Who is gonna do the job?? Griffin?

Who should do the job?

  • Mark Griffin

    Votes: 33 70.2%
  • Ivan Lee

    Votes: 4 8.5%
  • Charlie Williams

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 8 17.0%

  • Total voters
    47

Jesters

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So after talking to a number of people and reading threads and posts here on the forums it seems to be the popular opinion that Mens Pro Pool need some organization. A set tour with a main sponsor, TV scheduled times, The players all recognizing and respecting the tour. Like in other sports where the NFL or NBA can fine or suspend players for bad behavior. Where the tour makes money from anything sold with its players names and images etc. The players and promoters are able to sign onto the Pro Pool Associations Health benefit program along with Life insurance and insurance for hand or eye injury. One name, one logo. With all the players united and wanting to be able to "TURN PRO" not just be able to pay $500 and play in any event you want. Have rankings. I know that right now we have the BCA points list but I am sure that can be worked out and would not change too much.

Well, all these things won't happen overnight but it has to start somewhere. Where does it start? you need a man or woman for the job to begin making it happen. The sponsors are gonna be the last on the list I'm afraid unless something big happens quick and the tour gets lucky. The players and promoters have to show that they have their shit together with a solid plan and structure to show that this is not a 6 months deal but to show its there for the long haul.

Players also have to be willing to do some of the things it takes to get the attention that the game deserves and get the general perception of all pool players are hustlers, con men, drug addicts and woman chasing Alcoholics. to the fact that most of the top 10 in the world barely drink if at all and that most of them work out and try to stay in shape and are not on drugs. Also charity events I'm not talking about anything big just good PR without the whole "Whats in it for me routine"

So Where does it start? Who will do the job? How do they get paid? You can't expect a person to work for free and you can't expect them to pay for marketing materials etc out of their own pocket and be 100% dedicated to the job unless they are just wealthy and want to do something for the game. I have a few names in mind of people that would be great for the sport and would give 100%.

To me Mark Griffin is the obvious choice. Although he is already very busy I am sure if there was a reasonable show of support from the player he could make it happen. Now I could totally understand anyone wanting the position but taking on that commitment is a big deal and the amount of flaming that person would get on here alone would be something that most would shy away from.

Well, as I write all this down I think that for the most part it is pretty basic. Just needs the support and backing of the players, promoters and fans. In Europe they have their tours/leagues for soccer sponsored I don't see why we could not have the Mueller's Tour or the Csi tour or if we want to get really ahead of ourselves the McDonalds Tour.

As I said All this would take time, results would not happen in 6 months or even a year unless things went really well.

So who should have the job??
 
I voted Mark. Not because I'm overly familiar with the other promoters,
but mainly because Mark posts here, has and keeps a level head in his posts, an understanding of what needs to be done and the knowledge to do it. Should he accept the job.

A Rotten Ronnie's Pool Tour.
Free pool action figures in every Happy Meal? Might be on to something here, Macs has the money to stand behind it.
I doubt it tho, they're more into Ronald MacDonald houses and such. Altho, I'm quite sure that the Beeg Mac is pretty much a staple of any road player.
I'm scheming now, how about, "The Road Players Special Sandwich".
"The "Kickin Chicken Sandwich" Used with permission from Brian.
 
Last edited:
I think about this all the time.

All comes down to money. No one is going to work together just to try and build something. Too many ego's, too much history. For a group to have any chance at success the players would have basically submit themselves to the will of the organization. That organization would have to have the up front money to make the players willing to work together and compromise.. That won't happen. Everyone is positive they have the way to run things. No one actually has the money.

No one is going to put the time and money into running a player organization unless they have a serious chance of making a profit or gaining from it. God forbid. Some players would automatically reject it out of hand due to the fact someone might actually make some money years down the road. Smart ones would see it is the only way forward to build something for the future. Until the latter players out number the former nothing in this country will ever change.

I was in a meeting with many of the top players when Mark Griffin was talking about putting $250,000 into a pro tour. One of the elder statesmen players was standing beside me and said "All he is talking about is a bunch of $25,000 added events." He said it as if it was beneath him to pay attention to such an offer. This is a guy many pro's listen to and view as a smart guy. I knew then the whole plan had no shot to succeed. I don't see how much has changed.

In that meeting a guy was offering up a solid years worth of events and all the guys would of had to do was pull together and do some sponsorship activities. None of them were interested because all they could focus on was someone having the nerve to try and run things. The guy who was putting up all the money. That meeting opened my eyes all the way to pool in the US. I havent expected anything more than what there is since then. I havent been disappointed either.

It will have to hit absolute rock bottom before anything happens. Maybe we are there. I don't know.
 
Kevin Trudeau, imo.

With all the speculation he is as good as anyone, I think the point was missed completely with this thread because no single individual can make the changes Pro-pool needs long term.

I kinda think unity is the solution, unity between promoters, unity among players, and unity throughout this entire industry on some level.

JIMO
 
Thats an eye opener Justin. Can't get any straighter than that.
If thats the situation and I'm sure its exactly as you saw it that day, not much use then is there?
Thanks.
 
