the player.

If the money DID go to the house and then the house wrote a check in the same amount to the Tour Operator as a fee for bringing in players would that make everyone feel better?

I have a big problem with people trying to tell other people what is fair and what isn't. Either $60 for a possible payout of $1000 is worth it or it isn't. Sign up or don't and don't complain when someone finds a way to make money off of pool....imo.
 
MikeM said:
Why is that? If the owner relinquishes his greens fees to the tour operator, why should he give that away? Doesn't it still have value? Why does it matter who pockets the greens fees? The player is still paying them in order to be allowed to play. Same value propostion to the player.

If the money DID go to the house and then the house wrote a check in the same amount to the Tour Operator as a fee for bringing in players would that make everyone feel better?

I have a big problem with people trying to tell other people what is fair and what isn't. Either $60 for a possible payout of $1000 is worth it or it isn't. Sign up or don't and don't complain when someone finds a way to make money off of pool....imo.[/QUOTE

If it's a tournament directors fee, then call it that.
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coopersschon said:
Yeah, the room owners get nada - zero, nothing from what is stated as green fees. That's a FACT!
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and your proof is? please have a room owner, any room owner verify that. then it's a FACT. til then it's you flappin your mouth.
 
coopersschon said:
Yeah, the room owners get nada - zero, nothing from what is stated as green fees. That's a FACT!
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Jadssons said:
If they say some of the money coming out is "greens fees" and then do not give it to the room owner, then that is wrong....period!
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MOJOE said:
I can't speak for the "greens fee" issue that someone else brought up, but I always thought that went to the room owner for compensation for using their establishment. Does not matter to me who gets it as long as the tourney is run fairly, which does not seem to be an issue for the GSBT.. I'm playing in one this weekend & you'll not hear me complaining.
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The room owners know how this is structured before the event ever happens. The room owners pay nothing up front to the tour to run the event, the greens fee is part of the tour compensation for the event. Some tours charge(d) the room a set fee for running the event and the room owners had to hope for a big turnout to recoup some of their initial investment, the TD can coast and the room owner sweats it out.

Marge and Shannon approach this differently, they are the ones sweating it out because if the field is weak they have just committed to work for little or nothing. They are the ones risking not getting paid, not the room owner. The room owner agrees to add a certain amount up front to the prize fund with the assurance that their out-of-pocket ends there.

I am in no way speaking for Janet but I would bet she is very happy with how the event turned out in all aspects. I would venture to say they sold more food and drinks this weekend than they ever thought they would.
 
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All I can say is real simple. There are a million threads on here about added money vs guaranteed added money. Look at some of those threads for a few minutes. AZ has generally not liked the money not adding up. Whenever it's generic people don't want to be "screwed".

Now you put some names and faces on it and people get their hearts involved. I don't care how the fees were cut up or nothing like that, all irrelavent to me. I just know what doesn't feel good. I love those guys too but a 75% payout with added money just don't feel good.

All the tours have this problem by the way. The people who run the Midwest Tour charge a flat $1k-$2k to run the tourneys and either 10% or 15% of the calcutta. The owner eats most of that plus adds money to the tourneys, about $5k worth. Players have problems with this too.

There is no way to please pool players. I think too many people cash but thats a different argument.
 
Jadssons said:
MikeM said:
Why is that? If the owner relinquishes his greens fees to the tour operator, why should he give that away? Doesn't it still have value? Why does it matter who pockets the greens fees? The player is still paying them in order to be allowed to play. Same value propostion to the player.

If the money DID go to the house and then the house wrote a check in the same amount to the Tour Operator as a fee for bringing in players would that make everyone feel better?

I have a big problem with people trying to tell other people what is fair and what isn't. Either $60 for a possible payout of $1000 is worth it or it isn't. Sign up or don't and don't complain when someone finds a way to make money off of pool....imo.[/QUOTE

If it's a tournament directors fee, then call it that.
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Its NOT a tournament directors fee. Its a greens fee. It IS what it says it is. It costs money to play on pool tables. Nothing new. It is not your business who pockets that money.
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Ktown D said:
The room owners know how this is structured before the event ever happens. The room owners pay nothing up front to the tour to run the event, the greens fee is part of the tour compensation for the event. Some tours charge(d) the room a set fee for running the event and the room owners had to hope for a big turnout to recoup some of their initial investment, the TD can coast and the room owner sweats it out.