I should mention something because I don't want it to come off like I am bashing players. I make my living working with pro players. Almost all of them are great to work with. They are understanding about us being a small company and doing the best we can to give them the best deal we can. I am honest with them, treat them with respect and so far to a man they have responded in kind.

I know its possible to create something from nothing with the pro's. We have done it. We did it by being open and honest. Sometimes guys say "So and so offered me this to go do xyz." I tell them the truth. "Then you should go do that and good luck. I cant match it." Even when things don't work out we always part on good terms. I say all this to try and make the point it's not just the players who keep a broad organization from happening. They will work with people they trust not to screw them over.

One thing I have noticed is whenever they get together in a large group there are three or four who always seem to step up and want to speak for the rest and for some reason this seems to be accepted. These three or four seem to have some high expectations for any group or person trying to start any type of organization. High enough as to be unreasonable in the cases I have witnessed. At this point is generally when things sort of fade away and everything winds up back to normal.

I dont think its insurmountable. But it will not be easy either.
 
Hard to do when anyone can start their own tour up. Someone doesn't like the way it's run... let's go start "The Seminole Tour"! Don't like that? Let's you and me go start something with Predator! I know ...let's have our tournaments on the same dates as theirs! Yea!
 
Thats an eye opener Justin. Can't get any straighter than that.
If thats the situation and I'm sure its exactly as you saw it that day, not much use then is there?
Thanks.

Thats the way I saw it and heard it. I have no doubt others there have a different point of view and I am sure they have their reasons. I just know it shocked me.
 
I believe it Justin. You have a level head, evident by your posts here, have a decent understanding of the pool world due to your position and job and privy to more things than the rest of us on AZ.
I think its sad as well. The part that 4 players whom others look up to seem to be running the show. The fact that their personal feelings might have a detrimental impact on how things could be as opposed to how they are and at whos expense?
 
Hard to do when anyone can start their own tour up. Someone doesn't like the way it's run... let's go start "The Seminole Tour"! Don't like that? Let's you and me go start something with Predator! I know ...let's have our tournaments on the same dates as theirs! Yea!
I would think that the Tour would decide what were ranking events and also make 100% sure that the money was there so no more slow or no pays from promoters. So all promoters can have their regional tours and if they can show the money and the money has the right amount added it can be part of the tour. The players that are part of the tour must play in all the tour events. If there is no tour even one weekend then the players can play in whatever they want. Thats a tour.

Oh, I vote for Griffin.
 
Unity in the sense of lots of competition like cable tv creates an environment with lots of specialty channels. I hear the east coast has more straight pool players than other areas except Germany. I think the Midwest has the bank pool players. If the regional players just play to their strengths it would be like the cable version of pool in America. When I first got interested in pool I had no idea what is what, but based on the events I know the Midwest has banks events, northeast coast has straight pool events and I haven't gotten south or west coast yet.

So what if there is more competition, at least it brings in new ideas and lets the older organizers evaluate and maybe adapt them. I know since I became a league player my game has gotten a lot sharper than if I was just practicing on my table. Same goes for the billiards industry people have to see what they do well and what they can improve on. I don't have the cash to invest on a big selling idea, but I will post fan created billiard content.

I do know I want to play in a banks league or potential a one pocket league there should even be a kick league. What league play has spoiled me to is good competition.
 
So far 31 votes. I'm not gonna vote because I don't know them or what they have done. I only know Charlie Williams as a player. Why no votes for him?
 
So far 31 votes. I'm not gonna vote because I don't know them or what they have done. I only know Charlie Williams as a player. Why no votes for him?
I would think the only reason he may have been put in there is because he started and ran the UPA for a while. JMO
 
Pro Tour

The real problem with getting a tour started is they always try to get the top players together and want them to agree on a format for a tour.
BIG MISTAKE; most of these guys want what's best for them and the hell with anyone else. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and run with it. My vote would be Mark Griffin, but he needs help. I suggest Mark get together with the Seminole Tribe + one money man. How about John Mars? He has to love pool and he could put up a million dollars without blinking and eye.
Come up with a 3 year plan to have 8 to 10 tour events around the country and yearly final event in Vegas. Keep the tour in the USA, players will come. Mark has been around pool long enough as a player and business man that he can put it all together. Most important thing; Do not ask player input! Do your own thing and if they want to play they can and if not, the hell with them. There will be plenty of players in the events that a few people will emerge as stars.
It will take leadership but it can happen.:)
 
One thing I have noticed is whenever they get together in a large group there are three or four who always seem to step up and want to speak for the rest and for some reason this seems to be accepted. These three or four seem to have some high expectations for any group or person trying to start any type of organization. High enough as to be unreasonable in the cases I have witnessed. At this point is generally when things sort of fade away and everything winds up back to normal.


JCIN,

Perhaps the failure of pro pool can be traced directly to those three or four. Perhaps it is only what is in their best interests, not the group at large. Doubt very highly there is anyone who can startup and run a pro tour today. How many Kevin Trudeau's can there be? Our lives are too full of instant gratification. Taking several years to make a tour go is not what is in most promoters future. How can a tour succeed, if year after year, the single most prestigious American Pro event can't payoff all the players at it's conclusion? Maybe its time to drop the curtain and just let the thought of a pro tour fade away!

Lyn
 
Back
Top