Marge and Shannon approach this differently, they are the ones sweating it out because if the field is weak they have just committed to work for little or nothing. They are the ones risking not getting paid, not the room owner. The room owner agrees to add a certain amount up front to the prize fund with the assurance that their out-of-pocket ends there.

I am in no way speaking for Janet but I would bet she is very happy with how the event turned out in all aspects. I would venture to say they sold more food and drinks this weekend than they ever thought they would.
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Take this to the bank!

A====>former room owner
 
PocketPoint said:
I'm just interested in what it costs to run a tour.

Gas to and from the event.
2 days at a hotel.
Website.
Tournament chart.

I can't think of anything else. I'm sure there's more.

I know some tours have sponsors, I don't know how much the sponsors give, but I'm sure it's very little.
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You forgot food.

So are you saying they should be running the event for free? As long as some of these events last, I can't imagine working for 12 - 14 hours without some kind of compensation.

If that's your opinion perhaps you understand why there aren't more high quality tournaments, tours or events in pool.


Brian in VA
 
MikeM said:
Jadssons said:
Its NOT a tournament directors fee. Its a greens fee. It IS what it says it is. It costs money to play on pool tables. Nothing new. It is not your business who pockets that money.
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If I play and think I am supporting the poolroom thinking that $10 of my entry is going to the room owner for greens fees and then I find out later it's not... Then it is very well my business because I have been deceived. I'm not saying the GSBT did this...I was not there.
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jrt30004 said:
and your proof is? please have a room owner, any room owner verify that. then it's a FACT. til then it's you flappin your mouth.
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You know it's a fact, I know it's a fact and 90% of the people on here know it's a FACT.

Now stop your flappin Jeff.

Regardless of that fact, this is the best post about this particular topic...

MikeM said:
Why is that? If the owner relinquishes his greens fees to the tour operator, why should he give that away? Doesn't it still have value? Why does it matter who pockets the greens fees? The player is still paying them in order to be allowed to play. Same value propostion to the player.

If the money DID go to the house and then the house wrote a check in the same amount to the Tour Operator as a fee for bringing in players would that make everyone feel better?
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Jadssons said:
MikeM said:
If I play and think I am supporting the poolroom thinking that $10 of my entry is going to the room owner for greens fees and then I find out later it's not... Then it is very well my business because I have been deceived. I'm not saying the GSBT did this...I was not there.
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I don't know why I'm even trying again, but one more time - You have to pay a greens fee to play in tournament (or leagues for that matter). The business arrangement of how that works is between the room owner and the TD. That is the part that is none of your business. You just pay the fee. You support the pool room by being there and buying food and drink - and tipping the wait staff well.

An illustration: I run an 8-ball league with 8 teams, we pay $3 person or $15 per table or $120 per week. I collect that money and pay the house every week. If they were to decide that because I have done a great job and fill their place up every Tuesday and want to give me their tables for free why shouldn't I be able to keep that money in exchange for all the work I do? The players are still getting the same return for their $3, it just goes into a different pocket and I for once get to make some money (I currently get $0).

KTown's rundown of how Shannon runs his tour makes me feel even stronger that he should rake all he can. He's taking all of the risk, so he should get the reward as well.
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MikeM said:
Jadssons said:
An illustration: I run an 8-ball league with 8 teams, we pay $3 person or $15 per table or $120 per week. I collect that money and pay the house every week. If they were to decide that because I have done a great job and fill their place up every Tuesday and want to give me their tables for free why shouldn't I be able to keep that money in exchange for all the work I do? The players are still getting the same return for their $3, it just goes into a different pocket and I for once get to make some money (I currently get $0).
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While this is perfectly acceptable, I do things a bit differently in the league that I run due to some past complaining about "where all the money goes" with a previous LO.

At the end of each session, each team gets its winnings in an envelop. Included in the envelop is a spreadsheet showing exactly how much money came in, how much goes out, and where it was spent. I include exactly how much I pay myself for running the league as a line item, how much goes to the house, trophies, food and drink for the awards night, everything. I also show the percentages of expenses to the total so all can see costs and their impact.

The result is that most people ask me why I don't pay myself more. :o I'm not trying to make a living at it, it's just to compensate me for the time spent. It also means I'm committed to being a good LO.

JMHO
Brian in VA
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